British to Renege of NI Protocol?

Junkyard Tom

loughside wrote: »

If we dont...

If Britain doesn't get a deal then it will suffer serious economic harm. Ireland will be okay, we're part of the most prosperous trading bloc in the World. Unionists should thankful for the all-Ireland protections Dublin secured.

steddyeddy

I work for the US dept of Energy so I'm regularly in contact with colleagues over there. I'm amazed at the amount of anger that I'm hearing about this from them.

This is echoed by Nancy Pelosi who opened her remarks with "what were they thinking"?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PER_lYm_eYA

I can't overemphasise the fact that this makes the UK into a rouge state that breaks international treaties.

fash

steddyeddy wrote: »

I work for the US dept of Energy so I'm regularly in contact with colleagues over there. I'm amazed at the amount of anger that I'm hearing about this from them.

This is echoed by Nancy Pelosi who opened her remarks with "what were they thinking"?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PER_lYm_eYA

I can't overemphasise the fact that this makes the UK into a rouge state that breaks international treaties.

You should be telling them "congratulations! you have now completed the introduction to 900 years of Anglo-Irish relations!"

Smiles35

steddyeddy wrote: »

I can't overemphasise the fact that this makes the UK into a rouge state that breaks international treaties.

I've said this on this thread before. Big treaties have been torn up and thrown away before. If you put it aside. It's some internal trade technicality relying on the norths strange status within the U.K. It's just Boris rocking the boat.

feargale

Cork_Guest wrote: »

And some Irish people have too long a memory. It’s time to move on and work towards a better tomorrow, not keep harping on about the Brits this and the Brits that as any reason to stoke up hate.
We were no saints and while the Allies were off fighting a war we stayed ‘neutral’ in, we were in cahoots with the Nazis trying to get them in behind them in exchange for weapons.

Saying " we" were in cahoots with the Nazis is utter bulls**t. Some Irish were. If you belong with them by all means say " we" including yourself. Our neutrality was biased towards the Allies in stark contrast to that of Sweden and Switzerland. Yes it's time to move on, but there are a few Brits who still harp on about Ireland's WW2 neutrality. For some reason the same people never talk of Sweden or Switzerland nor do they berate us for standing aside from Suez 1956, or Malaya and Kenya in the same decade.

steddyeddy

feargale wrote: »

Saying " we" were in cahoots with the Nazis is utter bulls**t. Some Irish were. If you belong with them by all means say " we" including yourself. Our neutrality was biased towards the Allies in stark contrast to that of Sweden and Switzerland. Yes it's time to move on, but there are a few Brits who still harp on about Ireland's WW2 neutrality. For some reason the same people never talk of Sweden or Switzerland nor do they berate us for standing aside from Suez 1956, or Malaya and Kenya in the same decade.

Indeed, far more prominent British people were in league with the Nazis, including Edward VIII, the once king of England.

forgottenhills

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Dear Loughside, we are not Helen. This is Boards.ie

Also, there are no such things as Unionist Rights.

This is a despicable thing to say. Luckily it does not represent the view of the vast majority of Irish people but just a looney Republican mindset, unfortunately one that seems to be over-represented on this forum.

As an aside it is interesting that many do not worry about an equality of rights when it comes to Brexit. Consider the fact that people suggest that no way should there be any customs infrastructure introduced to the ROI/NI border but sure its grand that customs infrastructure should be introduced on the NI/GB border. Hardly a rational attitude or a "parity of esteem" when you think about with any sort of independent mindset.

Having said that the British government signed the WA and shouldn't be threatening to tear it up, whether as a negotiating ploy or not. But reading their chief negotiator David Frost's Tweets from over the weekend it is a little more clear why they are taking this extreme (and wrong) step rather than trying to change the WA as part of a negotiated trade agreement. It is clear that the EU have been playing hardball in negotiations over areas like awarding the UK a 3rd country listing and fish. The UK have lashed out in response but their response, although it may see some short term EU pullbacks in current negotiations, will very likely be counter productive in the medium/long term and in the propaganda war.

But the situation is more nuanced that many posters on here think and a hard Brexit plus trade war outcome will be horrible for this country as well as the UK, so we shouldn't be cheering on such an outcome.

Junkyard Tom

forgottenhills wrote: »

people suggest that no way should there be any customs infrastructure introduced to the ROI/NI border but sure its grand that customs infrastructure should be introduced on the NI/GB border. Hardly a rational attitude or a "parity of esteem" when you think about with any sort of independent mindset.

Maybe your 'independent mindset' would consider 'False Equivalence'. Nobody lives in the Irish Sea, nobody commutes across the Irish Sea daily, no towns, properties, farms, or gardens, begin in Ireland and end in Britain.

New Era

Watching the events in the House of Commons with keen interest. Former Labour party leader, Ed Miliband is putting a very strong and robust counter argument against the controversial internal market bill. Starmer is absent, as he is in self isolation, as he was in close contact with a individual displaying covid symptoms.

As for Bo Jo......The less said about his contribution the better.

Any chance that the PM could face political humiliation and doesn't get his way when the key votes are voted on tonight? Very interesting few hours await and in particular how many Tory rebels will defy BoJo.

forgottenhills

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Maybe your 'independent mindset' would consider 'False Equivalence'. Nobody lives in the Irish Sea, nobody commutes across the Irish Sea daily, no towns, properties, farms, or gardens, begin in Ireland and end in Britain.

Maybe, but any decent customs infrastructure set up on the border shouldnt have much if any impact on commuter traffic and secondly the value of trade going to/from Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK is about three times the trade with the Irish Republic.

gmisk

New Era wrote: »

Watching the events in the House of Commons with keen interest. Former Labour party leader, Ed Miliband is putting a very strong and robust counter argument against the controversial internal market bill. Starmer is absent, as he is in self isolation, as he was in close contact with a individual displaying covid symptoms.

As for Bo Jo......The less said about his contribution the better.

Any chance that the PM could face political humiliation and doesn't get his way when the key votes are voted on tonight? Very interesting few hours await and in particular how many Tory rebels will defy BoJo.

He is an embarrassment no doubt but 80 majority I think? They won't lose the vote but I would expect a decent amount of abstentions maybe 40+ on the tory side

gmisk

Naomi long from the alliance party speaking sense as per usual!
https://twitter.com/allianceparty/status/1305124949577920518?s=19

Unsurprisingly Arlene has rowed in behind the PM

declanflynn

What time is the vote at

FrancieBrady

declanflynn wrote: »

What time is the vote at

Around 10pm apparently

MadYaker

They have an 80 seat majority the vote is a done deal

gmisk

This clip is so embrassing and sums up how clueless Johnson is
https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1305543169380093952?s=09

saabsaab

Borris is setting himself up with a great excuse if/when things go wrong with the Brexit, he can blame the EU for causing the trouble and what's more many will believe it. His pals in 'the city' will make a killing even if the ordinary man suffers.

Certain elements in Britain still believe that Ireland is theirs.





See below about 26 mins in..a certain Tory mindset in all its glory..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDa505kpXO0&t=1257s

FGR

I'm sure it's been asked a dozen times already but there's so many posts and threads that I hope someone will oblige me with this one -

Many articles I've read have suggested that if the UK plays ball and withdraws this bill and get back to the negotiating table that they'll be able to secure a free trade deal.

If they get a full on free trade deal with goods/services and no longer have to worry about free movement of people - would that not be exactly what they wanted and spur a lot of other EU nations to consider their membership given that the UK will have its cake and eat it too?

I'm sure this is probably too simplistic - but unless the EU charges tariffs or an annual fee to the UK in exchange for access to the common market then I can't see how this is good news for EU solidarity?

GazzaL

FGR wrote: »

I'm sure it's been asked a dozen times already but there's so many posts and threads that I hope someone will oblige me with this one -

Many articles I've read have suggested that if the UK plays ball and withdraws this bill and get back to the negotiating table that they'll be able to secure a free trade deal.

If they get a full on free trade deal with goods/services and no longer have to worry about free movement of people - would that not be exactly what they wanted and spur a lot of other EU nations to consider their membership given that the UK will have its cake and eat it too?

I'm sure this is probably too simplistic - but unless the EU charges tariffs or an annual fee to the UK in exchange for access to the common market then I can't see how this is good news for EU solidarity?

They won't get a trade deal equivalent to all the benefits of EU membership with none of the cost.

JohnnyFlash

Colum Eastwood is a great public representative.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Colum Eastwood is a great public representative.

Has he stopped Brexit yet? What's keeping him?

fash

FGR wrote: »

I'm sure it's been asked a dozen times already but there's so many posts and threads that I hope someone will oblige me with this one -

Many articles I've read have suggested that if the UK plays ball and withdraws this bill and get back to the negotiating table that they'll be able to secure a free trade deal.

If they get a full on free trade deal with goods/services and no longer have to worry about free movement of people - would that not be exactly what they wanted and spur a lot of other EU nations to consider their membership given that the UK will have its cake and eat it too?

I'm sure this is probably too simplistic - but unless the EU charges tariffs or an annual fee to the UK in exchange for access to the common market then I can't see how this is good news for EU solidarity?

Although they aren't looking for a full access deal (no services for example), even so, you are correct in principle: the EU cannot be seen to give in the blackmail- because the EU has other concerns to worry about. If the EU gives in to blackmail in relation to the UK- where does it stand vis-a-vis Russia, China, Turkey or Trump?

It's the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" thing - if you do recognize it as a legitimate negotiation technique, you encourage terrorism - from the UK and others.

Furthermore, how do you continue in a business or any relationship with someone who reneges on his undertakings? How do you trust someone who reneges on his undertakings when he sees an immediate advantage (from his perspective)?
Are you going to be more generous than you need to be in anything? If he says "I'm good for it, you can trust me" - would you?

steddyeddy

The majority of British voters are now complicit in the UK breaking international law.

When I lived in England I heard about the IRA ad nauseam from people who had no idea that British actions contributed to their support. This is a good example of this. They've undermined peace in Ireland and will hopefully be subject to dire economic consequences.

Hobgoblin11

It looks like the repartition of northern Ireland may be the only solution if britain reneges

Jizique

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

It looks like the repartition of northern Ireland may be the only solution if britain reneges

How does that work when there is no unionist majority? When Belfast city council is now “nationalist” controlled?
The Unionist Fiefdom of Lisburn, Larne, Ballymena, Bangor and Nowtownards? Doubt it somehow

85603

because he is a walking lie, he initially sides with the people he plans to later screw.


if bojo is on your side its just a matter of time.
if i was a unionist id be very worried right now. last minute heel turns are his thing.

Hamsterchops

Jizique wrote: »

How does that work when there is no unionist majority? When Belfast city council is now “nationalist” controlled?
The Unionist Fiefdom of Lisburn, Larne, Ballymena, Bangor and Nowtownards? Doubt it somehow

Makes no difference, as Northern Ireland in its totality (is an integral part of the UK) as recognised by international law. (Majority rules & all that jazz).

Macron should go for a long walk off a short plank if he's trying to be "smart" with his Northern Ireland is not part of the UK" comment. Here on this side of the border we know only too well that it is part of the UK because don't we yearn for them to leave the UK > and to become one with us ... and that day hasn't come yet Mr Macron.

I guess he is just trying to rile & fluster Boris :pac:

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Makes no difference, as Northern Ireland in its totality (is an integral part of the UK) as recognised by international law. (Majority rules & all that jazz).

Macron should go for a long walk off a short plank if he's trying to be "smart" with his Northern Ireland is not part of the UK" comment. We know only too well that it's part of the UK because don't we yearn for them to leave the UK > and to become one with us, and that day hasn't come yet Mr Macron.

I guess Macron is just trying to rile & fluster Boris :pac:

That was Dominic Raab (we know what his grasp of things is like) view of what was said. The French say something different. He simply pointed out that Ireland is a different country and not the same relationship as Paris and Toulouse, which is d'oh, why there is a Protocol.

Which is entirely correct. Raab playing to the rabble again.

saabsaab

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That was Dominic Raab (we know what his grasp of things is like) view of what was said. The French say something different. He simply pointed out that Ireland is a different country and not the same relationship as Paris and Toulouse, which is d'oh, why there is a Protocol.

Which is entirely correct. Raab playing to the rabble again.

I'm sure much can be changed in translation.

FrancieBrady

saabsaab wrote: »

I'm sure much can be changed in translation.

The British have been ramping up the 'Us v Johnny Foreigner' rethoric since the start. The usual crew have fallen for Raab spinning like a top.