To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

xhomelezz

Btw that picture was posted here multiple times without any knowledge about it.

Edit: about masks.

CalamariFritti

Ye changing from silly masks to FFP2 or whatever is really going to turn this thing around now. yay.

Seanergy

AlekSmart wrote: »

Looks like the 'Merican lust for multiple masks will soon wash up on our shores so if we can add to that it will be beneficial....

That was last months hotchat, you've a good few pages of the thread to browse through to get up to speed. Just shotgun culture stuff.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Ye changing from silly masks to FFP2 or whatever is really going to turn this thing around now. yay.

The majority on here fully understand the public are not in a position to be hoarding FFP2/"or whatever" from HCW's and that we should continue to follow WHO advice.

Therre is room for people to improve and and to purchase or make based on material type and fit.

xhomelezz

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Ye changing from silly masks to FFP2 or whatever is really going to turn this thing around now. yay.

Lol, you are back. Any suggestions how to turn things around?

Away With The Fairies

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And what does that do for the bacteria that masks fill up with?

I wear my mask for about 10 minutes in the shop. So not huge amounts of bacteria on my own mask. I re-use the mask about 3 times, with once a week shopping. That's half an hour of use. And they are designed to be worn for about 8 hours.

AlekSmart

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Ye changing from silly masks to FFP2 or whatever is really going to turn this thing around now. yay.

Jeepers,lets not get carried away with this thing....our Leglislation defines the Face Covering as...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/296/made/en/print

“face covering” means a covering of any type which when worn by a person covers the person’s nose and mouth;

So,it's open season on inventiveness and application....

https://cdn-japantimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/np_file_53416.jpeg

The diamond masks are embellished with a 0.7 carat diamond and more than 300 pieces of Swarovski crystal, while the pearl masks contain some 330 Japanese Akoya pearls.

Silly.....but Pretty ?

Seanergy

Good article about the FFP3 downgrade in masks that happened in UK last March. BBC LINK

On 13 March the advisory committee ruled coronavirus would no longer be defined as "high consequence".

The exact reasons for the decision have not been made public.

A government statement a few days later said it was a "technical" definition that simply reflected the fact that the death rate from the virus was much less severe than expected - far lower than Ebola, for example, where as many as 50% of infected people die.

In any event, the decision acted like a lubricant to the cogs of government.

The Department for Health and Social Care was said to be "moving towards" a shift from FFP3 masks to surgical ones, and a rapid sequence of events then made that happen:

An investigation by the National Audit Office (NAO) found that the national stockpile did not hold all the PPE it was meant to.

And it was designed for a flu pandemic, not one with a coronavirus, so the focus was more on protecting against infection spread by droplets and less on infectious aerosols contaminating the air in stuffy rooms.

So there were relatively few of the aerosol-filtering FFP3 masks - and a similar but less effective type known as FFP2.

By April there was a total of 26.3 million of these two categories of mask which was enough to last just two months.

Plus six million had passed their expiry date and had to be tested and relabelled.

amandstu

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0211/1196415-world-covid/

"Two masks, snug fit reduces Covid-19 spread - US study"

Irresponsible now not to follow this procedure?

Irish Stones

amandstu wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0211/1196415-world-covid/

"Two masks, snug fit reduces Covid-19 spread - US study"

Irresponsible now not to follow this procedure?

I saw other articles on the same subject, and I thought, why not a triple mask, or even four masks?
Sounds like a way to double up mask sellings.

amandstu

Irish Stones wrote: »

I saw other articles on the same subject, and I thought, why not a triple mask, or even four masks?
Sounds like a way to double up mask sellings.

Sure ,you nailed it . Obvious innit?

Away With The Fairies

Irish Stones wrote: »

I saw other articles on the same subject, and I thought, why not a triple mask, or even four masks?
Sounds like a way to double up mask sellings.

The reasoning behind two masks is wear a surgical mask and then a face covering over it so that it seals the gaps at the sides. Makes perfect sense.

amandstu

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

The reasoning behind two masks is wear a surgical mask and then a face covering over it so that it seals the gaps at the sides. Makes perfect sense.

Are there any face coverings that would work better at this than others?

Are any adjustable at all?

Graham

amandstu wrote: »

"Two masks, snug fit reduces Covid-19 spread - US study"

Irresponsible now not to follow this procedure?

I think that's a stretch to be honest.

In the tests where both source/receiver wear knotted & tucked masks, the level of protection appears to be about the same as double masking.

The conclusion for the US is likely to be different to here. There's a greater chance of either one of the sender/receiver being unmasked in the US. In this case a double mask makes a noticeable difference to exposure levels compared to both an unknotted or knotted/tucked mask.

AlekSmart

Irish Stones wrote: »

I saw other articles on the same subject, and I thought, why not a triple mask, or even four masks?
Sounds like a way to double up mask sellings.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

The reasoning behind two masks is wear a surgical mask and then a face covering over it so that it seals the gaps at the sides. Makes perfect sense.

Given that the article is careful to mention how these are Laboratory Tests I would be reluctant to cheerlead for Multiple Masks being any form of realistic proposal for the Common Man to embrace.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0211/1196415-world-covid/

Making sure a mask fits snugly on the face and use of two masks is likely to significantly reduce a person's exposure to the coronavirus, laboratory experiments described by US health officials showed.

The US Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in January conducted experiments to see how well wearing a cloth mask over a three-ply medical procedure mask, and knotting the ear loops of a surgical mask and then tucking the excess material close to the face, protects against Covid-19.

They found that both these methods helped reduce the exposure to potentially infected aerosols by more than 90% in laboratory simulations.

A quick ramble around the parish will soon give one a sense of how ordinary people wear masks,and it's certainly not to any Laboratory standard.

Away With The Fairies

AlekSmart wrote: »

Given that the article is careful to mention how these are Laboratory Tests I would be reluctant to cheerlead for Multiple Masks being any form of realistic proposal for the Common Man to embrace.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0211/1196415-world-covid/



A quick ramble around the parish will soon give one a sense of how ordinary people wear masks,and it's certainly not to any Laboratory standard.

You do know what a laboratory can do? They stimulate their ideas in the lab and record their findings. Their findings show that double masking can reduce exposure to covid. Surely that's worth a go? And we don't need any laboratory equipment or anything fancy. Just two masks. It makes perfect sense. Surgical mask and then a face covering over it to give a better fit.

Away With The Fairies

So, other European countries are going for N95 masks. USA with double masking. What are we going with?

Seanergy

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So, other European countries are going for N95 masks. USA with double masking. What are we going with?

Be very surpirsed if mask guidance changed here. It will take a new variant for the HSE to up their game on mask advice. We are truly lost in a half arsed response, wondering around wearing masks to a droplet standard.

Still not mandatory for masks to be worn in Hospital's and health care settings.

Didn't see this article posted in thread, so I've included it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/sean-moncrieff-they-re-idiots-leave-it-by-the-time-i-sit-down-again-i-m-speechlessly-angry-1.4471045

amandstu

Here is a video instruction for hacking a surgical mask for a better fit -and likely greatly enhanced protection (also helps with steaming glasses it seems)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Y26UGulrI



Found it by googling "knotted and tied" mask in Youtube from this RTE article

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0211/1196415-world-covid/

runawaybishop

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So, other European countries are going for N95 masks. USA with double masking. What are we going with?

Personally I have an N95 mask, I don't need to wait for the government to suggest one.

Seanergy

AGS Mask fines @ 80 euro

2020 16
2021 JAN 82
2021 FEB 29

Seanergy

So 2.2% of all fines to date were for the non wearing of face coverings.

Seanergy

Doctors blame virus outbreaks on shopper's complacency

Dublin GP Dr Angela Parvu says patients have said their only trips out are for groceries.

‘People need to be refused entry to shops if they don’t wear masks properly and ­sanitise’ LINK

Blame being put on shoppers but zero questioning of HSE mask policy that allows staff to operate maskless behind shabby perspec screens.

Away With The Fairies

Seanergy wrote: »

Doctors blame virus outbreaks on shopper's complacency

Dublin GP Dr Angela Parvu says patients have said their only trips out are for groceries.

‘People need to be refused entry to shops if they don’t wear masks properly and ­sanitise’ LINK

Blame being put on shoppers but zero questioning of HSE mask policy that allows staff to operate maskless behind shabby perspec screens.

Was in a shop last weekend, myself with a kn95 and goggles, hoping it gives me protection because I walked down one aisle and saw two people, I don't think they were together and both of them maskless.

I don't think it can all be blamed on shops though. I pass by a restaurant that's open for take-away and staff are maskless. And why wouldn't they be, they aren't mandatory for restaurant workers at all and we're still going on about distancing.

Seanergy

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Was in a shop last weekend........... and saw two people, I don't think they were together and both of them maskless.

I don't think it can all be blamed on shops though......

It is not all being blamed on shops. The headline was reckless and the article was fairly poor.

The doctor in question, is HSE, she attributed all the blame from her Covid+ masked patients who had been nowhere but the shops, on shoppers and and objects other shoppers touched, didn't buy and put back on the shelf.

The other possible contributing factors the HSE doctor omitted were the more obvious staff who operate full shifts with faceshields and staff who operate full shifts behind perspecs without masks on. Not to mention all the objects staff touch.

Duncan Graham, managing director of Retail Excellence, said: “The number of cases that can officially be traced back to retail are very few.

“Retailers invested heavily to make sure shops are as safe as possible. Most retailers have done everything they can do to make their premises safe. The vast majority of retailers are taking this very seriously.”

Safe by HSE standards.

Miike

runawaybishop wrote: »

Personally I have an N95 mask, I don't need to wait for the government to suggest one.

Is it one of the microwavable / oven ones?

ginoginelli

Seanergy wrote: »

It is not all being blamed on shops. The headline was reckless and the article was fairly poor.

The doctor in question, is HSE, she attributed all the blame from her Covid+ masked patients who had been nowhere but the shops, on shoppers and and objects other shoppers touched, didn't buy and put back on the shelf.

The other possible contributing factors the HSE doctor omitted were the more obvious staff who operate full shifts with faceshields and staff who operate full shifts behind perspecs without masks on. Not to mention all the objects staff touch.

Duncan Graham, managing director of Retail Excellence, said: “The number of cases that can officially be traced back to retail are very few.

“Retailers invested heavily to make sure shops are as safe as possible. Most retailers have done everything they can do to make their premises safe. The vast majority of retailers are taking this very seriously.”

Safe by HSE standards.

Its bonkers. I've visited different hospitals over the past few months. The receptionists never had masks on behind screens. Cleaners and nurses walking around with masks around their chins.

Its beyond belief.

CalamariFritti

I suggest one possible explanation - masks dont make a difference and the people in healthcare know it?

Miike

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I suggest one possible explanation - masks dont make a difference and the people in healthcare know it?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm

Results from the first experiment demonstrated that the unknotted medical procedure mask alone blocked 56.1% of the particles from a simulated cough (standard deviation [SD] = 5.8), and the cloth mask alone blocked 51.4% (SD = 7.1). The combination of the cloth mask covering the medical procedure mask (double mask) blocked 85.4%of the cough particles (SD = 2.4),the knotted and tucked medical procedure mask blocked 77.0% (SD = 3.1)

Away With The Fairies

Miike wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm

Had to laugh at the pictures and the nylon covering over your mask. I remember at the beginning of all this, another boards poster, I don't remember who said the exact same thing talking about some nylon stockings. Boards had this info first.

Miike

Miike wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm

Just want to tack on here (based on the CDC's recommendations)

Something I've been doing for some time if I'm using surgical masks only. Really improves the fit and feel of the mask. Their own research as linked in the quoted comment suggests a large improvement in source control.