To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

riclad

riclad wrote: »

It's a scientific fact wearing a mask greatly reduces the chance of getting the virus . The virus enters the body thru the nose or mouth. I wear a mask to protect you you wear a mask to protect
yourself and others. You should wear a mask in shops any building and on the street
Someone who says masks so not work, well it's like saying
Most people have to go to shops to buy food at some point
Even on the street you should wear a mask
There s not many people who wish to stay at home 24,7
Most people go for a walk or go to a shop
there's no need for seat belts or
Condoms are a waste of money they do not protect against stds
I understand young people think ah sure its not a big deal
I'm gonna live for ever
And right now there's maybe 100s of people
who have covid but do not know it
Eg they may have mild symptoms or no symptoms
I see people walking on the street with kids
and they are not wearing a mask
You could get it on the street standing in a queue
waiting for a traffic light to change
Many people have given up on social distancing

Google long covid if you think it's not serious or it doesn't
effect young people who get it

And things will get better in a few months we,ll all have the jab

Dr Jay Bhattacharya said in an interview a few months ago that something similar to long covid happens with the flu. He said his son got the flu a few years ago and woke up one day and couldn't walk. He described how the flu has all kinds of side effects, and how it can have cardiac side effects. He and the interviewer, also a doctor, said that "these things happen with viral infections ... and yet we are spinning it as though the world is ending."

The interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_COvdCujaA

They were not saying that covid was the flu, but that the flu and viral infections also have side effects.

riclad

Are you saying you have the right to put other peoples life at risk by not wearing a mask on a bus or a train because wearing a mask is restrictive .
comparing the flu to covid is pointless and dangerous,
very few people die from the flu,
the covid virus has killed 500,000 people in america.

its like saying getting hit by a 5 year old kid on a scooter is like getting run over by
a train or a truck.

i get a cold every 2 years in december , it lasts a week or 2 and its gone.
most non essential shops and pubs and theatres are closed in ireland and the uk .
i have never heard of any shop closing because someone got the flu.
the reason for this is because covid is deadly and easy transmitted
through air particles .

CalamariFritti

Whatever. This is the fkn 'its-not-rocket-science' nutbag thread, we knew that. Not sure why I'm even doing this to myself, must have felt a little bored earlier, looking for argument I'm too bored to have. Can I please have a threadban?

xhomelezz

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Whatever. This is the fkn 'its-not-rocket-science' nutbag thread, we knew that. Not sure why I'm even doing this to myself, must have felt a little bored earlier, looking for argument I'm too bored to have. Can I please have a threadban?

Finally some reasonable idea. As far as I remember, you are second person on this thread volunteering for a threadban

railer201

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Whatever. This is the fkn 'its-not-rocket-science' nutbag thread, we knew that. Not sure why I'm even doing this to myself, must have felt a little bored earlier, looking for argument I'm too bored to have. Can I please have a threadban?

No, you're too amusing :)

riclad

Yes covid is a virus,
Most virus, s do not kill millions of people and cause the global economy to shut down
It's like say bill Gates is slightly better off in money terms than Joe bloggs who works in Tesco for 400 euro
Covid has long lasting serous effects on one's health
We are under lock down because the virus is deadly
and easily transmitted thru the air

Most people recover from a cold in 2 weeks after taking
lemsip and a few bowls of hot soup
I was in a supermarket 2 days ago
There was 2 men in the queue with a mask on
Hanging down on the chin
Not covering the mouth or the nose
How fffing stupid do you need to be to not know
How to wear a mask properly in a crowded
Building
You are putting your life in danger
The reason to wear a mask is to protect yourself
and to protect others

Like there's a law against drink driving or driving under the influence of drugs
At this point i. Ll have to go to the supermarket at 9am
to avoid people who are selfish idiots

Yes the flu can have side effects mostly in older people over 50 but I see no point in talking
about it in the middle of a pandemic
I have never heard of a shop or a pub closing
cos someone got the flu

patnor1011

xhomelezz wrote: »

As I said, absolutely nothing to back up that claim.

Just open your eyes.
The Slovak Republic is one of the most strict mandatory mask regimes in the world. They are required even outdoors, everywhere you move with police and army patrolling streets and giving fines to people who do not wear them.
People have to wear a respirator mask, those fabric nonsense from 2 euro shops you see here are a no-go over there.
Still one of the hardest-hit countries topping the list of covid deaths.

Masks simply make no real difference.

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Just open your eyes.
The Slovak Republic is one of the most strict mandatory mask regimes in the world. They are required even outdoors, everywhere you move with police and army patrolling streets and giving fines to people who do not wear them.
People have to wear a respirator mask, those fabric nonsense from 2 euro shops you see here are a no-go over there.
Still one of the hardest-hit countries topping the list of covid deaths.

Masks simply make no real difference.

Exactly. The standard answers to the problem of countries with strict mask laws such as Spain, Italy, France et al having more deaths and case numbers than mask-free countries like Sweden (and Norway to a slightly lesser extent) and mask-free states in America is that 'people don't wear them properly', 'masks lessen the chance of infection' and 'are you seriously suggesting masks don't work?'.

And 'wearing masks during a pandemic' is a reasonable position to hold. I don't think they do much, but it's a reasonable position to hold. But where in the Government's plan is there anything about them being scrapped? There's no level 0 in the Government's plan. In Scotland's roadmap mask-wearing is a feature of level 0 believe it or not.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

where in the Government's plan is there anything about them being scrapped? There's no level 0 in the Government's plan.

From that we can assume one of two things.

1) masks will be mandatory until the end of time.
2) it's just not in the plan

I'd suggest 2) is the more obvious.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

From that we can assume one of two things.

1) masks will be mandatory until the end of time.
2) it's just not in the plan

I'd suggest 2) is the more obvious.

But it should be in the plan for on an individual level it's the most onerous restriction. It would put a lot of people's mind at ease if it were in the plan. The fact that there's no level 0 in the plan, particularly in the light of Ronan Glynn's talking about 'a degree of normality', is very concerning. His 'degree of normality' appears to be the heavily restricted level 1.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

But it should be in the plan for on an individual level it's the most onerous restriction.

No, it really isn't.

xhomelezz

Talking about "smart" people..

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/protesters-stage-mask-free-shopping-trip-in-tesco-1104525.html

xhomelezz

patnor1011 wrote: »

Just open your eyes.
The Slovak Republic is one of the most strict mandatory mask regimes in the world. They are required even outdoors, everywhere you move with police and army patrolling streets and giving fines to people who do not wear them.
People have to wear a respirator mask, those fabric nonsense from 2 euro shops you see here are a no-go over there.
Still one of the hardest-hit countries topping the list of covid deaths.

Masks simply make no real difference.

That's simply not a proof to say masks are not working.

xhomelezz

xhomelezz wrote: »

That's simply not a proof to say masks are not working.

How is it not? In almost every country that has strict mask rules the numbers are sky high. Why has France had to lock down 4 or 5 times (well, didn't have to, but rather chose to) even though masks are mandatory everywhere there? Or almost everywhere.

Seanergy

patnor1011 wrote: »

Just open your eyes.
The Slovak Republic is one of the most strict mandatory mask regimes in the world. They are required even outdoors, everywhere you move with police and army patrolling streets and giving fines to people who do not wear them.
People have to wear a respirator mask, those fabric nonsense from 2 euro shops you see here are a no-go over there.
Still one of the hardest-hit countries topping the list of covid deaths.

Masks simply make no real difference.

Just open your brain.

So are you advocating for F2/95 masks for all in Ireland, or do they simply make no difference?

Graham

Graham wrote: »

No, it really isn't.

I think for (certain) businesses social distancing is the most onerous restriction. Theatres, restaurants, concert halls etc. But I can't think of a more onerous restriction on an individual level than masks.

xhomelezz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How is it not? In almost every country that has strict mask rules the numbers are sky high. Why has France had to lock down 4 or 5 times (well, didn't have to, but rather chose to) even though masks are mandatory everywhere there? Or almost everywhere.

So masks are the problem? I don't think so. There are plenty of other reasons you can blame it on.

Seanergy

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. But where in the Government's plan is there anything about them being scrapped? There's no level 0 in the Government's plan.

I have a record from the middle of the summer of the Expert Advisory Group saying that masks will be the first NPI to be scrapped of all the NPI's once the chance to start scrapping NPI's presents itself.


GOV don't have a level 0, because they are operating a living with the virus plan.

Seanergy

Seanergy wrote: »

I have a record from the middle of the summer of the Expert Advisory Group saying that masks will be the first NPI to be scrapped of all the NPI's once the chance to start scrapping NPI's presents itself.


GOV don't have a level 0, because they are operating a living with the virus plan.

That's reassuring. Thanks. I didn't know they said that.

But Scotland's plan has a level 0. That's why I find it strange that there's no level 0 in the Irish plan. Especially in the light of Dr Glynn talking about 'a degree of normality'. I'd rather 'normality', not a degree of it.

Ashbourne hoop

Deleted User wrote: »

I think for (certain) businesses social distancing is the most onerous restriction. Theatres, restaurants, concert halls etc. But I can't think of a more onerous restriction on an individual level than masks.

It really isn't. If I could go to a football match or watch my kids playing football wearing a mask, I'd gladly do so, without a moment's hesitation.

It's beyond my comprehension that there is still a mask debate. Absolutely ridiculous carry on, from what I assume are grown adults.

xhomelezz

xhomelezz wrote: »

So masks are the problem? I don't think so. There are plenty of other reasons you can blame it on.

But if you look at countries, and states in the US, with no masks they're doing, or have done, a lot better than the countries with the strictest mask laws.

Sweden has probably the best epidemiologist in the world in Dr Anders Tegnell. He said that the problem with masks is that they give people a false sense of security and that people don't wear them properly and don't change them.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

But if you look at countries, and states in the US, with no masks they're doing, or have done, a lot better than the countries with the strictest mask laws.

Apart from the whole dead people thing.

Ashbourne hoop

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

It really isn't. If I could go to a football match or watch my kids playing football wearing a mask, I'd gladly do so, without a moment's hesitation.

It's beyond my comprehension that there is still a mask debate. Absolutely ridiculous carry on, from what I assume are grown adults.

But wouldn't you rather watch the match without a mask?

Here's a book written by Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc entitled 'Proof That Face Masks Do More Harm Than Good':

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/pdfupdatedmaskbook.pdf

The book is full of references to scientific studies and papers.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Apart from the whole dead people thing.

What I mean is that Sweden has had fewer deaths than the UK, France, Spain and Italy, where the rules on masks are very stringent. I'm not saying there aren't other factors to consider, but we keep hearing about how important and effective masks are. The real world evidence suggests otherwise.

But I realise that the death toll in Sweden is a lot higher than in neighbouring countries, mainly because of the tragedy of the nursing homes early last year.

xhomelezz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But wouldn't you rather watch the match without a mask?

Here's a book written by Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc entitled 'Proof That Face Masks Do More Harm Than Good':

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/pdfupdatedmaskbook.pdf

The book is full of references to scientific studies and papers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Coleman

Think that wiki link says enough..

Graham

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

It's beyond my comprehension that there is still a mask debate.

There isn't.

At least no more then there's a world-is-flat debate

xhomelezz

xhomelezz wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Coleman

Think that wiki link says enough..

These are all from his book:

"In 2015, the British Medical Journal published a paper entitled, A Cluster Randomised Trial of Cloth Masks Compared with Medical Masks in Healthcare Workers. The paper was written by nine authors from the University of New South Wales, the University of Sydney, the National Institute of Hygiene and Epidemiology in Vietnam and the Beijing Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in China. The aim of the study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital health care workers. The study, which was extensive, concluded that the results caution against the use of cloth masks. ‘This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety,’ concluded the authors. ‘Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.’ And the authors added: ‘…as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for health care workers, particularly in high risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated’."

"Research conducted by four French doctors in 2018 and reported in Rev Mal Respir, was designed to evaluate the effect of wearing a surgical mask during a six minute walking test. The authors of the study were E. Person, C. Lemercier, A. Royer and G. Reychler. (The six minute walking test is regularly used in pulmonology.) For this research, 44 health subjects were used. Each individual performed two six minute walking tests – one with a mask and one without a mask. The researchers found that dyspnoea variation was significantly higher with a surgical mask, and concluded that the difference was clinically relevant.
The conclusion was that ‘wearing a surgical mask modifies significantly and clinically dyspnoea.’"


"A 26-year-old man suffered a collapsed lung after running 2.5 miles while wearing a face mask. Doctors say his condition was caused by the high pressure on the man’s lung due to his intense breathing while wearing the face mask."

Are they all to be dismissed because of what wiki says?

Graham

Graham wrote: »

There isn't.

At least no more then there's a world-is-flat debate

Is Dr Anders Tegnell a flat earther? He's debated the efficacy and effectiveness of masks.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

Is Dr Anders Tegnell a flat earther? He's debated the efficacy and effectiveness of masks.

I've debated the moon being made of cream cheese.

Seanergy

Deleted User wrote: »

I think for (certain) businesses social distancing is the most onerous restriction. Theatres, restaurants, concert halls etc. But I can't think of a more onerous restriction on an individual level than masks.

Whenever I see theatres and concert halls being cited as examples, all I see are pubs and nightclubs. Very few in Ireland are willing to talk about the elephant in the room.

The giveaway is that generally, the theatre crowd and concert hall goers are educated or at least open to being educated.