To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Away With The Fairies

xhomelezz wrote: »

Well condoms do the job, right..

98% effective when used correctly.

patnor1011

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's not a tiny % of the population, it's a significant % of the population if you look at those vulnerable to the disease based on age and conditions - based not just not on deaths but on ICU admissions and hospitalisations.

And that's not even considering the effects of long covid on the 'less vulnerable'.

Cocooning is not enough if there is widespread community transmission as we have seen in country after country. It's just a slogan, not a matter of practicable policy when you consider multi-generational households, how the vulnerable access essential care etc etc
It's a thoroughly discredited concept.

Your theory is good.
But there is practice and we pretty much see what is happening. Some of us actually experienced it.
I know a lot of people who had it and it is simply not what you believe it is. Since it is here to stay pretty much like flu you will get it one day too.
Maybe then you realize your fears were overrated.

Away With The Fairies

patnor1011 wrote: »

Sorry, I do not buy it. I came from a country where there was a lot of this "we" talk. How "we" should do this and that for betterment of others...
It is a modus operandi of socialist and communist regimes where exactly this kind of rhetoric was used to beat everyone in submission and completely remove free will and individual from realizing their potential.
This pandemic which is anything but is now being used in the same way. Talk about some moral duty to "protect" everyone else and you in particular coming here every day reminding everyone that they should act as if they are carrier of death is simply wrong.

So basically you couldn't give two fcuks about others?

odyssey06

patnor1011 wrote: »

Your theory is good.
But there is practice and we pretty much see what is happening. Some of us actually experienced it.
I know a lot of people who had it and it is simply not what you believe it is. Since it is here to stay pretty much like flu you will get it one day too.
Maybe then you realize your fears were overrated.

I'm looking at the age profile of admissions to ICU and hospital.
One person's experience is not a reliable guide in comparison to the extent of that data which represents the experience of thousands.

To suggest it is a tiny percentage is utterly without foundation.

I'd not going to engage any further with this nonsense. It has been thoroughly discredited on the more appropriate covid threads.

xhomelezz

patnor1011 wrote: »

Your theory is good.
But there is practice and we pretty much see what is happening. Some of us actually experienced it.
I know a lot of people who had it and it is simply not what you believe it is. Since it is here to stay pretty much like flu you will get it one day too.
Maybe then you realize your fears were overrated.

We, some of us, I know a lot of peopl, fears... Hmm

Just to remind you, same rhetoric in your post is being used to complain about whatever regimes in your previous post..

I'm not Irish born either, but there's one thing you have to understand, doesn't matter wherever you move to, you join society there. You'll have to accept the way they live, or move to another one. I'm afraid you'll spend a lifetime to find ideal one for yourself.

NovemberWren

patnor1011 wrote: »

Your theory is good.
Some of us actually experienced it.

Since it is here to stay pretty much like flu you will get it one day too.
Maybe then you realize your fears were overrated.

i had covid in march,2020. v.weird dry cough, and it attacked the chest. got over it. but it did seem artificial, in some weird way.
Anyhow, this year, have had the usual flu, has dragged on a bit though.
I don't think this mask thing is ok, it may eventually weaken the immune system.

How many viruses on Earth? 320,000 different viruses affect mammals. (and there may be up to 1,000,000 viruses?).

Virology.net, Website: https://www.virology.ws/2013/09/06/how

patnor1011

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So basically you couldn't give two fcuks about others?

Sure. Mainly because those who claim they do care are simply using this empty rhetoric to mask their own fears.
Why on earth would I care about you or "others"? I do have enough of my own problems. I am as vulnerable as one can be yet I am not going around preaching this woke mantra about how everyone should care about me using this "others" term.

Away With The Fairies

patnor1011 wrote: »

Sure. Mainly because those who claim they do care are simply using this empty rhetoric to mask their own fears.
Why on earth would I care about you or "others"? I do have enough of my own problems. I am as vulnerable as one can be yet I am not going around preaching this woke mantra about how everyone should care about me using this "others" term.

So do you drive like a crazy lunatic or mow down pedestrians as well?

patnor1011

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm looking at the age profile of admissions to ICU and hospital.
One person's experience is not a reliable guide in comparison to the extent of that data which represents the experience of thousands.

To suggest it is a tiny percentage is utterly without foundation.

I'd not going to engage any further with this nonsense. It has been thoroughly discredited on the more appropriate covid threads.

Yeah right, data, experience of thousands... You forgot to mention science.
Meanwhile...

Coronavirus cases have dropped to a record low in Texas roughly three weeks after the state lifted its mask mandate and reopened businesses.

"Today the 7-day Covid positivity rate dropped to a new recorded low: 4.95%. Hospitalizations dropped to a 6 month low.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-covid-cases-drop-record-low-nearly-three-weeks-after-mask-mandate-lifted-1579484

patnor1011

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So do you drive like a crazy lunatic or mow down pedestrians as well?

There is nothing I can reply to this hyperbole.
It is pretty scary to see how far your imagination can reach.

Sconsey

patnor1011 wrote: »

There is nothing I can reply to this hyperbole.
It is pretty scary to see how far your imagination can reach.

The scary part is your attitude, thankfully you are in the minority.

odyssey06

patnor1011 wrote: »

Yeah right, data, experience of thousands... You forgot to mention science.
Meanwhile...

Coronavirus cases have dropped to a record low in Texas roughly three weeks after the state lifted its mask mandate and reopened businesses.

"Today the 7-day Covid positivity rate dropped to a new recorded low: 4.95%. Hospitalizations dropped to a 6 month low.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-covid-cases-drop-record-low-nearly-three-weeks-after-mask-mandate-lifted-1579484

You forgot to mention little things like this:

Texas has 11.5 million people vaccinated and another 2.7 million people who previously had covid - while there may be some overlap there it looks like more than half the adult population have received at least one vaccine dose or would have some previous protection.
It would be a safe assumption that the majority of those most vulnerable to the virus are in the vaccinated group.

So what this has to do with the post of mine you replied to I have no idea.

patnor1011

odyssey06 wrote: »

You forgot to mention little things like this:

Texas has 11.5 million people vaccinated and another 2.7 million people who previously had covid - while there may be some overlap there it looks like more than half the adult population have received at least one vaccine dose or would have some previous protection.
It would be a safe assumption that the majority of those most vulnerable to the virus are in the vaccinated group.

So what this has to do with the post of mine you replied to I have no idea.

It would be safer to assume that covid sadly already killed the most vulnerable. The rest of them or us are pretty safe.

patnor1011

Sconsey wrote: »

The scary part is your attitude, thankfully you are in the minority.

What attitude? I am not going to pretend that I am happy with lockdown and restrictions as an excuse for some imaginary help to some people. Or that we are all in this together.
Minority? I do not think so. The majority of people are not some benevolent do-gooders as you seem to think. If that would be so we would not have such an amount of homeless people.

odyssey06

patnor1011 wrote: »

It would be safer to assume that covid sadly already killed the most vulnerable. The rest of them or us are pretty safe.

This is absolutely without foundation.
11 million vaccines rolled out in the state targeting the most vulnerable.

This is errant nonsense that was thoroughly discredited when similar nonsense was posted after the first wave.

There are still many vulnerable not fully vaccinated in ireland. We need to stick with masks and distancing and with the return of spring open up windows and doors.

Seanergy

https://twitter.com/wereontheditch/status/1378267769066684416

Seanergy

BREAKING: LINK

Taoiseach Micheál Martin breached Covid-19 public health guidelines by attending an indoor event held in honour of his late father in Cork.

While at the event Martin told an attending garda to take off her face mask for a photo opportunity.

The event at Blackpool’s Glen Boxing Club went ahead when “no organised indoor gatherings should take place” under Ireland's level-three Covid restrictions. The event lasted 45 minutes and was attended by at least 12 people.

Cork County Boxing Board President Mick O’Brien said the gathering was permitted because of a directive issued by the Department of an Taoiseach to allow the December 12 event honouring amateur boxer and father of the Taoiseach, Paddy Martin, to be staged.

The focal point of the event was the presentation of the Paddy Martin ‘Champ of Champs’ Cup to Irish Elite boxing champion Christina Desmond, a Garda originally from Cork but stationed in Dungarvan, county Waterford.

Receiving the award from the Taoiseach, Garda Desmond asked attendees standing off camera, “Do you want me to take off the mask?” An unidentified woman told her she could, while Martin gestured at Desmond and twice told her to remove it.

“Take off your mask; take off your mask,” he said, while the pair posed for photos.

Seanergy

wow

A spokesperson for the Taoiseach’s office earlier admitted to The Ditch that “official communications (like directives) do not emanate from this department... The Department of Health prepares the Health Regulations, which outline prohibitions on and regulations for indoor events.”

Just prior to publication however, government press secretary and former managing editor of The Sun, Paul Clarkson insisted:

“Ahead of the meeting, as standard, the department provided a directive to the club, including strict limits on the number of attendees, social distancing, and wearing of masks when not speaking or in photos.”

A constitutional law expert said that even if the Taoiseach’s office issued a directive, it could not bypass existing legislation.

Away With The Fairies

So is there a rule where you can take off your mask if you're posing for pictures? I can't seem to find anything on the HSE website.

xhomelezz

Politicians... They never learn from mistakes of others. They always go and repeat the same shìt. Makes you wonder..

AlekSmart

odyssey06 wrote: »

You forgot to mention little things like this:

Texas has 11.5 million people vaccinated and another 2.7 million people who previously had covid - while there may be some overlap there it looks like more than half the adult population have received at least one vaccine dose or would have some previous protection.
It would be a safe assumption that the majority of those most vulnerable to the virus are in the vaccinated group.

So what this has to do with the post of mine you replied to I have no idea.

All of that SuperSafety still did'nt prevent President Biden going all "Trumpian" about it though....?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/neanderthal-thinking-biden-criticizes-texas-mississippi-lifting-mask-mandates-n1259509

riclad

I find it incredible people saying it's like the flu,
Long covid has long term side effects .
I get the flu, I recover after 2 weeks. No side effects
Everyone one is different , the point of getting the jab is to make
sure if you get covid it won't be fatal or cause serious harm to
your body
I went to supermarket there's a shopper there an older woman
there with mask on just covers her mouth
Are there people so fffing stupid they dont know how to wear a mask?
In theory if we all get vaxinatted we, ll all have the antibodys
in Ireland covid will dissappear as it only survives by Infected
new people
The ebola virus was wiped out in Africa a few years ago
People should be wearing masks on the street during the daytime not just when they are in a shop

I don't care if you wear a mask or not if you are willing
to stay at home all the time and not go into any shop
or visit a doctor
If every one gets 2 jabs every irlsh person we may be able to go back to a normal life with pubs and theatres cafes open
I think it, ll take 6months or more for things to return to normal
I think there maybe some places that might ask for I'd proof of vaccination
Eg if you are going to a concert or a theatre in the next 12 months
Wearing a mask is a simple concept it protects the wearer
And stops virus transmission
I notice Biden is always pictured wearing a mask
Most politicians even American republicans when
working wear a mask
apart from Ted Cruz who did not wear one at a recent
press conference
I think what will happen is 10 per cent or more of Irish people
will get it until the point is reached where everyone has the jab
There's 100s of 1000s of people just in lock down eg they do not go anywhere except for a walk maybe they get food delivered by friends or family they are still vulnerable until they get the jab

Sconsey

patnor1011 wrote: »

What attitude? I am not going to pretend that I am happy with lockdown and restrictions as an excuse for some imaginary help to some people. Or that we are all in this together.
Minority? I do not think so. The majority of people are not some benevolent do-gooders as you seem to think. If that would be so we would not have such an amount of homeless people.

Self-centered, angry, ill-informed and deluded.

riclad

riclad wrote: »

I find it incredible people saying it's like the flu,
Long covid has long term side effects .
I get the flu, I recover after 2 weeks. No side effects
Everyone one is different , the point of getting the jab is to make
sure if you get covid it won't be fatal or cause serious harm to
your body
I went to supermarket there's a shopper there an older woman
there with mask on just covers her mouth
Are there people so fffing stupid they dont know how to wear a mask?
In theory if we all get vaxinatted we, ll all have the antibodys
in Ireland covid will dissappear as it only survives by Infected
new people
The ebola virus was wiped out in Africa a few years ago
People should be wearing masks on the street during the daytime not just when they are in a shop

I don't care if you wear a mask or not if you are willing
to stay at home all the time and not go into any shop
or visit a doctor
If every one gets 2 jabs every irlsh person we may be able to go back to a normal life with pubs and theatres cafes open
I think it, ll take 6months or more for things to return to normal
I think there maybe some places that might ask for I'd proof of vaccination
Eg if you are going to a concert or a theatre in the next 12 months
Wearing a mask is a simple concept it protects the wearer
And stops virus transmission
I notice Biden is always pictured wearing a mask
Most politicians even American republicans when
working wear a mask
apart from Ted Cruz who did not wear one at a recent
press conference
I think what will happen is 10 per cent or more of Irish people
will get it until the point is reached where everyone has the jab
There's 100s of 1000s of people just in lock down eg they do not go anywhere except for a walk maybe they get food delivered by friends or family they are still vulnerable until they get the jab

And if everyone doesn't, what then? What if only 85% take it?

Professor Ellen Townsend takes the opposite view:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1418591/face-masks-children-schools-exams-boris-johnson-news-teaching-unions

"Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology at the university of Nottingham, has warned that masks have a damaging impact on the mental health of teenagers.

She said: “Masks are dehumanising and a constant reminder to be afraid of others.

“That we are a danger to each other. Blanking out half of the face has a significant impact on communication and emotion perception.

“This is especially important for young people who have been starved of vital face to face contact with each other for the best part of a year.

“Face to face social interactions shape development from tots to teens. Young people need to socialise, play and have fun.

“A recovery based school curriculum should put social and emotional needs first to bolster mental health and well-being that will support effective learning. We need to put their needs first now.”"

I know people will say that a professor of psychology does not a virologist or epidemiologist make, but I think that what is missing in the debate on masks is the transformative effect they have on society, as outlined by Professor Townsend.

The salient point she makes, in my opinion: "That we are a danger to each other. Blanking out half of the face has a significant impact on communication and emotion perception."

xhomelezz

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden has probably the best epidemiologist in the world in Dr Anders Tegnell. He said that the problem with masks is that they give people a false sense of security and that people don't wear them properly and don't change them.

Deleted User wrote: »

She said: “Masks are dehumanising and a constant reminder to be afraid of others.

So what is it in the end? False sense of security or fear of others..

And just to say, I didn't hear one single complain from my two boys about wearing a masks. They do understand why masks cover up their mouth and nose...

xhomelezz

xhomelezz wrote: »

So what is it in the end? False sense of security or fear of others..

And just to say, I didn't hear one single complain from my two boys about wearing a masks. They do understand why masks cover up their mouth and nose...

They're two different opinions. I think both are equally valid. That's why it'd be interesting to have a public debate between the various scientists and doctors.

xhomelezz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're two different opinions. I think both are equally valid. That's why it'd be interesting to have a public debate between the various scientists and doctors.

Yeah and none of the two valid opinions says masks don't work.

odyssey06

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And if everyone doesn't, what then? What if only 85% take it?

Professor Ellen Townsend takes the opposite view:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1418591/face-masks-children-schools-exams-boris-johnson-news-teaching-unions

"Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology at the university of Nottingham, has warned that masks have a damaging impact on the mental health of teenagers.

She said: “Masks are dehumanising and a constant reminder to be afraid of others.

“That we are a danger to each other. Blanking out half of the face has a significant impact on communication and emotion perception.

“This is especially important for young people who have been starved of vital face to face contact with each other for the best part of a year.

“Face to face social interactions shape development from tots to teens. Young people need to socialise, play and have fun.

“A recovery based school curriculum should put social and emotional needs first to bolster mental health and well-being that will support effective learning. We need to put their needs first now.”"

I know people will say that a professor of psychology does not a virologist or epidemiologist make, but I think that what is missing in the debate on masks is the transformative effect they have on society, as outlined by Professor Townsend.

The salient point she makes, in my opinion: "That we are a danger to each other. Blanking out half of the face has a significant impact on communication and emotion perception."

Is being put on a ventilator dehumanising?

How many people does she want that to happen to?
Whats her emotional perception of that?

xhomelezz

xhomelezz wrote: »

Yeah and none of the two valid opinions says masks don't work.

Dr Tegnell was interviewed last week and was asked about masks. He said that the evidence for their effectiveness is weak and he pointed to countries with stringent mask rules such as Spain, France and Italy and said they continue to have high case numbers.

It would be very interesting to have a debate between Dr Tegnell and the state epidemiologist in Spain. They are poles apart in terms of masks. In Spain masks are now required when walking alone in the countryside.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is being put on a ventilator dehumanising?

How many people does she want that to happen to?
Whats her emotional perception of that?

She's specifically talking about the negative social effects of masks and particularly in the context of children. And she's also offering her opinion at a time when deaths and case numbers have fallen dramatically in the UK.

This raises the wider question as to what point masks should they be scrapped. There were 10 covid related deaths in the UK yesterday. Do you think it would be okay to go from them being mandatory to voluntary in the UK soon?