To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Unicorn Milk Latte

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Sorry but that just isn't the emergency situation that justifies what you euphemistically call 'non-pharmaceutical measures'.

So, a complete breakdown of the health care system, crematoriums running 24/7, graveyards running out of space to bury people, and pyres in parking lots because of that is not an emergency situation, and does not justifies indoor masks, social distancing and short term lockdowns.


Beyond cynical.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Sobit1964 wrote: »

India's cases have been declining rapidly - 50% since May 8th. Its why we don't hear so much about them any more.

Considering that I posted the link to the WHO numbers above, and that the WHO numbers show daily deaths on May 8th as 4,187 and on May 26th 4,157 means that you are either deliberately lying, or extraordinarily bad at maths.

Sobit1964

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Considering that I posted the link to the WHO numbers above, and that the WHO numbers show daily deaths on May 8th as 4,187 and on May 26th 4,157 means that you are either deliberately lying, or extraordinarily bad at maths.

I said cases. Not deaths.

Did you perhaps miss that in your haste to post?

Unicorn Milk Latte

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I said cases. Not deaths.

Did you perhaps miss that in your haste to post?

Oh, I see, if the deaths remain the same, and the overall numbers go down - never mind the deaths.

Sobit1964

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Oh, I see, if the deaths remain the same, and the overall numbers go down - never mind the deaths.

Who said that, do you have a quote?

Unicorn Milk Latte

Sobit1964 wrote: »

India's cases have been declining rapidly - 50% since May 8th. Its why we don't hear so much about them any more.

You need to contact your local service center for an update patch you are running month old soundbytes.

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Who said that, do you have a quote?

You were quoting my post referring to and linking to deaths, and were deliberately trying to create a false narrative that this is outdated information, because the situation has changed so much - while in reality, the actual thing you were quoting - death numbers - had not changed. And the health system is still in complete chaos.


To put some perspective on the attempt to play numbers games to downplay the situation in India: in the time span from early this month till today, the number of people who have died is higher than the complete population of Galway city.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Seanergy wrote: »

In the courts next week.

Leaving Cert student seeks court order allowing him to sit exams without mask.

He also seeks a declaration that the requirement to wear a mask during the examinations amounts to breach of his Constitutional Rights and rights under the European Convention on Human Rights.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40300214.html

Fair play to them.

Sobit1964

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

You were quoting my post referring to and linking to deaths, and were deliberately trying to create a false narrative that this is outdated information, because the situation has changed so much - while in reality, the actual thing you were quoting - death numbers - had not changed. And the health system is still in complete chaos.


To put some perspective on the attempt to play numbers games to downplay the situation in India: in the time span from early this month till today, the number of people who have died is higher than the complete population of Galway city.

Ok so that has nothing to do with what I posted, thanks... I guess?

Cases go down, deaths go down a short while after.... follow along, there's been months of this to give you the basics.

As to Galway city.... perhaps you might explain to everyone which city is born in terms of babies per day in India... clue: I'll see your Galway and throw you three Kilkennys.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Cases go down, deaths go down a short while after....

Wow. You guys are really not getting it.


When you remove non-pharmaceutical measures - BTW, that's a technical term, not an euphemism - the prediction of virologists and epidemiologists is an exponential increase of cases. Which then overwhelms the health system.

When the health system breaks down, as has now happened in India, that means that not only can't Covid cases that are, in normal times, not lethal be treated - this is why with declining case numbers, the deaths did not go down.

It also means that countless people die of non-Covid related illnesses, like heart attacks, that could be taken care of if the health system was still functioning.

These additional death numbers do not show up in the Covid stats.

CalamariFritti

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

So, a complete breakdown of the health care system, crematoriums running 24/7, graveyards running out of space to bury people, and pyres in parking lots because of that is not an emergency situation, and does not justifies indoor masks, social distancing and short term lockdowns.


Beyond cynical.

Pyres in the parking lot. Come off it. Were there four horsemen as well? We had 5,000 deaths with covid or from covid. I dont think breakdown of society was just around the corner.

Seanergy

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 wrote: »

Fair play to them.

Them is right.

Sounds like another case of an anti-mask parent using their child for their own reasons.

Has the child been bullied into missing a year of school becuase of his mothers beliefs/pride?

Looks like she is gold digging.

Unicorn Milk Latte

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Pyres in the parking lot. Come off it. Were there four horsemen as well? We had 5,000 deaths with covid or from covid. I dont think breakdown of society was just around the corner.

BBC

NYT

Irish Independent


Yes, I'm perfectly aware that conspiracy theorists don't 'believe' the writing and pictures in established newspapers like the New York Times. Doesn't change reality.




You state the fact that, here in Ireland, we had under 5,000 deaths.

You don't seem to understand that the Irish Government was able to keep numbers this (relatively) low, because they listened to scientists, and implemented appropriate measures.


The reason for the horrific situation in India is that politicians did not listen to scientists - they did exactly what people like you want.

xhomelezz

CalamariFritti wrote: »

India and Brazil are the worst cases. The ones where either the overall living conditions or the political circumstances or both led to unhindered spread. Thats what these countries are being accused of here anyway and yes I wouldnt dispute that.

In India 0.024% of the population died with or from covid and in Brazil its not quite ten times that. Over the course of the pandemic. 15 months.

Sorry but that just isn't the emergency situation that justifies what you euphemistically call 'non-pharmaceutical measures'. But our governments jumped at it and are now dragging their heels to let go of.

Fkn congratulations for applauding to that. You're such nice and lovely people. Every death is one too many. Lets wear masks forever just in case.

Guys, you've been had and I understand its hard to admit that to oneself and to others. But thats the reality. The numbers dont lie no matter what Claire Byrne and George Lee will tell you.

At this stage I don't know what are you talking about. Do you have a problem with masks, or you have a problem with numbers, or you have some completely different problems? Don't know anything about Claire or George, but I'm pretty sure you'll find some way how to connect mask thread and those two names.

Last time I remember, you were begging for a threadban

railer201

Sobit1964 wrote: »

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/05/dear-prudence-mask-coronavirus-fear-sex.html

For the last year, he has refused to take off his face mask, even when we are at home—just the two of us. This is true even now that he is fully vaccinated for the virus. He wears it to sleep, to do most of his bathroom activities, and, yes, even during lovemaking.

Its fair to say that some people have gone a bit mad over the whole masking thing

There's a saying about some people who are thought to be mad - that they're 'mad in the right direction' as in the case of the husband above.

is_that_so

railer201 wrote: »

There's a saying about some people who are thought to be mad - that they're 'mad in the right direction' as in the case of the husband above.

Apart from very made up nature of that tall tale, we do tend to find ways to help people to overcome mental issues. Praising them is generally not an effective way to do so.

Seanergy

Sure we are all mad here.

Mad with caution/kindness or mad with selfishness/disregard seems to be the question.

Cork's anti-mask granny got cheered and clapped outa of the courtroom this week, not to mentioned given the fair play comments on here. She may well have mental issues so maybe the anti-mask should hold back praising her.

railer201

is_that_so wrote: »

Apart from very made up nature of that tall tale, we do tend to find ways to help people to overcome mental issues. Praising them is generally not an effective way to do so.

Mental health issues aside, the vast majority of people who have complied with all the public health advice, including the mask wearing husband deserve praise.

At least they have tried their level best to battle this killer disease, unlike others who did little to stop the spread, the opposite in fact.

is_that_so

Seanergy wrote: »

Sure we are all mad here.

Mad with caution/kindness or mad with selfishness/disregard seems to be the question.

Cork's anti-mask granny got cheered and clapped outa of the courtroom this week, not to mentioned given the fair play comments on here. She may well have mental issues so maybe the anti-mask should hold back praising her.

Like everything in this period of our lives it covers a very wide spectrum of attitudes and behaviour which cannot be distilled into simplistic either/or views.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Here's what it comes down to:


Wearing a mask is, at worst, a minor inconvenience.

The science that proves their effectiveness has been around for a year, it's an established fact, not an opinion.


Some people are so self centred, narcissistic, incapable of compassion, sociopathic, that they argue that the minuscule inconvenience they have to endure when wearing a mask is worse than other people getting sick and dying.

AlekSmart

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Here's what it comes down to:

Some people are so self centred, narcissistic, incapable of compassion, sociopathic, that they argue that the minuscule inconvenience they have to endure when wearing a mask is worse than other people getting sick and dying.

......or perhaps less afraid ?

Unicorn Milk Latte

AlekSmart wrote: »

......or perhaps less afraid ?

Nobody with half a brain wears a mask because they're afraid, because they understand that the purpose of masks is to protect others, not the wearer.

Neddyusa

This time last year there were twice as many people in hospital with Covid as there are today.

Back then there was no mask mandate. When is it going to be dropped?

Unicorn Milk Latte

Neddyusa wrote: »

This time last year there were twice as many people in hospital with Covid as there are today.

Back then there was no mask mandate. When is it going to be dropped?

Please don't put it out of context.

During the first months of Covid there was no mask mandate because there was a mask shortage, and the best use for the existing supply was care workers.


The current situation in Ireland is that there is a fantastic vaccination effort, and plans for bringing things back to normal as quickly as possible.

Everybody, every single person, hates lockdowns and masks, so the expectation is that the mask mandate will be dropped as soon as it's safe - probably some time later this year.


The whole pandemic is still a global, evolving situation, so the rational thing to do is to open up gradually, and see how things turn out.


A lot will depend on the people who will not get vaccinated. After reopening, Covid will spread among them, and we will have to see how fast that happens, which partly depends on how large that group is. Worst case scenario it that the serious cases in that group will overwhelm ICUs.


Covid deniers in positions of power, like Bolsanaro, have caused immeasurable damage, including, ironically, a collapse of the economy in Brazil.


We can expect inconsiderate behaviour from them on an individual level as well. The hope is that either their numbers are small enough, or they're geographically separated enough so that they don't force further lockdowns down the road due to outbreaks among them.

Irish Stones

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

During the first months of Covid there was no mask mandate because there was a mask shortage, and the best use for the existing supply was care workers.

The shortage of masks during the first weeks of the pandemic is something that is under investigation in certain countries, because it has been deemed unacceptable that a civilized country didn't stockpile such a equipment which is absolutely necessary in the case of a pandemic.
In those countries it is possible that someone will have to respond for this shortage someday.

xhomelezz

AlekSmart wrote: »

......or perhaps less afraid ?

....or perhaps you keep pushing your arguments wrong way?

Unicorn Milk Latte

Irish Stones wrote: »

The shortage of masks during the first weeks of the pandemic is something that is under investigation in certain countries, because it has been deemed unacceptable that a civilized country didn't stockpile such a equipment which is absolutely necessary in the case of a pandemic.
In those countries it is possible that someone will have to respond for this shortage someday.

..and that's a good thing.

Every country has been underprepared for a pandemic, it took everyone by surprise, regardless of warnings from scientists that go back years.

So once things go back to normal, it's important to look back and see what can be done to be better prepared in the future.

Seanergy

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

..and that's a good thing.

Every country has been underprepared for a pandemic, it took everyone by surprise, regardless of warnings from scientists that go back years.

So once things go back to normal, it's important to look back and see what can be done to be better prepared in the future.

Regarding Ireland.

Micheál Martin set up the Pandemic Influenza Expert Group(PIEG) in 2000 when he was Minister for Health for this very reason, so that we would be better prepared. The PIEG were active right up to Dec 2019, for nearly 20 years. They made many reccommendations over the 20 years but very few were acted on.

The formation of the HSE in 2005 was meant to be a good thing for pandemic preparedness as ref by the ECDC but in actual fact it was not. Nearly none of the reccommendations made during the Joint DOH ECDC pandemic prepardenss report of 2007 were acted on.

First and only study done on Ireland's preparedness.

2013: Preparedness of Hospitals in the Republic Ireland for an Influenza Pandemic, an Infection Conrtol Perspective. PDF link

Unicorn Milk Latte

Turns out the WHO has very recently just done that - they released a report called 'Make this the last pandemic' that looks into failures in preparedness and response.


It's a long report with lots of detail, identifying failures, and making recommendations on how to improve things in the future.


Link to the start page here, which has the main report, a summary report, and additional resources.

Onion Bahji

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Nobody with half a brain wears a mask because they're afraid, because they understand that the purpose of masks is to protect others, not the wearer.

Nonsense. People wear masks because they are afraid. Afraid of doing something illegal, afraid of the baying-mob, or afraid of the virus. This old chestnut that people are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts is transparent codswallop. It’s time to take them off. Or leave them on if you wish but leave the rest of us alone ffs. You’ve dragged this out for long enough.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Onion Bahji wrote: »

Nonsense. People wear masks because they are afraid. Afraid of doing something illegal, afraid of the baying-mob, or afraid of the virus. This old chestnut that people are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts is transparent codswallop. It’s time to take them off. Or leave them on if you wish but leave the rest of us alone ffs. You’ve dragged this out for long enough.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.