To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633500#Comment_118633500

We had over 20K cases a day a few weeks ago and testing completely broke down. The real numbers were likely way higher than that. And that was DAILY.

So I don't believe that masks actually did anything to reduce the spread.

If it was so obvious that they reduced spread it would be easy to see that reflected in the data. Its not.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633549#Comment_118633549

Omicron is much more infectious. Without masks those numbers would very likely have been higher.

Likewise social distancing, it's difficult to "measure" it's effect, but since we know how the virus spreads, we know by definition that it reduces the spread.

Dohnjoe

Look we know how the virus spreads, so we know for a fact that masks reduce the way the virus spreads. Keyword: reduce.

Of course there are also many studies that back this up, e.g.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

ShadowTech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633632#Comment_118633632

I think at this stage this entire argument about whether masks work as we have been using them is no longer relevant. IMO, what matters is whether the impact of a restriction is sufficient to justify its continuance. Despite tens of thousands of cases a day the hospitals coped. Unless the claim is that masks were so effective that they saved us from having multiple of that number of cases to the extent that hospitals would have come under critical pressure it doesn’t seem like there’s much of a justification anymore.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118633984#Comment_118633984

There's no debate over whether masks work, we know they do.

Whether or not we still need them at this stage in the pandemic is indeed open for debate.

CalamariFritti

What we know from those pictures is that masks reduce emission of spray. People deduce from that it also MUST reduce transmission. The infamous 'its not rocket science' argument.

Which has been very difficult to verify and has ben proven to be marginal at best and mostly 'inconclusive'. Which is really another word for 'so marginal it may just be random fluctuations'.

So maybe the answer just isn't as simple as twitter Jane/Joe would like it to be?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634420#Comment_118634420

Studies have shown masks reduce the spread of the disease.

Where do people think flu went and how during the pandemic?

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634433#Comment_118634433

Studies have also shown that they don't. It depends on which ones you want to believe.

As for the flu I have no idea and I don't think the experts have either. Surely if covid is still spreading the flu couldn't be entirely eradicated either.

Its another one of those were the public is looking for an easy answer. I don't think there is one.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634472#Comment_118634472

?

Link the studies that don't show masks work.

We do have an idea what happened to flu. Masks, social distancing on a population level. It's an airborne infectious disease. There isn't some big "mystery" over any of this.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118634576#Comment_118634576

Plenty of links in this thread. Several from me. In fact only a day ago I posted a Bloomberg article containing a few.

If its an 'airborne' virus that got eradicated through distancing and masks how come the same didnt work for covid?

Those 'truths' are just way too simple for my liking. The real world is chaotic and doesn't work that way.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118635267#Comment_118635267

Because Covid was much more prevalent. A new highly infectious virus.

What do you mean "if" flu is airborne, how do you think it spreads?

You are aware that viruses can spread on respiratory particles correct? Can you think of any possible way to reduce the spread of those particles that say have been used in the medical field for decades?

CalamariFritti

Whatever, its been done to death. Can't be bothered to go for every new arrival in this thread through the same back and forth. I'm tired of it all and thankfully its nearly over.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118635977#Comment_118635977

The overwhelming consensus is that masks reduce the spread of Covid, which is why every country has mandated them (or recommended their use). Doctors have worn masks for decades when treating specific respiratory diseases. Do you know something the independent health professionals, scientists and experts around the world don't? The truth is that no you don't.

Leftwaffe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636261#Comment_118636261

Everyone is going to get COVID. Everyone. Multiple times.

Masks had their place in the early days of the pandemic. Now with anyone vaccinated who wants to be, and the severity of the disease dropped off a cliff, it’s time to leave it to personal choice.

In essence it’s really simple. They shouldn’t be forced on anyone. The same way vaccination shouldn’t be. It’s an altruistic thing to get vaccinated for most people and thankfully most people bought into it, including myself. I have worn a mask for the past 2 years but now I no longer want to do so as the risk levels are not the same.

The evidence that masks have to be worn by both people for protection is flimsy at best and was used as a tool to coerce people into wearing them. Masks have a time and a place but currently they cannot be justified.

There has to be a public health rationale and I believe there isn’t. I also believe Tony Holohan will say as much by the end of the week.

_Kaiser_

Mandatory requirements to be removed...

Laws requiring masks to be worn in shops and on public transport are expected to be dropped and replaced with guidance urging people to continue to the wearing of face coverings to protect against Covid.

The Government is also expecting the requirement for students to wear masks in primary and secondary schools to come to and end after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) meets this week.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/facemasks-expected-to-be-dropped-for-shops-public-transport-and-schools-41350543.html

Rightly, and finally, moving to personal choice.

Leftwaffe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637070#Comment_118637070

Absolutely glorious. As it should be. And as I said two posts above, I expected Holohan to drop them by end of week.

Some People need to realise we are not in March 2020 anymore. The risk just isn’t there.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637047#Comment_118637047

I agree, beginning and height of pandemic, absolutely. Now measures we being removed, that's fine (within reason).

But this "my body my choice" fundamentalism is nonsense. Should surgeons be allowed to refuse masks during surgery? It's their "choice". No, it's a rule for a reason. Should pilots be able to turn down medicals? Should we refuse to wear seatbelts in a car because it's "our choice"? Ridiculous

Cork2021

The replies to this are beyond what I was expecting! Some people are damaged forever! The people who want masks to continue have totally forgotten what it was like in 2019! Plenty of viruses and bugs going around, no masks, hospitals still packed to the rafters etc! Those who want to wear a mask by all means wear it just don’t stop my personal choice of not wearing one!

only problem I have is my work will probably want us to still wear the fûcking things,(supermarket) goody two shoes and all that jazz!

https://twitter.com/mairelineen/status/1493692331823964170?s=21

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637047#Comment_118637047

What do you think of masks being worn if you're actually sick? Like with a cold/flu/covid?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637070#Comment_118637070

Interesting line there

“Nphet kept masks to get more kids vaccinated but that was always going to be challenging as parents don’t rush to get their kids vaccinated and they don’t really get sick from it,” a Government source said."

Literally admitting all masks in schools were for was coercion. No science, no waffle about protection. Pure coercion. Our kids have sat masked up in the name of coercion.

Someone in government or in Indo is trying to throw someone under the bus.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638480#Comment_118638480

It was all coercion, digital pass, etc... some though actually think the government was caring for us. Lollers.

Leftwaffe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638462#Comment_118638462

Yeah wear them if you like. If you’re sick and want to wear one then do so. If you don’t want to then dont.

Pre pandemic there was people working with colds, flu, etc and nobody gave a sh1t. I’ll all for progression but forcing someone to wear a mask if they’re sick (unenforceable) is wrong.

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638480#Comment_118638480

I was thinking the same thing last night, coercion of the highest order, and admitting to it.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638064#Comment_118638064

The mental health impact of the last 2 years will be huge. 2 years of constant coverage, analysis and speculation with scary numbers and faulty models by "experts", restrictions and lockdowns, signage everywhere, and of course the stresses caused by job loss or hours reductions, social isolation etc etc

This in an era when society has become increasingly infantalised with regulations and guidelines for every aspect of daily life and behaviours, and the "peer pressure" aspect of social media and "need" of many to be seen to be doing "the right thing" - which in turn partly explains why so many people so easily went along with the massive behavioural and rule changes, even when the (in many cases questionable) justifications became untenable.

It also explains why so many will be unable to let go now and return to pre-2020 life where they have to make these decisions for themselves at an individual level in an environment where everyone else will do the same - as I've said previously, it's Stockholm Syndrome at a national level.

The disagreements and friction between families, neighbours and colleagues that have emerged over the last 2 years will unfortunately be with us for a long time to come yet

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638538#Comment_118638538

We are never going back to pre covid times. This pandemic showed up the selfishness of people and you're one of them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639184#Comment_118639184

We are going back to pre Covid times. Almost all restrictions are gone now and the mask mandate will soon be guidance and very few will wear them.

The selfish ones have always been the ones that want to force masks and other restrictions on people.

The people that don't want to wear masks don't care if you wear one.

ShadowTech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639184#Comment_118639184

It’s funny, I feel exactly the same as you do but from the opposite perspective. It’s clear that we are in fact going back to pre-pandemic times with regard to restrictions, etc. but like you I cannot I un-see the selfish people; the difference is that the selfish people in my opinion are those who think we should live under various restrictions (yes, masks included) to alleviate their own concerns and fears into perpetuity. Difference of perspective I guess.

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638538#Comment_118638538

People definitely gave a **** about the office martyr coming in and passing around their germs pre-pandemic.

It's even less acceptable now.

Also I don't think asking someone to wear a mask when they're got the flu and are travelling on public transport is in anyway wrong.

hotmail.com

Is there any evidence of how much anxiety the presence of masks causes in schools and wider society? Whether they cause more harm than they supposedly prevent?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639545#Comment_118639545

They seem to be causing an awful lot of anxiety on these threads anyway.

Not sure if that's reflective of wider society, but I doubt it.