To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877773#Comment_118877773

Perspective and balance is something that this thread badly needs on occasion.

Some might be thinking it's April 2020, not 2022 with multiple vaccination rollouts completed and a far milder variant out there.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877871#Comment_118877871

Doubt it.

Point stands.

fun loving criminal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877595#Comment_118877595

Cost of everything going up. The last thing I want is to get sick, thank you very much. I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels the same.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879685#Comment_118879685

Might as well fret about getting the flu or hit by a bus, it’s not something that should be on your mind daily. Hate to parrot the line but it really is nothing to be concerned about at this stage unless you are in at risk category (in which case you should be exercising personal responsibility and stop side eyeing everyone else). I know 12 people who have had it since Paddy’s day and every single one of them described it as a 2 day head cold with some chills and hot flushes. I don’t know what to say to ease your mind if the thought of that sends you spiralling in to terror.

Seanergy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877871#Comment_118877871

Says the Emperor who likes to post misinformation to make people feel better.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881688#Comment_118881688

What exactly in the post you quoted was wrong? Or my previous one for that matter - go look up the survey I referenced for yourself.

I don't need to post anything to make people feel better. If they do get Covid the overwhelming majority of them will feel better after a few days themselves.

There is no crisis anymore. Mass vaccination and a far milder variant have taken care of that. What we are still dealing with in this country is anxiety over case numbers (which sound serious on the surface but when you drill into the details, not so much) and the result of decades of waste and mismanagement in the HSE.

It probably is our good fortune that Covid isn't (and never really was) the threat it was initially feared to be or we really would have been in trouble.

Oh and as for Boggles above - don't worry, I'm not putting myself out by posting this morning. I'm just procrastinating before I get up and get ready for a day's work. Appreciate the interest though!

Seanergy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882033#Comment_118882033

You are unable to keep up with your own posts. Here is a little detail, perspective and balance.

1. What exactly in the post you quoted was wrong
2. Or my previous one for that matter
3. I don't need to post anything to make people feel better.

1.

Perspective and balance is something that this thread badly needs on occasion. post #7114

But misinformation does not count as perspective or balance. Doesn't stop you from injecting it though. I'd be of the opinion that you are deluded if you believe your posting of misinformation offers readers perspective and balance.

2.

Detail matters. That's why twitter dumps are generally pointless. post #7110

Ironic and ironically enough the post in which you shared misinformation to make another poster "feel better" about not wearing a mask originally derived from Twitter. Yes you extracted it from the restrictions thread, maybe knowning or not knowing it orginated from Twitter!? Surely this makes Boards "dumps" more than generally pointless!?

3.

I don't need to post anything to make people feel better.

But you did. post #6695

Seanergy

Researchers from University College London Hospital, Imperial College London and the University of Oxford, among others, were also able to bust another myth, one pushed mostly by anti-maskers.

They found the virus is “present at significantly higher (levels) in the nose than the throat”, a finding they said provides “clear evidence that emphasises the critical importance of wearing face coverings over the nose as well as the mouth”.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/covid19-firstofitskind-study-saw-volunteers-infected-for-science/news-story/770261dddb58d36048136a78e4c961b1

corcaigh07

The study, published last week in the journal Nature Medicine, found that only the most minuscule amount of the virus is needed to infect a person — as much as a single airborne droplet from a person sneezing, coughing or talking.

Doesn't sound like a mask can keep that out.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883094#Comment_118883094

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. The more droplets that are in the area, the more chance of infection. Plus we need to consider how far the droplets would travel and the effect of masks on the area of exposure.

It's about keeping the droplets in, especially in people who don't know even they are infected but who are infectious to others.

Also there is possibility that the extent of viral load exposure impacts severity of infection - the study did not try to assess that.

Key findings of the study:

Virus was first detected (first in the throat, then the nose) ~2 days before peak symptoms and increased steeply to achieve a sustained peak, in many cases before peak symptoms were reached, consistent with modeling data indicating that up to 44% of transmissions occur before symptoms are noted

It is, therefore, likely that most samples miss the peak of viral shedding. With virus present at significantly higher titers in the nose than the throat, these data provide clear evidence that emphasizes the critical importance of wearing face coverings over the nose as well as the mouth. Furthermore, our data clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 viral shedding occurs at high levels irrespective of symptom severity, thus explaining the high transmissibility of this infection and emphasizing that symptom severity cannot be considered a surrogate for transmission risk in this disease.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883059#Comment_118883059

Oh go on then.. I have a few minutes..

What exactly do you disagree with? Saying it's "misinformation" means nothing. Do you disagree that we are dealing with a far milder strain of the virus? Do you recognise the effects the vaccines have had? Do you accept the views and recommendations of Tony Holohan and NPHET at this point?

The graphic you're referring to is pretty self-evident in what it's describing and pubished in the FT. I would take that to be a bit of a more reputable source than some randomer on Twitter, no?

I absolutely don't HAVE/need to post anything to make people feel better, but in a thread filled with posts from 2/3 people who would suggest we're still living in early 2020, I will absolutely post some balancing views. It's up to the reader which views they subscribe to - which should absolutely involve multiple POVs and be informed by their own assesssment of (and vulnerablity to) the level of risk.

Now, seeing as I've answered your points, how about you answer mine above and indeed the others I've put to you previously.

Can you explain what you are concerned/anxious/however you want to describe it about at this point? Again, do you accept we are no longer dealing with an unknown and potentially mass-killing deadly virus? Do you recognise the impact that the vaccines and a milder strain have had?

How do you align your calls for mandatory mask wearing and enforcement with NPHET's advice? Again, no one says you (or anyone else!) can't wear a mask if they want to, but that's a far cry away from asking for people to be fined and imprisoned. How do you justify that extreme measure given where we are with the response to the virus?

You can keep up the attempts to "catch me out" and posting tweets from randomers that you think will validate your position (which I'm not even sure of as you've thus far refused to actually discuss it), or we could actually have a proper discussion on the issue - it IS a discussion forum after all!

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883072#Comment_118883072

Where's the clear evidence that masks do anything according to the study or in that article?

"Virus is “present at significantly higher (levels) in the nose than the throat" ergo “clear evidence that emphasises the critical importance of wearing face coverings over the nose as well as the mouth”? Think they've missed some crucial evidence in-between. Talk about 1 + 1 = 3.

Big drops in hospital numbers now with no mask mandate in place.

The things do nothing lads.

Seanergy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883199#Comment_118883199

Your posting from your own distortation at this stage, not balancing views. You've just described a graphic that has been thoroughly debunked as "pretty self evident". Need I say more.

Far too many things could be addressed in all your posts least of all this last one.

Quick example when did I ever call for people to be imprisoned?

Not attempting to "catch you out" that's all in your head, like many of the conclusions you have arrived at.

Play to the Anti-mask crowd all you like but I'm not baiting into anymore of your tripe.

Members and non-members visit this thread for mask content not to be told about milder versions, 2020 and/or lectured on insert ballsology stuff here.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887920#Comment_118887920

So you can't articulate your position or properly debate the questions put to you without getting huffy because your random twitter links and article posts are questioned and/or challenged by others. Maybe you need a blog instead?

In any case, so long as you understand that, and that you thus fundamentally undermine any point you're trying to make that's grand so!

Incidentally, the thread title is "to mask or not to/two", so it's for discussing both/all sides of the topic.

freshpopcorn

Spudman_20000

Another study, as if it was needed, that masking children was a ridiculous thing to do:

https://youtu.be/Wb-DECv1spg

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118904462#Comment_118904462

It's a preprint plus that guy in the video is fooking annoying, should take some drama classes.

xhomelezz

This is the article, not a muppet from YouTube.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.04.04.22272833v1

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118905798#Comment_118905798

Aw, you ok hun? Must be hard seeing cases drop without the need for the beloved masks.

Muppet from YouTube eh?

"Vinay Prasad MD MPH is a hematologist-oncologist and Associate Professor in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California San Francisco. He runs the VKPrasad lab at UCSF, which studies cancer drugs, health policy, clinical trials and better decision making. He is author of over 350 academic articles, and the books Ending Medical Reversal (2015), and Malignant (2020)."

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118905798#Comment_118905798

Thought link dumps were against the charter

What's your distilled opinion on the paper?

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118906534#Comment_118906534

Link to actual article instead of dumping YouTube video and calling other poster "hun" as spudman managed is better imo.

To your question about my distilled opinion on the paper, none yet, because didn't read it yet.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118906497#Comment_118906497

https://cancerletter.com/guest-editorial/20211008_5/

Yup muppet from YouTube eh...

Whatdoesitmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907329#Comment_118907329

Yet the OP's point is correct. Hospital numbers and case numbers are dropping without additional mask restrictions. Now how do you explain that

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907346#Comment_118907346

I'm not trying to put mask restrictions on anyone. So I don't really know what are you on about. To your question, there are plenty of factors in play in the way this pandemic is going. Dropping numbers of cases and hospitalisations are always good news, but saying masks do nothing because of those numbers, as some posters trying to connect it, is plain stupid. I think that anyway.

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907469#Comment_118907469

And what about case numbers rising in counties that still have have mask mandates? Can't have it both ways.

The reason I know masks do jack is the same reason I'm not putting up a chain link fence to keep wasps out of my garden this summer.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907595#Comment_118907595

Well you do whatever you want to do. No one stops you.

saneman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907595#Comment_118907595

"The reason I know masks do jack is the same reason I'm not putting up a chain link fence to keep wasps out of my garden this summer."

Yeah, interesting analogy, I'm sure you put a lot of thought into it, but some have difficulty visualising the sizes/scales we're talking about here so how about we go with a more realistic analogy?

How well do you a 6m thick hedge would keep out wasps?

(taking coronavirus at about ~0.5μm diameter and a surgical mask at ~300μm thickness)

Now I'm not saying they couldn't get through the hedge eventually, mind you I wouldn't want to be standing there timing them. But then of course those wasps wouldn't be subject to the effects of Brownian motion or van Der Waal's forces either, so there's that too..

Oh btw, the wasps can't fly over the hedge, that would be cheating as the coronavirus doesn't have wings, just wanted to add that for clarity.

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118909195#Comment_118909195

It amuses me that you spent a portion of your Sunday doing a deep dive on my wasp analogy, rather than address my other point about cases rising in countries where mask mandates are still in place 😂

xhomelezz

Oh you call that wasp analogy. I was gonna offer you this

to deal with your wasp problem.