To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

3xh

Sconsey wrote: »

Nurses need to be told what to do too, they are not all the smartest or even health conscious. Imagine.

I’ll try to.......

Seanergy

3xh wrote: »

Move away from the conspiracy angle for a sec.

Even the switchover point from non mandated masks to mandated masks gave the government a burst of new credibility, shall we say.

It made it look like they’re on it, they’re still open to reviewing new evidence, reinforces the threat is still there, etc. And it’s worked. People really bought into it. And if you bought into the mask thing, why would you break another guideline? That’d be cherry-picking.

The recent HSE guidance note to staff says it all. I paraphrase, ‘Due to public perception, please wear your mask when moving around the public area of hospitals......’

LOL, a new burst of credibility for Michael Martin....GOV's switch over from non mandated masks to mandated masks was handled so poorly I think it non intentionaly had people reach for masks quicker. Mandating public transport before Hosptial's does not show GOV or HSE be on it, it shows the opposite. Masks should have been mandatory in all health care settings from day1 or nearest day thereafter.

The recent change in HSE mask policy has not come about because of the reasoning you are attaching to, that's a HSE bluff show and you are swallowing it whole. When has the HSE ever done anything quickly or indeed because of public pressure? never.

The truth is the HSE is in the bad books with HCW's regarding masks so in an effort to save face with HCW's the HSE used the public as their excuse to change policy.

Seanergy

weldoninhio wrote: »

A virus that will effect less than 5% of the population

The mangement of the virus has and is affecting 100% of the population.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It's only a matter of time when they come out with it being airborne. I wonder what will Ireland's plan be after that? Masks and ventilation are so important but sure how long will they figure this out.

UK has updated guidance.

SARS-CoV-2 is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory (droplet and aerosol) and contact routes. Transmission risk is highest where people are in close proximity (within 2 metres).

Airborne transmission can occur in health and care settings in which procedures or support treatments that generate aerosols are performed. Airborne transmission may also occur in poorly ventilated indoor spaces, particularly if individuals are in the same room together for an extended period of time.

Ireland's plan will involve a delayed response and mixed messaging.

3xh

Seanergy wrote: »

LOL, a new burst of credibility for Michael Martin....GOV's switch over from non mandated masks to mandated masks was handled so poorly I think it non intentionaly had people reach for masks quicker. Mandating public transport before Hosptial's does not show GOV or HSE be on it, it shows the opposite. Masks should have been mandatory in all health care settings from day1 or nearest day thereafter.

The recent change in HSE mask policy has not come about because of the reasoning you are attaching to, that's a HSE bluff show and you are swallowing it whole. When has the HSE ever done anything quickly or indeed because of public pressure? never.

The truth is the HSE is in the bad books with HCW's regarding masks so in an effort to save face with HCW's the HSE used the public as their excuse to change policy.

Tbh, thread fatigue is setting in here. I actually agree with you. My choice of operative words was poor especially around the bit regarding MM/Gov credibility etc.

But separately, are you saying the HSE wanted to make mask wearing in public areas mandatory, the staff said no, so then the HSE came at it from the angle of ‘but the public and patients are worried’?

Or the staff wanted to wear masks more often and so needed greater access to masks, the HSE said no. But now they’ve backtracked but the HSE are saying it’s actually not us, it’s the public/patient feedback that’s facilitating the extra masks?

Seanergy

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1312742627746426880

CalamariFritti

Could also be that the HSE doesn't really think that masks make a difference but acknowledges the political, media and people hype around them and now bows to that.

bloopy

Seanergy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1312742627746426880

RTE have been out to get the face shields for the last week or so.
Change of advice coming?

is_that_so

Seanergy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1312742627746426880

Michael McNamara has a view on people like this! This for me goes in the not at all helpful column. Not quite the McConkey camp but another non-entity thinking they can set public health policy.

Hand in Your Pants

Dr. Matt has more important things to be worrying about than people wearing visors. The state of his hair.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

Michael McNamara has a view on people like this! This for me goes in the not at all helpful column. Not quite the McConkey camp but another non-entity thinking they can set public health policy.

That's a lot of ah hominen attacks for one post. Is there a point there at all?

He's hardly the first medical professional to come out with "the visors do nothing", it's not like he is flying a kite of his own making.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's a lot of ah hominen attacks for one post. Is there a point there at all?
Nope.

GP wants to ban visors is the actual story not that they are useless. As I said in my "ad hominem attack", really not a helpful thing to say. GPs should be looking after patients not making public health pronouncements.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

GP wants to ban visors is the actual story not that they are useless. As I said in my "ad hominem attack", really not a helpful thing to say. GPs should be looking after patients not making public health pronouncements.

I guess he sees it as looking after his patients, indirectly, by raising an issue of public health.

Away With The Fairies

Seanergy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1312742627746426880

Anything sensible seems to get ignored here.

Away With The Fairies

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

Dr. Matt has more important things to be worrying about than people wearing visors. The state of his hair.

His hair doesn't infect other people.

Graham

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Could also be that the HSE doesn't really think that masks make a difference but acknowledges the political, media and people hype around them and now bows to that.

it's definitely either your conspiracy theory or

masks reduce the spread of the virus whereas visors don't.

Jim_Hodge

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

Dr. Matt has more important things to be worrying about than people wearing visors. The state of his hair.

A bit crass, when his hair affects the health of nobody but ineffective face coverings may.

CalamariFritti

Graham wrote: »

it's definitely either your conspiracy theory or

masks reduce the spread of the virus whereas visors don't.

I must be conspiracy theory then.

Strange though how the public is all mask enthusiastic while the actual health care pros including doctors dont seem too bothered until told by their bosses.

Graham

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I must be conspiracy theory then.

agreed, you must.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

actual health care pros including doctors dont seem too bothered until told by their bosses.

don't think that's anywhere near an accurate summary.

CalamariFritti

Graham wrote: »

agreed, you must.

The whole debate has become so absurd that its almost a tongue-in-cheek type badge of honour at this stage,

Graham wrote: »

don't think that's anywhere near an accurate summary.

Thats what it looks like to me. What do you think it is?

stockshares

https://twitter.com/amomcnally/status/1313468529237262336?s=19

odyssey06

HEALTH MINISTER STEPHEN Donnelly has said the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) is looking at whether to update advice to mandate the use of face masks where visors are being used. Speaking on RTÉ’s Prime Time, the minister said it would appear that visors are “not as effective” as face masks, but said he did not know and had asked the public health team to inquire.

https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-not-visors-ireland-5225830-Oct2020/

Mr. Karate

stockshares wrote: »

https://twitter.com/amomcnally/status/1313468529237262336?s=19

So post it then sweetheart.

Away With The Fairies

odyssey06 wrote: »

HEALTH MINISTER STEPHEN Donnelly has said the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) is looking at whether to update advice to mandate the use of face masks where visors are being used. Speaking on RTÉ’s Prime Time, the minister said it would appear that visors are “not as effective” as face masks, but said he did not know and had asked the public health team to inquire.

https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-not-visors-ireland-5225830-Oct2020/

They are slowly coming around to this being airborne. CDC has reinstated their claim on it being airborne. They took it down last week and it's back up again.

xhomelezz

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So post it then sweetheart.

You should post thatt on her Twitter, not here. Doubt she is following your posts on boards

Tork

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So post it then sweetheart.

"Sweetheart" posted the threat on twitter. Unless of course you thought a woman wasn't capable of managing such a complex task all by herself?

Mr. Karate

Tork wrote: »

"Sweetheart" posted the threat on twitter. Unless of course you thought a woman wasn't capable of managing such a complex task all by herself?

No. I just think she's full of ****. If she had the video evidence like she claim then she was posted it then and there.

Tork

https://twitter.com/amomcnally/status/1313533772281806850?s=19

Geuze

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

They are slowly coming around to this being airborne. CDC has reinstated their claim on it being airborne. They took it down last week and it's back up again.

Here is an analysis of aerosol transmission:


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fB5pysccOHvxphpTmCG_TGdytavMmc1cUumn8m0pwzo/preview?pru=AAABdRfmqyE*LjztXbyCZC8bp1aYvKB4yA#

stockshares

Mr. Karate wrote: »

No. I just think she's full of ****. If she had the video evidence like she claim then she was posted it then and there.

You ok now.

McGiver

Away With The Fairies wrote:

They are slowly coming around to this being airborne. CDC has reinstated their claim on it being airborne. They took it down last week and it's back up again.

It is de facto airborne - it can stay in the air for up to an hour. The primary vector is aerosols and droplets floating in the air - released by breathing, talking, singing, shouting, coughing and sneezing. Contamination of surfaces is not a primary vector.

Hence the whole Gov strategy is largely based on obsolete science assuming that aerosols and surfaces are equally important vectors, which they are not. Hence all the OCD with cleaning surfaces and sanitising everything. Which is no harm but frankly more of a waste of time and distracts attention from the primary vector.

Masks and social distancing are the primary methods of preventing the spread. And then of course preventing export/import to/from abroad.

The whole L3 or whatever level restrictions are very questionable if - mask wearing isn't universal and not enforced legally, social distancing isn't observed, schools remain open and borders remain open. County restrictions are nonsense.

If you want an example what happens if you follow what should followed and what then happens if it's all relaxed look at Czechia.

March - borders closed, universal masks wearing enforced, borders closed, social distancing enforced (Edit: schools closed also - and importantly travel within the country WAS NEVER RESTRICTED)
Peak in May - 50 cases per 100k population, 5 times less than the peak in Ireland
July - almost no cases, borders opened, masks dropped, social distancing dropped (Edit: schools opened in early Sep also)
October - 320 cases per 100k population, 6 times more than the May peak, and 50% more than Irish April peak

Irish peak was some 250 cases per 100k population due to late introduction of masks and letting borders opened. We are now at 110 cases per 100k population, which is about half of the first peak for now, nothing really very concerning in European comparison.

If the gov are afraid of no ICU capacity even with these relatively low numbers then masks must be made mandatory by law and the law enforced using fines for example, social distancing must be observed and borders must be closed or severely restricted. Preventing people crossing County borders, making business impossible for all small business and leaving schools opened won't cut it.

EDIT - TLDR - the gov strategy is half-arsed once again (coincidence that Mr Hollohan is back again???), restricting civil liberties (ability to travel) for no rational reason with little effect on spread and economically damaging, missing the important points:

universal mask requirement (minimum everywhere indoors including workplaces), legally enshrined and enforced under a threat of fine

social distancing strictly observed and enforced (strict regulation of customers in retail for example)

schools move to online or at least partially online

international travel severely restricted