To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Padraig Mor

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'm sure they provide a level of protection but while it's more than sfa it's less than sufficient.

Personally I have a visor and I wear while walking on a street or other reasonably open area. I used to wear a mask full time when outside the house but suffered from dry skin so I'm limiting the mask wearing to when I'm indoors or in an enclosed area.

Pretty much this. Is a visor better than nothing? Yes. Is it much better than nothing? Not really. Pretty much pointless IMHO.

Wouldn't be bothered wearing a visor or mask walking down the street unless it was unusually crowded.

Loafing Oaf

Gael23 wrote: »

I have been wearing a mask thinking I am protecting myself but it appears I am mistaken, it’s protecting others.

Am I wrong here?

Primarily about protecting others if you have covid. A small element of self-protection.

Beasty

Threads merged

Gael23

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Wear a kn95 for more protection. A visor isn't going to give you more protection.

Are they reusable? €3 for a single use mask is a bit much

Away With The Fairies

Gael23 wrote: »

Are they reusable? €3 for a single use mask is a bit much

You can store the mask in a bag after use, write the date on the bag and leave for a week and it's ok to re-use so long as you don't get the mask wet when using the first time.

_Kaiser_

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I've been wearing visors only for the past two months after finding it quite difficult to breathe using the cloth masks if wearing them for long periods. I think they are a lot more hygienic and comfortable for the wearer and unless you have a particularly large head I fail to see a protection problem for either the user or those around them. I think Alan Kelly is creating a bit of a side show which is a bit pointless, lets face it numbers have increased since people started wearing masks en mass. If needs be I will wear the light weight disposable masks to stay within the rules they seem to be about to change yet again. I would probably go through 4-8 in an average day so it will be quite expensive and wasteful and also damaging to the environment. Ah well, AK 47 rides again.

I had a reply written in the original thread but it seems to have gotten lost in the merge into this one

I switched to a visor about a fortnight ago as I likewise find the masks extremely uncomfortable and difficult to breathe in for any length of time.

Also, I'm not sick, haven't been sick, and not living in fear of "the virus". I live alone, work from home full time per week and only really do the shopping once/twice a week in terms of going anywhere.

To be brutally honest, the one thing I am sick of is the obsessing on this topic generally and the finger pointing at what someone else is doing. If someone wants to wear surgical masks or drive in a car on their own with a mask or even wear a full isolation suit (!!) then work away, but leave me alone. If you're THAT worried about catching covid then maybe you should just do online shopping.

zerosugarbuzz

For those who need to wear masks for long periods of time, an hour or more. Please change them regularly or if they are cloth masks bring several, change them throughout the day and wash them every evening after use. A mask worn for a period of time creates an optimum space for bacteria to grow being both moist and warm and close to the nose and mouth. After a while you will be breathing in bacteria which can cause bacterial based chest infections. These are not nice, I had one most likely caused by dirty air conditioning in my case. I've seen builders pull masks out of pockets of their filthy clothing and put them directly on. Not a recipe for healthy lungs.

zerosugarbuzz

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

You can store the mask in a bag after use, write the date on the bag and leave for a week and it's ok to re-use so long as you don't get the mask wet when using the first time.

That is absolutely not true and a dangerous message to put out there. If there is moisture and bacteria on that mask it will continue to multiply if kept in conditions over 5 degrees. It needs to be washed or replaced or you are literally breathing air through a filthy rag into your lungs, good luck with that.

Away With The Fairies

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I had a reply written in the original thread but it seems to have gotten lost in the merge into this one

I switched to a visor about a fortnight ago as I likewise find the masks extremely uncomfortable and difficult to breathe in for any length of time.

Also, I'm not sick, haven't been sick, and not living in fear of "the virus". I live alone, work from home full time per week and only really do the shopping once/twice a week in terms of going anywhere.

To be brutally honest, the one thing I am sick of is the obsessing on this topic generally and the finger pointing at what someone else is doing. If someone wants to wear surgical masks or drive in a car on their own with a mask or even wear a full isolation suit (!!) then work away, but leave me alone. If you're THAT worried about catching covid then maybe you should just do online shopping.

I have no issue what people do either but when they are wearing a mask wrong like under their nose and they are potentially spreading covid. That is the real issue, they are affecting others with that kind of behaviour. Visors are dangerous as well with the airborne nature of this virus. There are links posted here about how dangerous visors are and you just want to carry on and spread covid?

Loafing Oaf

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Also, I'm not sick, haven't been sick,

Primary purpose of masks is to prevent infected but asymptomatic people from spreading the virus. If you are experiencing covid-type symptoms you shouldn't be interacting with anyone.

munstergirl

I wear a visor working in retail but I also try social distance while working in retail, it's hard some customers don't social distance, 9 months into a pandemic and we still have to remind people to social distance. I wear mask while shopping.

About 90% of customers wear masks, 10% refuse and are still allowded to shop. How many are wearing them properly maybe 40%, lots of customers pull down the masks after walking past security, plenty of customers keep touching their masks, have masks under their nose, lots of customers meet friends inside the shop and stop to chat with no social distance.

Some customers are also touching everything and then touching their face at least the visor stops you touching your face.

Maybe visors should be banned for hairdressers, bar staff, as they are closer to customers.

Pitch n Putt

xhomelezz wrote: »

Sure they are, any links for that placebo effect, or you just talking out of your a*se

Sorry your royal highness.

Opinions - everyone’s allowed to have one.

No ??

Gael23

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Primary purpose of masks is to prevent infected but asymptomatic people from spreading the virus. If you are experiencing covid-type symptoms you shouldn't be interacting with anyone.

My problem summed up in a sentence. Offers no protection to a non infected person that will get it if they choose not to wear a mask

Pitch n Putt

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I have no issue what people do either but when they are wearing a mask wrong like under their nose and they are potentially spreading covid. That is the real issue, they are affecting others with that kind of behaviour. Visors are dangerous as well with the airborne nature of this virus. There are links posted here about how dangerous visors are and you just want to carry on and spread covid?

Potentially this possibly that. How did we all manage since time began.

Viruses colds flus etc were transmitted to one another. We didn’t hide away or proclaim a face covering with zero material regulation was going to save the world.

We can’t continue with the fear. Life ain’t meant to be lived like this.

Reality check is needed. We’re using a test that can pick up traces of virus matter for up to 78 days and these people are put down as cases.

Hospitalisation WITH actual Covid only should now be our only metric. Not 4-5000 cases per week where a high percentage of these have zero symptoms and are well passed a stage where they could possibly spread the virus.


Things have to and must change.

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Potentially this possibly that. How did we all manage since time began.
Viruses colds flus etc were transmitted to one another. We didn’t hide away or proclaim a face covering with zero material regulation was going to save the world.
We can’t continue with the fear. Life ain’t meant to be lived like this.
Reality check is needed. We’re using a test that can pick up traces of virus matter for up to 78 days and these people are put down as cases.
Hospitalisation WITH actual Covid only should now be our only metric. Not 4-5000 cases per week where a high percentage of these have zero symptoms and are well passed a stage where they could possibly spread the virus.
Things have to and must change.

This is a total red herring to masks specifically and covid in general.

We are using the same tests as we were in summer.
Why are we only picking up these 'well passed the stage' infected now given that we had peak of infections in spring?
Argument dosesn't make sense.
Our cases, ICU, hospitalisations 'with covid' are varying up and down as covid spreads or is contained in the population.
That is the logical and reasonable conclusion to draw.

We didn't have to manage with viruses like this 'since time began' because of domesticated animals, and civilisation and density of people.
A single hunter gatherer tribe isolated encounters a virus like this - that's where it stays.
But look at what happened in the Americas when a society without domesticated animals encountered a virus which had jumped from cows to humans. They didn't manage. Millions upon millions dead, maybe up to 90% of the population. That is what happens if you let nature run its course.

We are not living in natural conditions anymore.

You suggst we are are the first civilisation to adopt specific measures to deal with an infectious disease is utterly false historically. There have been quarantines, masks, specific hygiene measures etc down through the centuries dealing with plagues and viruses.

So in conclusion civilisation and viruses and mass travel mean we need specific responses to the conditions - masks are one of them.

_Kaiser_

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I have no issue what people do either but when they are wearing a mask wrong like under their nose and they are potentially spreading covid. That is the real issue, they are affecting others with that kind of behaviour. Visors are dangerous as well with the airborne nature of this virus. There are links posted here about how dangerous visors are and you just want to carry on and spread covid?

You know what (and this isn't aimed at you personally), but I am rapidly approaching the point of not caring anymore.

The vast majority of people are not at any significant risk from this virus with many not even knowing they have it until tested. The obsession about new cases and the fear it's generating doesn't sync up with the outcomes of those cases where proportionally very few people are ending up sick enough to be in hospital, and even fewer are dying - yet this is never acknowledged in the reporting.

We have plenty of reports and analysis about what *might* happen, very little about what *is* happening. For every "long covid" sufferer brought out, there are probably 2000 who are just fine - but that doesn't fit the narrative so we rarely see footage of people who have no symptoms or after effects, or leaving hospital fully recovered.

I'm tired of watching a percentage of the population attack others and grandstand to show how compliant they are while the economy and people's livelihoods are flushed down the toilet. I'm tired of the divisive and damaging nature of this "debate" where anyone not "on message" or offering an alternative (including genuine experts) is belittled and marginalised - and in the case of some, hounded out of their jobs.

There is something very wrong with the effects this whole thing is having on our society and its made worse in a country where we've thrived on begrudgery and worrying about what the neighbours have/are getting/are getting away with that we don't. This is a real problem that also isn't getting enough coverage in the reporting.

I can understand why people are afraid and that's completely understandable, but the country has moved from concern to fear to hysteria and overreaction and that will not help anyone. We seem to be taking whatever is presented at face value without question or justification, or thought as to the consequences of whatever is suggested. This is not a good thing and will cause far more damage in the long term than the statistically low fatal outcomes from CV-19.

But most of all, I'm sick of seeing our rights and freedoms being eroded under the guise of public health that is being used to put Gardai on the streets, limit movement and socialising (something key to mental health for most people), and all for something that affects those people who are most likely already very sick or not far from death anyway.

That's not to say we should ignore the situation, but we need to find a better way to deal with it. Those who actually are at risk should take responsibility for their safety up to and including isolation if their circumstances warrant it, and they should be supported financially and locally in doing so (just as they were in March/April).

The rest of us need to be able to get on with it with as little interference as possible, or we won't be able to support the first group anyway and soon after we won't be able to support the hundreds of thousands who will be unemployed or mentally struggling with the stress of the impact to their lives.

This virus is serious for some yes and that needs to be recognised, but its far from the deadly almost flesh eating virus that was feared in March - and that is a Good Thing!

odyssey06

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But most of all, I'm sick of seeing our rights and freedoms being eroded under the guise of public health that is being used to put Gardai on the streets, limit movement and socialising (something key to mental health for most people), and all for something that affects those people who are most likely already very sick or not far from death anyway.

You don't have the right to endanger others. You don't have that freedom in a civilised society. If you want the benefits of living in society you have to accept measures on your behaviour which have the potential to endanger others- smoking in public, drink driving, what emissions your car produces and in a respiratory virus pandemic, the chance you may be infected and pass on a virus.

The demographic with the highest ICU admission in Ireland as a result of this virus was 55-64 with 30% of admissions. To suggest this is only about protecting the very sick or at death's door is fundamentally wrong.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland in the 'vulnerable category'. They are not necessarily very sick. They may have a condition well managed by medications which means they have a reasonable life expectancy of decades.
It is too large a section of society to protect with cocooning should we just stand back and let this virus run its natural course through society.
Even in the non-vulnerable category, we should remember that 4% of all US covid deaths were under 65 and had no co-morbidities.

That is why we need measures such as masks.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

This is a total red herring to masks specifically and covid in general.

We are using the same tests as we were in summer.
Why are we only picking up these 'well passed the stage' infected now given that we had peak of infections in spring?
Argument dosesn't make sense.
Our cases, ICU, hospitalisations 'with covid' are varying up and down as covid spreads or is contained in the population.
That is the logical and reasonable conclusion to draw.

We didn't have to manage with viruses like this 'since time began' because of domesticated animals, and civilisation and density of people.
A single hunter gatherer tribe isolated encounters a virus like this - that's where it stays.
But look at what happened in the Americas when a society without domesticated animals encountered a virus which had jumped from cows to humans. They didn't manage. Millions upon millions dead, maybe up to 90% of the population. That is what happens if you let nature run its course.

We are not living in natural conditions anymore.

You suggst we are are the first civilisation to adopt specific measures to deal with an infectious disease is utterly false historically. There have been quarantines, masks, specific hygiene measures etc down through the centuries dealing with plagues and viruses.

So in conclusion civilisation and viruses and mass travel mean we need specific responses to the conditions - masks are one of them.

We’re now doing close to 100000 tests per week. It’s simple really the more u test the more your going to find.

Most of these people have zero symptoms.

We couldn’t get enough testing when needed initially

People traveling along time before last March without these magical masks and civilisation survived.

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

We’re now doing close to 100000 tests per week. It’s simple really the more u test the more your going to find.

Wrong - our positivity % has varied also.

xhomelezz

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Sorry your royal highness.

Opinions - everyone’s allowed to have one.

No ??

Oh sorry, I thought when you telling to other poster that masks are just placebo effect, you have something hiding in your sleeve to back it up with.

paul71

3xh wrote: »

When you spout this claim about it spreading faster than at any point to now, you obviously are aware of the test number figures between March and now.

How many tests were being done in March daily versus, say, this week? Or even September. Testing capacity is higher now, is a clue.

You’re a classic ‘won’t somebody please think of the children?!’ poster, regurgitating claims etc from an article you read or something NPHET hinted at.

1000 here, 600 there, so what. Big deal. We’d the same case numbers in April with a claimed corresponding elevated death rate. That death rate isn’t showing here again though.

For all the deaths and cases being announced by RTÉ each night, they invariably leave out the denotified numbers too.

It took a Covid oireachtas committee hearing for it to be confirmed publicly that if John breaks his leg and is also Covid positive, even asymptomatically, he’s entered as a Covid hospitalisation.

Lies. Damned lies. And statistics. Be careful you’re not being played.

The denial of fact is simply a flat earther attitude. If it does not suit you then call the math a lie.

It is spreading faster than at any point since the breakout. End of story irrespective of any nonsense you chose to spout.

Graces7

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This virus is serious for some yes and that needs to be recognised, but its far from the deadly almost flesh eating virus that was feared in March - and that is a Good Thing!

There is nothing "good" about covid-19 or any aspect or effect of it. Not one thing. So many have died and so many here have lost loved ones.

_Kaiser_

Graces7 wrote: »

There is nothing "good" about covid-19 or any aspect or effect of it. Not one thing. So many have died and so many here have lost loved ones.

And that's sad, it really is but so many more have not and even more don't even know that they had it unless they are tested.

Plus people die every day from a huge range of things (and far more than from CV-19) and that's sad too, but we don't lockdown the country or impose restrictions on everyone because of it. We take sensible and proportional measures where possible to reduce the risk.

Death is unavoidable I'm afraid.

Graces7

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And that's sad, it really is but so many more have not and even more don't even know that they had it unless they are tested.

Plus people die every day from a huge range of things (and far more than from CV-19) and that's sad too, but we don't lockdown the country or impose restrictions on everyone because of it. We take sensible and proportional measures where possible to reduce the risk.

Death is unavoidable I'm afraid.

((HUGS)))

And death is avoidable in many many ways and many many situations. it is not to be encouraged and dangers ignored.

Deeply thankful for all who help others avoid death

The sun is out and so am I!

Dionaibh

Graces7 wrote: »

((HUGS)))

And death is avoidable in many many ways and many many situations. it is not to be encouraged and dangers ignored.

Deeply thankful for all who help others avoid death

The sun is out and so am I!

That's true, but the purpose of life is not the avoidance of death. We take risks in life. It's what makes life worth living.

odyssey06

paul71 wrote: »

The denial of fact is simply a flat earther attitude. If it does not suit you then call the math a lie.

It is spreading faster than at any point since the breakout. End of story irrespective of any nonsense you chose to spout.

Faster than in the spring?
Maybe I'm mis-interpreting what you are writing, but you would have to be not paying attention to think our spring case count was in any way our real case count. You couldnt even get tested.

Seanergy

It will be November before the new legislation for reasonable no mask fines are up and running. Should have happened in MAY before country entered phase 1 of exit from lockdown 1.

Every person fined whould be given a 10 pack of disposable masks to help them on their road to recovery.

3xh

odyssey06 wrote: »

Faster than in the spring?
Maybe I'm mis-interpreting what you are writing, but you would have to be not paying attention to think our spring case count was in any way our real case count. You couldnt even get tested.

I read their reply same way as you, odyssey06.

Imagine if we had the same level of testing plus tracing then as we do now. April’s figures would be off the charts. Thereby making our current case load a little blip.

And all of a sudden the worrisome tones from the media, currently, wouldn’t make sense.

The power of statistics.

To the person who quoted me, stop regurgitating what you hear from David McCullagh & co and think critically, research these figures yourself and understand statistics better.

What you’re seeing now is not April all over again. End of.

MadYaker

3xh wrote: »

I read their reply same way as you, odyssey06.

Imagine if we had the same level of testing plus tracing then as we do now. April’s figures would be off the charts. Thereby making our current case load a little blip.

And all of a sudden the worrisome tones from the media, currently, wouldn’t make sense.

The power of statistics.

To the person who quoted me, stop regurgitating what you hear from David McCullagh & co and think critically, research these figures yourself and understand statistics better.

What you’re seeing now is not April all over again. End of.

So if it's not April all over again where would you say we are? January, February? Which way is the trend going?

3xh

MadYaker wrote: »

So if it's not April all over again where would you say we are? January, February? Which way is the trend going?

Neither. We’ve simply moved on. Yes, it’s the same virus in name. But like any organism/virus/etc, it’s adapted to its surroundings. As have we, through cough etiquette, hand washing, etc.

I don’t think we’ll see April’s death figures again.

I’ve researched the hospital/ICU/Death figures from the peak. Based on the age profile of those deaths, there were clearly people dying within care homes. They weren’t even moved to hospitals to die. Whether that’s because of DNR requests by the individuals, no one here knows.

But with the current strict protocols in place at care homes, the spread through the older population will be unlike April this time.

It’s just not a carbon copy rise. But Holohan and the media are trying to portray it as such because every winter our hospitals overflow.

They are trying to tenuously link the case right now with the case rise and death rise from April and imply that deaths now will be similar very soon.

It’s that threat that is being used to validate a lockdown.