To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

risteard7

odyssey06 wrote: »

I have no idea wtf you are on about or what your agenda is but I amnt going to indulge your off topic 'sarcsm' anymore.

Didnt you indulge in Sarcasm when you mentioned lightning? Ok so you cant answer the overall question. Join "paul71" and take a break.

Poorside

xhomelezz wrote: »

Country was basically fully open over the summer, no restrictions. Government slept in. Well at least our health minister apologized on telly for that. But yeah it's fcuking bad compared to march.

Wasn't there a poster here saying how great life was and how shïte Irish beer was?

xhomelezz

Poorside wrote: »

Wasn't there a poster here saying how great life was and how shïte Irish beer was?

Don't remember any post like that on this thread.

Poorside

xhomelezz wrote: »

Don't remember any post like that on this thread.

May not have been this thread, I do remember some lad going on about brilliant Czech beer and life back to normal and he put up a picture of a plastic pint glass near a river.

Now ask me what my wife wanted me to buy in the shop earlier and I haven't a clue.

Graham

I remember the posts Poorside, can't for the life of me think who or what thread but there was more than a hint of "this is the way it should be done"

McGiver

Loafing Oaf wrote:

They opened up after suppressing virus. Apparently did it slowly and carefully but that seems to be just delaying the inevitable.

Not slowly. It was fast. Opened up everything, holiday season. Stopped testing and tracing for more than 2 months. The populist billionaire PM was pushing for that and had his way as the health minister was his puppet. He's gone now, the new health minister is an epidemiologist of the hard-liner school (as opposed to the minority herd-immunity school of which the Swedish chief epidemiologist is a good example). He'll handle it. Masks are back in full swing. He posted a great tweet today with a 3 seconds long video of his - "This is my message. Everyone has 3 spare seconds to watch it - and the video said:'Kindly please remain home'"

NovemberWren

Really good video on youtube, about masks, in Michigan. There seems to be lots of protests there. These two females really know the effects of masks, one was in the army. They both are trained to give companies advice on safety. And they are completely against the mask. [it is at about 3 mins.].

https://www.youtube.com/RE: The Highwire with Del Bigtree talks with two OSHA workers about the effects of wearing masks

Graham

NovemberWren wrote: »

one was in the army. They both are trained to give companies advice on safety

Struggling to see the relevance of what you appear to suggest are two unqualified opinions.

Doubly so when interviewed by the CEO of an anti-vaccination group.

Dubl07

risteard7 wrote: »

The dog walkers was sarcasm but you have to be a little bit silly when your dealing with certain people. It is an absolute 100% fact that we have plenty of empty beds in hospitals and far more people die every day from a range of ailments other than covid, now are you going to deny that?

People die from still-birth to old age, but the excess deaths this year from a freaking pandemic that could be mitigated by people not being twerps is just unconscionable.

Do you know how many extra hours doctors and nurses as well as other health professionals are working? Do you even care?

Covid could shrivel your testes and make you infertile. Probably for the best in terms of humanity, but you could infect numerous others while you prance about being invincible. Are you actually old enough to be let out alone?

weldoninhio

Poorside wrote: »

Wasn't there a poster here saying how great life was and how shïte Irish beer was?

Masks are back in Czechia now, so their numbers should drop rapidly, proving that masks work, as they use them properly, we were told.

or

Masks "worked" in Czechia when no one had the virus, and this time around they'll be as useless as they are in Ireland.

weldoninhio

Dubl07 wrote: »

People die from still-birth to old age, but the excess deaths this year from a freaking pandemic that could be mitigated by people not being twerps is just unconscionable.

Do you know how many extra hours doctors and nurses as well as other health professionals are working? Do you even care?

Covid could shrivel your testes and make you infertile. Probably for the best in terms of humanity, but you could infect numerous others while you prance about being invincible. Are you actually old enough to be let out alone?

Ireland is in line to have no excess mortality in 2020. It got a bit ahead of itself in April/May, but the low numbers since have brought it back in line.

Graham

weldoninhio wrote: »

Masks are back in Czechia now, so their numbers should drop rapidly

Unless half the country decides it's a good idea to socialise in groups in each others homes.

No amount of masks is going to prevent increases in that scenario. Something we've proved fairly well.

odyssey06

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ireland is in line to have no excess mortality in 2020. It got a bit ahead of itself in April/May, but the low numbers since have brought it back in line.

It got a bit ahead of itself?
You mean, the pandemic impact manifested.
And for which active measures had to be taken to bring it back in line.

Which kinda proves the point as to why measures like masks are needed.

risteard7

Dubl07 wrote: »

People die from still-birth to old age, but the excess deaths this year from a freaking pandemic that could be mitigated by people not being twerps is just unconscionable.

Do you know how many extra hours doctors and nurses as well as other health professionals are working? Do you even care?

Covid could shrivel your testes and make you infertile. Probably for the best in terms of humanity, but you could infect numerous others while you prance about being invincible. Are you actually old enough to be let out alone?

How many extra hours?? You see this is the problem. Hospitals have never been quieter. I work in one I know. People like yourself think we are ran off our feet when in reality we've empty beds everywhere. Do you think it's like Bergamo in irish hospitals??

xhomelezz

risteard7 wrote: »

How many extra hours?? You see this is the problem. Hospitals have never been quieter. I work in one I know. People like yourself think we are ran off our feet when in reality we've empty beds everywhere. Do you think it's like Bergamo in irish hospitals??

To be honest, I expect you'll get busier soon enough.

Dubl07

risteard7 wrote: »

How many extra hours?? You see this is the problem. Hospitals have never been quieter. I work in one I know. People like yourself think we are ran off our feet when in reality we've empty beds everywhere. Do you think it's like Bergamo in irish hospitals??

Bergamo was quiet before Covid hit. I have friends and relatives who work in hospitals at levels from HCA to Consultant. At various intervals this year they've been working 90+ hours and can't depend on being off-call for real downtime. I've been in hospitals myself and watched people walk out because the waiting times for consultations regarding serious conditions requiring surgical or medical intervention because the consultants were working on emergency cases.

It's only now that the backlog of cancer diagnoses are being made. The arthritic hips requiring surgery. The heart conditions that were neglected and will now clog up theatres. The out of control diabetes. If we get another spike of Covid infections - no - since we now have another spike of Covid infections, there won't be enough capacity to provide real healthcare to the Covid patients and the other, non-infected, unwell.

Cleaning the loos in a hospital doesn't make you an expert.

Scotty #

Masks work when used properly.

Masks don't work when not used properly.

I've yet to witness someone use a mask properly.

odyssey06

Scotty # wrote: »

Masks work when used properly.
Masks don't work when not used properly.
I've yet to witness someone use a mask properly.

Was the mask covering their mouth and nose when they were in the shop \ bus?
They they were being used properly for their purpose in public places, as a barrier.
And I've seen hundreds of such proper uses.

Scotty #

odyssey06 wrote: »

And I've seen hundreds of such proper uses.

You've watched them sterilise their hands immediately before putting the mask on? You've watched them not once touch the mask with their hands after putting it on?

I doubt it.

odyssey06

Scotty # wrote: »

You've watched them sterilise their hands immediately before putting the mask on? You've watched them not once touch the mask with their hands after putting it on?
I doubt it.

If the mask is on, it's containing their droplets, so it's working properly for its main purpose.

If they haven't sanitised their hands, masks are neither here nor there.

You can sanitise your hands if an infected person has touched something that you touch.
You can't sanitise your respiratory system if it's received a dose of the virus.

weldoninhio

Scotty # wrote: »

You've watched them sterilise their hands immediately before putting the mask on? You've watched them not once touch the mask with their hands after putting it on?

I doubt it.

Odyssey is the arbitrator of masks. Even thought HSPC says otherwise, he/she believes what they say is right no matter what. Pointless arguing with them.

Scotty #

odyssey06 wrote: »

If the mask is on, it's containing their droplets, so it's working properly for its main purpose.

Droplets fall to the floor and aren't a serious risk. Aerosols float in the air and are a bigger risk. If a person inadvertently wipes Covid on the outside of their mask and then exhales through it, they are likely releasing infected aerosols and are actually potentially making their environment worse.

Masks have done nothing to stem the spread imo.

Sconsey

weldoninhio wrote: »

Odyssey is the arbitrator of masks. Even thought HSPC says otherwise, he/she believes what they say is right no matter what. Pointless arguing with them.

weldoninhio has already stated he is happy to lie about having a mental illness to avoud wearing a mask on public transport. Who would you say is more creditable?

Sconsey

Scotty # wrote: »

Droplets fall to the floor and aren't a serious risk. Aerosols float in the air and are a bigger risk. If a person inadvertently wipes Covid on the outside of their mask and then exhales through it, they are likely releasing infected aerosols and are actually potentially making their environment worse.

Masks have done nothing to stem the spread imo.

So many made up statements in such a short post.

Scotty #

Sconsey wrote: »

So many made up statements in such a short post.

I'll point you towards a study on the use of masks and cloth masks. The lowdown is that cloth masks were 13 x less effective than surgical masks and 3 x less effective THAN NO MASK AT ALL!!

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/


I am in favour of masks. But using a mask improperly renders it useless.

Norways study, in the same report above, has shown that 200,000 people wearing masks results in ONE less infection per week.

Can you show me any evidence from any study that has shown that the public use of masks has done anything to stem the spread of a disease?

odyssey06

Scotty # wrote: »

Droplets fall to the floor and aren't a serious risk. Aerosols float in the air and are a bigger risk. If a person inadvertently wipes Covid on the outside of their mask and then exhales through it, they are likely releasing infected aerosols and are actually potentially making their environment worse.
Masks have done nothing to stem the spread imo.

Droplets aren't a serious risk? According to who exactly?

You'll have to point to some sort of study to back up what you are saying, at the moment it doesn't make any sense and contradicts other lab studies eg see below.

If they weren't wearing masks, the person would have just exhaled the droplets directly into the air.
How did the virus get onto the outside of the mask?
Your scenario doesn't add up.

We identified seasonal human coronaviruses, influenza viruses and rhinoviruses in exhaled breath and coughs of children and adults with acute respiratory illness. Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

weldoninhio

odyssey06 wrote: »

Droplets aren't a serious risk? According to who exactly?

You'll have to point to some sort of study to back up what you are saying, at the moment it doesn't make any sense and contradicts other lab studies eg see below.

If they weren't wearing masks, the person would have just exhaled the droplets directly into the air.
How did the virus get onto the outside of the mask?
Your scenario doesn't add up.

We identified seasonal human coronaviruses, influenza viruses and rhinoviruses in exhaled breath and coughs of children and adults with acute respiratory illness. Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

Unless someone is licking the floor who is at risk from them?

Also how many people are wearing surgical face masks? And "could" doesn't sound like a very scientific term.

odyssey06

Scotty # wrote: »

I'll point you towards a study on the use of masks and cloth masks. The lowdown is that cloth masks were 13 x less effective than surgical masks and 3 x less effective THAN NO MASK AT ALL!!
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

I am in favour of masks. But using a mask improperly renders it useless.
Norways study, in the same report above, has shown that 200,000 people wearing masks results in ONE less infection per week.
Can you show me any evidence from any study that has shown that the public use of masks has done anything to stem the spread of a disease?

I don't really know how much weight to afford the Norwegian study, but it was a lot more nuanced than that in terms of numbers:

If this increases to 1000 cases in a week, only 20 000 people would have to wear a face mask for a week to prevent a new case.

We are hitting 1000 cases a day here.

And in Oslo,
With increasing transmission in society, the NIPH recommends that people should wear face masks on public transport when it is not possible to keep a distance of 1 metre from other passengers. A typical situation is during rush hour on public transport, especially in the bigger cities.

https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2020/recommendations-about-face-masks/

Sconsey

Scotty # wrote: »

I'll point you towards a study on the use of masks and cloth masks. The lowdown is that cloth masks were 13 x less effective than surgical masks and 3 x less effective THAN NO MASK AT ALL!!

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/


I am in favour of masks. But using a mask improperly renders it useless.

Norways study, in the same report above, has shown that 200,000 people wearing masks results in ONE less infection per week.

Can you show me any evidence from any study that has shown that the public use of masks has done anything to stem the spread of a disease?

I can show you evidence of your own nonsense....

Scotty # wrote: »

Droplets fall to the floor and aren't a serious risk.

Wow, you must be the only medical expert in the world that believes contaminated droplets are not a serious risk.

Aerosols float in the air and are a bigger risk.

Leading scientists are beginiing to come round to the risk of aerosol infection, the WHO and CDC are tacitly acknowledging a risk. The viral load from an aerosol particle is likely significantly less than a droplet. The duration the virus particles remain viable in aerolols is a complete unknown. There are still so many unknowns around aerolised particles but you seem to know more than the scientific community.

If a person inadvertently wipes Covid on the outside of their mask and then exhales through it, they are likely releasing infected aerosols and are actually potentially making their environment worse.

Sounds like you made that scenario up, any evidence at all?

Masks have done nothing to stem the spread imo.

Yeah you are entitled to your opinion I guess.

risteard7

Dubl07 wrote: »

Bergamo was quiet before Covid hit. I have friends and relatives who work in hospitals at levels from HCA to Consultant. At various intervals this year they've been working 90+ hours and can't depend on being off-call for real downtime. I've been in hospitals myself and watched people walk out because the waiting times for consultations regarding serious conditions requiring surgical or medical intervention because the consultants were working on emergency cases.

It's only now that the backlog of cancer diagnoses are being made. The arthritic hips requiring surgery. The heart conditions that were neglected and will now clog up theatres. The out of control diabetes. If we get another spike of Covid infections - no - since we now have another spike of Covid infections, there won't be enough capacity to provide real healthcare to the Covid patients and the other, non-infected, unwell.

Cleaning the loos in a hospital doesn't make you an expert.

Sorry but you have no idea what I do in the hospital. 90+ hours a week is a complete lie. Stop commenting on things you clearly have no clue about and tell those friends you have to stop filling you with lies.

I dont mean to be harsh but you clearly dont work and are claiming long term welfare. So I dont think I can respect or accept you're opinion. It's very easy for you to be happy to sit at home on front of you're computer and criticize people who want to keep working.