To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

_Kaiser_

Graham wrote: »

That's a lot of inaccuracies for such a very small sentence.

Visors are less effective.
Most people are wearing masks correctly.

If you say so. It's certainly not my experience walking around - people constantly fidgeting with them, their nose exposed, under their chin etc

But more to the point - I don't really care anyway. We will soon get to a point where the narrative will shift to personal decisions based on circumstances and risk assessment. If someone feels better wearing a mask, let them at it. If they feel so concerned that they want to limit contacts or stay home, that's grand too.

Me I will be living as normal as possible and y'know what, IF I get this thing (assuming I haven't already considering the huge numbers who are asymptomatic - or maybe I got it late last year with my annual cold) then so be it.

The odds are overwhelmingly in my favour and I'm more sick of the attitudes, the blanket fear-mongering in the media, and the attempts to regulate people's behaviours ever more intrusively, than I'm EVER likely to be from CV-19

Graham

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

We will soon get to a point where the narrative will shift to personal decisions based on circumstances and risk assessment.

Cool, when was that announced?

gmisk

Just back from Liffey valley Tesco.
Not a single adult without a mask, great to see.

washman3

I do a lot of driving in my job, but the amount of people I meet driving on their own and wearing masks is unbelievable. Fair enough some people may have asthma etc and can be worried.
Surely the HSE and NPHET could clarify this.
Also, people out walking on their own in open areas surely don't need to wear a mask.

Loafing Oaf

washman3 wrote: »

I do a lot of driving in my job, but the amount of people I meet driving on their own and wearing masks is unbelievable. Fair enough some people may have asthma etc and can be worried.
Surely the HSE and NPHET could clarify this.
Also, people out walking on their own in open areas surely don't need to wear a mask.

If they're 'between shops' they may prefer to leave the mask on until they get home. If you're being super-careful I believe that's the correct way to do it. Again with the outdoor walking, they're probably doing it just in case they bump into someone.

_Kaiser_

Graham wrote: »

Cool, when was that announced?

It's very simple.

- The magic money tree to pay people to sit at home won't bear fruit forever (indeed the Government raided the "rainy day fund" for its 1.5 Bn to help plug the Budget), and already struggling business won't survive the current yo-yo'ing in and out of lockdowns

- People have become increasingly frustrated and disconnected from the "advice" because for all the focus on cases and increases, the numbers in hospitals are STILL very low and the deaths even lower (given the context and perspective of a population of 5 million). You and I have had this go-around before... OUTCOME of cases is the important metric, and even Leo V has made noises on this lately. Plus as we've seen with the Oireachtas Committee hearings, how "cases" are recorded/tracked is suspect anyway. The willingness to buy-in of many is reducing weekly as evidenced by increasing resistance to the measures and coverage.

You may not like it, and you're not alone as we have a significant portion of people in this country who need to be told what to do/be validated for their compliance (as massively highlighted by this event), but the reality is that political and economic necessity will soon dictate the policy, not the "advice" - it's why even our weak Government are increasingly pushing back on NPHET's recommendations, as indeed they are this weekend per the morning papers.

Away With The Fairies

gmisk wrote: »

Just back from Liffey valley Tesco.
Not a single adult without a mask, great to see.

I was in my local SuperValu the other day, almost every customer had a mask except for one with a half visor yoke and the shop staff with visors. I think alot of people see the increasing numbers now and are masking up.

Graham

Short journeys maybe where keeping the mask on is preferable to putting it on and taking it off every few minutes.

I take mine off when I get back to the car unless I'm only going a couple of minutes down the road.

Graham

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's very simple.

even simpler.

It wasn't announced.

You're assuming based on your own opinion that the entire population is about to have a collective mass tantrum.

I disagree.

Away With The Fairies

washman3 wrote: »

I do a lot of driving in my job, but the amount of people I meet driving on their own and wearing masks is unbelievable. Fair enough some people may have asthma etc and can be worried.
Surely the HSE and NPHET could clarify this.
Also, people out walking on their own in open areas surely don't need to wear a mask.

Why do you have an issue with people wearing a mask on their own in their car or out walking? They might be going to the shop or are between shops.

_Kaiser_

Graham wrote: »

even simpler.

It wasn't announced.

You're assuming based on your own opinion that the entire population is about to have a collective mass tantrum.

I disagree.

Come back to me when you are able to debate without childish antics like the above.

Away With The Fairies

The UK are now setting up AI cameras at the entrances to their shop. It recognises people that don't have a face mask on and if you don't have a mask it won't let you in. So it avoids confronting aggressive customers.

They still haven't figured how it works for medical exemptions. But seriously, if people find it hard to wear a mask, it's alot harder gasping for air with this virus. Should these people be out doing shopping?

odyssey06

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If they're 'between shops' they may prefer to leave the mask on until they get home. If you're being super-careful I believe that's the correct way to do it. Again with the outdoor walking, they're probably doing it just in case they bump into someone.

I wear a mask walking on the beach... not for the virus but for the wind and sand.

ginoginelli

washman3 wrote: »

I do a lot of driving in my job, but the amount of people I meet driving on their own and wearing masks is unbelievable. Fair enough some people may have asthma etc and can be worried.
Surely the HSE and NPHET could clarify this.
Also, people out walking on their own in open areas surely don't need to wear a mask.

I dont get the dismissive and almost sneering attitude some people have to mask wearing in cars/parks etc. The wearers are just taking extra precutions, if everyone was a cautious and adopted a blanket mask wearing policy once outside the home we could stop this virus in its tracks.

Loafing Oaf

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wear a mask walking on the beach... not for the virus but for the wind and sand.

I wonder have some of the masked drivers that guy sees got so comfortable with the masks they don't feel any pressing urge to take them off before they get home. Can't see myself getting to that point I'm afraid

Yyhhuuu

No need for mask outdoors when socially distance according to the research.

Visors have been proven in effective by the fastest supercomputer in the world in a Japanese Study. Are people really saying just because retailers wear then the must be ok? They're only wearing them because of their managements ignorance and penny pinching disregard

washman3

ginoginelli wrote: »

I dont get the dismissive and almost sneering attitude some people have to mask wearing in cars/parks etc. The wearers are just taking extra precutions, if everyone was a cautious and adopted a blanket mask wearing policy once outside the home we could stop this virus in its tracks.

Hold your horses there bud. There is nobody sneering or being dismissive of anyone here, (maybe you are when you attack me). Luke O'Neill did exactly this on the Late Late Show some time back, yet is hailed as a hero now.

I am simply saying that i cannot understand why many healthy people drive around in cars on their own and walk in clear open spaces wearing masks.
There are even studies by many experts that prove mask wearing in these circumstances is totally unnecessary can actually have a detrimental effect.
As for your point about blanket policy, there is absolutely no evidence to prove this would stop the virus 'in it's tracks'.

Scotty #

Graham wrote: »

That's a lot of inaccuracies for such a very small sentence.

Ahh will ye change the record? This response is all over boards and has been used in this thread two or three times already! It's lame.

If masks had much of an impact it would be easy to prove their effectiveness and discussions like this would not exist. They'd be a no brainer and our healthcare staff would not have been infected in such high numbers. The truth is they make very little difference.

One of the very few studies that have been done show a paltry 1 reduction (not 1%, 1 infection!!) per 20,000 masks when you're at 1000 cases per week, which is where we were a few weeks ago.

Social distance/lack of contact is the answer as has been proven by the drop in numbers during lockdowns.

I'm not anti mask, I just don't believe they are effective enough to be such a big deal.

Graham

Social distancing, good hand hygiene and masks. All necessary to try and get this thing under control.

Go back and read that study again, it doesn't say what you think it does.

Sconsey

Scotty # wrote: »

Ahh will ye change the record? This response is all over boards and has been used in this thread two or three times already! It's lame.

So people keep telling you your statements are wrong, and this is your response.

You wouldn't consider the fact that, maybe people are telling you that you are talking rubbish, because you are talking rubbish?

Scotty #

Sconsey wrote: »

So people keep telling you your statements are wrong, and this is your response.

It wasn't in response to me but thank you for you're valued contribution. :rolleyes:

is_that_so

Graham wrote: »

Social distancing, good hand hygiene and masks. All necessary to try and get this thing under control.

Go back and read that study again, it doesn't say what you think it does.

No, that would be testing, isolating and contact tracing. They are just mitigation tools for the public.

Graham

is_that_so wrote: »

No, that would be testing, isolating and contact tracing

particularly when done in conjunction with social distancing, good hand hygiene and use of masks

Sconsey

Scotty # wrote: »

It wasn't in response to me but thank you for you're valued contribution. :rolleyes:

Oh sorry, I thought you were referring to this.

xhomelezz

Scotty # wrote: »

Ahh will ye change the record? This response is all over boards and has been used in this thread two or three times already! It's lame.

If masks had much of an impact it would be easy to prove their effectiveness and discussions like this would not exist. They'd be a no brainer and our healthcare staff would not have been infected in such high numbers. The truth is they make very little difference.

One of the very few studies that have been done show a paltry 1 reduction (not 1%, 1 infection!!) per 20,000 masks when you're at 1000 cases per week, which is where we were a few weeks ago.

Social distance/lack of contact is the answer as has been proven by the drop in numbers during lockdowns.

I'm not anti mask, I just don't believe they are effective enough to be such a big deal.

Hand sanitizing is not such a big deal either, until you lick your fingers.. All measures works the best applied together!

ginoginelli

washman3 wrote: »

Hold your horses there bud. There is nobody sneering or being dismissive of anyone here, (maybe you are when you attack me). Luke O'Neill did exactly this on the Late Late Show some time back, yet is hailed as a hero now.

I am simply saying that i cannot understand why many healthy people drive around in cars on their own and walk in clear open spaces wearing masks.
There are even studies by many experts that prove mask wearing in these circumstances is totally unnecessary can actually have a detrimental effect.
As for your point about blanket policy, there is absolutely no evidence to prove this would stop the virus 'in it's tracks'.

I wasnt actually referring to you in particular so apologies if I caused any offence. I agree though, masks in cars, and in parks etc are unecessary, but in many areas where they are necessary - anywhere inside, crowded gaa matches, the spanish arches in galway, protests in city centre etc, mandatory masking would go along way. Since many people are unable or unwillingly to don a mask in these type of scenarios, a blanket policy would take any messing out of it, and go along way into keeping people safe. It's an extreme measure, but we are losing the battle here, this crude method could be a cheap and effective way to get to level 1.

In regards to any of evidence that this policy worked.. This is a new pandemic, its early days, but it looks like similar policies have worked in Asia and Australia and many other countries are now adopting it.

We know the mask itself works, it's just getting everybody to wear them when appropriate is the problem. A blanket mask policy at its worst is annoying and an inconvenience, and at it's best could really stop the virus ' in its tracks'.

Worth a try imho.

NaFirinne

Looks like masks on there own are not going solve our virus issue.

Interesting article outlining a roadmap in canada for dealing with covid and the economic issues coming out of it.

According to the article other countries following similar roadmaps.

– Phase in secondary lock down restrictions on a rolling basis, starting with major metropolitan areas first and expanding outward. Expected by November 2020.

– Rush the acquisition of (or construction of) isolation facilities across every province and territory. Expected by December 2020.

– Daily new cases of COVID-19 will surge beyond capacity of testing, including increases in COVID related deaths following the same growth curves. Expected by end of November 2020.

– Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 – early January 2021.

– Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.

– Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus (referred to as COVID-21) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.

– Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1–Q2 2021.

– Enhanced lock down restrictions (referred to as Third Lock Down) will be implemented. Full travel restrictions will be imposed (including inter-province and inter-city). Expected Q2 2021.

– Transitioning of individuals into the universal basic income program. Expected mid Q2 2021.

– Projected supply chain break downs, inventory shortages, large economic instability. Expected late Q2 2021.

– Deployment of military personnel into major metropolitan areas as well as all major roadways to establish travel checkpoints. Restrict travel and movement. Provide logistical support to the area. Expected by Q3 2021.

From
https://cairnsnews.org/2020/10/16/canadian-politician-leaks-new-covid-lockdown-plan-and-great-reset-dictatorship-australia-is-part-of-it/

Scotty #

Sconsey wrote: »

Oh sorry, I thought you were referring to this.

LMAO!! Jeez he went back to find where he'd posted the exact same meaningless Punch & Judy style response. No you're wrong!... No! You're wrong... Have you honestly nothing more to contribute??

Scotty #

xhomelezz wrote: »

Hand sanitizing is not such a big deal either, until you lick your fingers.. All measures works the best applied together!

I agree. AS I said, I'm not anti mask at all. I just think there's a huge onus being put on them with very little effectiveness.

Sconsey

Scotty # wrote: »

LMAO!! Jeez he went back to find where he'd posted the exact same meaningless Punch & Judy style response. No you're wrong!... No! You're wrong... Have you honestly nothing more to contribute??

You see when you say something as stupid as droplets are not a serious risk I have to go back and read it again to make sure I was not mistaken. But no, you actually said that. So my contribution is to point out how stupid your statement is and hopefully inform others of the fact.