To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

railer201

Scotty # wrote: »

That's a lie and well you know it. All quotes in that post are from the one source, the latest advice from WHO which you can download yourself here...

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak


...and in the section relevant to the use of masks by the general public no less!!

You can throw your toys round your pram as much as you want, but that's the advice from the WHO. Pay particular attention to the ELEVEN points they make on the dangers of the general public wearing masks!



See above. That's still their stance.

Clearly not dangerous enough for the WHO to advise against wearing them - once again quoting from the latest advice (August 20)

Masks are a key measure to suppress transmission and save lives. Masks reduce potential exposure risk from an infected person whether they have symptoms or not. People wearing masks are protected from getting infected. Masks also prevent onward transmission when worn by a person who is infected.

Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive ‘Do it all!’ approach including: physical distancing, avoiding crowded, closed and close-contact settings, improving ventilation, cleaning hands, covering sneezes and coughs, and more.

saneman

eleventh wrote: »

No-one is saying they are 'blocked'. They are restricted (i.e. less coming through).

This idea that a mask is 'smart', that it filters out the bad only - it makes no sense.

The size of an oxygen molecule is ~0.3 nanometers and carbon dioxide is ~ 0.33 nanometers. The pore size in N95/FFP2 masks is generally 100 to 300 nanometers. A factor of about 300 - 1000 times greater so no, not restricted either.

xhomelezz

Graham wrote: »

And hospitals across the world would have dead surgeons piled up in the corners of operating theatres.

Hospitals are out of the question, as Wibbs was pointing out months ago on this thread, hospitals have magical field in action, masks works there, but you are fcuked the minute you leave the hospital gate with mask on.

eleventh

Graham wrote: »

I'll explain

Oxygen SMALL
CO2 SMALL
Virus Laded Droplets BIG

Mask filters out BIG

The material used in a standard surgical mask (by far the more common type of mask) reduces transmission of bacteria. Both bacteria and viruses are microscopic microbes, but they differ greatly. Bacteria are living cells, while a virus is a particle that requires a host cell to replicate. A coronavirus virion (particle) is spherical, averaging around 125 nanometers in diameter. Compare that to bacteria’s 1,000-nm size. It’s a grape compared to a grapefruit. A surgical mask whose purpose is to block bacteria will do little to prevent passage of the smaller coronavirus particle.

Source: https://www.fastcompany.com/90483762/why-masks-arent-better-at-protecting-us-from-viruses

Graham

bacteria and viruses are microscopic until they're carried in droplets.

Then they're BIG

McGiver

Sconsey wrote:

They are not restricted. You don't seem to understand that oxygen particles are smaller than the weave in the mask. They can flow through like water through a metal grate. Droplets are orders of magnitude larger than oxygen particles so the weave in the mask traps them. Nothing 'smart' required.

That's right. Let's throw in some numbers.

Oxygen molecule - 356 pm
Sars-cov-2 virion - 60-140 nm (60,000-140,000 pm)
FFP2 filtration - 0.1 um (100,000 pm)

Oxygen molecules are about 400 times smaller than Covid particles and about as much smaller than the mesh/weave of a mask. And probably thousands of times smaller than the smallest of aerosols/droplets.

eleventh

Why are some exempt from wearing masks then if they don't affect air quality or ability to breathe ?

Re-breathing of CO2 -on the inside of the mask- is the issue. Where CO2 is re-breathed there is going to be less oxygen.

Graham

eleventh wrote: »

Why are some exempt from wearing masks then if they don't affect air quality or ability to breathe ?

A really good question. I don't think there should be exemptions other than for extreme cases.

eleventh wrote: »

Re-breathing of CO2 -on the inside of the mask- is the issue. Where CO2 is re-breathed there is going to be less oxygen.

You're not rebreathing CO2.

To recap from previous answer :

CO2 SMALL

Mask filters out BIG

eleventh

eleventh wrote: »

Why are some exempt from wearing masks then if they don't affect air quality or ability to breathe ?

Re-breathing of CO2 -on the inside of the mask- is the issue. Where CO2 is re-breathed there is going to be less oxygen.

No offence, but your understanding of basic science is very very very questionable.

eleventh

I will trust the experts on this --the ones who speak out risking job, peer reputation, and with nothing to gain by lying.
The ones in the government camp I don't trust.
Information is out there for people interested, search for it.

People should be free to wear as much or as little mask, PPE, hazmat suit if it comes to that, or nothing at all. That's what it comes down to. It's all I really want to say on it.

Jim_Hodge

eleventh wrote: »

I will trust the experts on this --the ones who speak out risking job, peer reputation, and with nothing to gain by lying.
The ones in the government camp I don't trust.
Information is out there for people interested, search for it.

People should be free to wear as much or as little mask, PPE, hazmat suit if it comes to that, or nothing at all. That's what it comes down to. It's all I really want to say on it.

In other words you'll agree with the so called experts that state what you want to believe.
That makes perfect sense.

Away With The Fairies

eleventh wrote: »

I will trust the experts on this --the ones who speak out risking job, peer reputation, and with nothing to gain by lying.
The ones in the government camp I don't trust.
Information is out there for people interested, search for it.

People should be free to wear as much or as little mask, PPE, hazmat suit if it comes to that, or nothing at all. That's what it comes down to. It's all I really want to say on it.

Do you normally ignore doctors as well and their years of experience in medicine or do you just search for wrong information on Google?

https://youtu.be/2ZWV_6N9kb0

Wibbs

eleventh wrote: »

I will trust the experts on this --the ones who speak out risking job, peer reputation, and with nothing to gain by lying.

except for that most human of needs, attention.

The ones in the government camp I don't trust.
Information is out there for people interested, search for it.

Indeed it is, but maybe try and look at the information that isn't automatically agreeing with your existing opinion. That's how I went from a position of masks, meh, probably not so effective, to hmmm actually...

People should be free to wear as much or as little mask, PPE, hazmat suit if it comes to that, or nothing at all. That's what it comes down to. It's all I really want to say on it.

The single and obvious - well should be - problem with that and one that seems to elude the antis is that "I'll wear what I want" increases the risk for others. The I don't give a fcuk about others seems to be a part of this, with a tinfoil hat big gubberment angle to explain/excuse that.

Why are some exempt from wearing masks then if they don't affect air quality or ability to breathe ?

Some might argue that many exemptions are a nonsense. I fully understand an exemption in the case of something like people with autism or other developmental conditions where the problem isn't the function of the mask itself, but the extreme tactile discomfort for them wearing anything on their faces. Otherwise healthy adults no, and I'd suggest a trip to a psychiatrist would be more useful to many of them than a trip to a pulmonologist.

The resistance level goes up with filtration. IE more lung effort is required the higher the filtration. So someone with COPD is going to find wearing a half face respirator difficult, however at the filtration level of a surgical mask or cloth mask that level of resistance is significantly lesser. If wearing a surgical mask causes you difficulty then you need to see a medical professional, again either a psychiatrist or pulmonologist.

Re-breathing of CO2 -on the inside of the mask- is the issue. Where CO2 is re-breathed there is going to be less oxygen.

Christ, I dunno how this can be made any more simple to understand. If a mask is so tightly weaved that it won't allow the freeflow of CO2 out, it's going to stop the freeflow of O2 in. They call that putting a plastic bag over your head and they even have warnings on placcy bags not to do that.

pgj2015

Anyone I see now half wearing a mask with their nose out, I automatically rate you as a very low intelligence thicko. same with the visors. sometime I really do lose hope for humanity.

StevenToast

This post makes me want to half wear a mask with my nose out from now on

pgj2015

StevenToast wrote: »

This post makes me want to half wear a mask with my nose out from now on

why? so you can spread covid is it? great idea. hopefully they bring in fines and actually enforce something for once in their lives.

Gervais08

StevenToast wrote: »

This post makes me want to half wear a mask with my nose out from now on

Thank you for getting us to lockdown level 5 again.

suicide_circus

pgj2015 wrote: »

Anyone I see now half wearing a mask with their nose out, I automatically rate you as a very low intelligence thicko.

But maybe that's what they are. Plenty of people are of low intelligence.

pgj2015

suicide_circus wrote: »

But maybe that's what they are. Plenty of people are of low intelligence.

No maybe about it.

Away With The Fairies

pgj2015 wrote: »

Anyone I see now half wearing a mask with their nose out, I automatically rate you as a very low intelligence thicko. same with the visors. sometime I really do lose hope for humanity.

HSE says visors are ok, so you can't really blame people on that one... But mask under the nose. For the love of God, the mask is on your face, just cover your damn nose. It's very selfish they want air but happy to spread covid and give someone oxygen in hospital.

perrito caliente

Thread wouldn't mark you out as the brightest yourself OP.

pgj2015

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

HSE says visors are ok, so you can't really blame people on that one... But mask under the nose. For the love of God, the mask is on your face, just cover your damn nose. It's very selfish they want air but happy to spread covid and give someone oxygen in hospital.

I thought the HSE want visors banned?

visors are only 50% as effective as masks apparently.

Maxpfizer

pgj2015 wrote: »

Anyone I see now half wearing a mask with their nose out, I automatically rate you as a very low intelligence thicko. same with the visors. sometime I really do lose hope for humanity.

You make the mistake of thinking that these people care.

They don't.

That lady wearing a mask under her nose at Tesco? Doesn't care.
That gentleman taking his mask off as soon as he is upstairs on the bus? Doesn't care.

Every press conference and announcement starts with some nonsense about how we are all trying hard to protect each other etc. It's rubbish. A large amount of people just don't care.

They can't be shamed or embarrassed or made to feel bad about potentially making someone else sick. They just don't care enough about other people.

If you do get sick? Not their problem.

Was a new thread warranted for this?

pgj2015

Maxpfizer wrote: »

You make the mistake of thinking that these people care.

They don't.

That lady wearing a mask under her nose at Tesco? Doesn't care.
That gentleman taking his mask off as soon as he is upstairs on the bus? Doesn't care.

Every press conference and announcement starts with some nonsense about how we are all trying hard to protect each other etc. It's rubbish. A large amount of people just don't care.

They can't be shamed or embarrassed or made to feel bad about potentially making someone else sick. They just don't care enough about other people.

If you do get sick? Not their problem.

I think it could be because a lot of people wear the mask to protect themselves and think they are safe enough just covering their stupid nose.

loyatemu

pgj2015 wrote: »

I thought the HSE want visors banned?

visors are only 50% as effective as masks apparently.

I'd be amazed if they're anywhere near 50% effective. I've even seen a couple of people wearing mini-visors that only cover their mouth!

Chiarrai19

I would second the point raised by the op and genuinely question the attitude of people here/maybe the western world. I wouldn't point solely to intelligence although in some cases it is obv true. In the case of the woman in the US back in April with the hole in her mask, that's def intelligence. In Ireland it seems we have an attitude to being told what to do, maybe it stems from British rule. I'm not sure but wouldn't you just do what your told with the knowledge that it's for the greater good. People in China did what they were told and live a fairly normal life now. We just can't grasp that concept.

pgj2015

loyatemu wrote: »

I'd be amazed if they're anywhere near 50% effective. I've even seen a couple of people wearing mini-visors that only cover their mouth!

Id say there is a lot of people wearing the same disposable mask for the last few months or a material one but never washing it. sure how could you keep a virus at bay with clowns like that walking around.

pgj2015

Chiarrai19 wrote: »

I would second the point raised by the op and genuinely question the attitude of people here/maybe the western world. I wouldn't point solely to intelligence although in some cases it is obv true. In the case of the woman in the US back in April with the hole in her mask, that's def intelligence. In Ireland it seems we have an attitude to being told what to do, maybe it stems from British rule. I'm not sure but wouldn't you just do what your told with the knowledge that it's for the greater good. People in China did what they were told and live a fairly normal life now. We just can't grasp that concept.

Exactly, you tell some Irish person to move out of a disabled parking spot when they havent a permit and they will likely tell you to fcuk off. selfish people who only care about themselves.

Rrrrrr2

Will be interesting when or if this trial gets published- https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1317875526997102594?s=21