To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Pitch n Putt

Tork wrote: »

Someone who chooses not to wear a mask is making a statement that have no respect for the people they meet when they're out and about. Where does personal responsibility come into it if they are the ones who happen to have covid and infect others?

Absolute rubbish talk. This is the sort of sh1t that masks have created.

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

This is up there with "Is there any evidence to suggest you have stopped beating your wife" as a rhetorical trap.
Is there any evidence to suggest they won't?

The evidence is the past eight months of heavy restrictions on every aspect of our lives. Not a single restriction has been got rid of. There's also the fact that no country in the world, apart from the Cayman Islands, if I'm not mistaken, has got rid of masks completely. And I am unaware of any country that has said when they will be got rid of. The only health minister who has said they'll soon be a thing of the past is the Turkish Health Minister.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

Where is the personal responsibility for someone exposed to passive smoking?
Or a drunk driver? Or a car with bare tyres?
Shouldn't have taken a bus?
Shouldn't have walked home?

You still don't get it.
Masks aren't PPE for you, they are barriers for the people around you.
That's why it is important for you to wear one in public spaces.
If you can't adhere to that small measure that is asked of you during a pandemic, then it is you who should avoid public places.

How does "life needs to move on..." come into it? It doesn't.
It's a declaration of abandonment of your responsibilities to other citizens.
Such responsibilities comes with being a citizen of a country so that you can enjoy its societal benefits.

This is no proper pandemic and god help us if there is ever a proper pandemic with the total overreaction to the current situation.

How were mask not needed as a barrier for others when virus was an unknown entity in March April,May??

They need to be made a choice and not what we have now.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

When this virus goes away people will stop wearing masks. All this sub-The Handmaid's Tale talk is nonsense. How else do you try and avoid spreading a virus that is airborne?

But when? Why hasn't a single world leader said that masks will soon be a thing of the past? On the contrary, the guy from WHO said the other week they'd vaccines would complement the current measures. Anthony said the same thing. Does that sound like "vaccine = back to normal" to you? If anything, they're getting stricter with masks with the introduction of on the spot fines.

Tork

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Absolute rubbish talk. This is the sort of sh1t that masks have created.

This is also the sort of sh*t that reading too many conspiracy theories has created.

odyssey06

Fodla wrote: »

The evidence is the past eight months of heavy restrictions on every aspect of our lives. Not a single restriction has been got rid of. There's also the fact that no country in the world, apart from the Cayman Islands, if I'm not mistaken, has got rid of masks completely. And I am unaware of any country that has said when they will be got rid of. The only health minister who has said they'll soon be a thing of the past is the Turkish Health Minister.

Why would we get rid of masks when the pandemic is still out there and vaccines haven't been rolled out?
We rolled back on restrictions in summer. We have to restore them.
Your point has clearly and obviously been invalidated by multiple countries.

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This is no proper pandemic and god help us if there is ever a proper pandemic with the total overreaction to the current situation.
How were mask not needed as a barrier for others when virus was an unknown entity in March April,May??
They need to be made a choice and not what we have now.

This is no proper pandemic?
Not going to engage with this conspiracy theory nonsense.

It was an unknown entity. We didn't have enough masks. The focus was on them as PPE for health care workers to protect the uninfected.
Not as barriers.

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why would we get rid of masks when the pandemic is still out there and vaccines haven't been rolled out?
We rolled back on restrictions in summer. We have to restore them.
Your point has clearly and obviously been invalidated by multiple countries.

What restrictions did they roll back on apart from letting people travel around the country? The only restrictions that matter really are the masks and the distancing in that both have catastrophic consequences. The distancing in terms of businesses being unable to operate normally, or it not being worth their while to open because of capacity restrictions because of the distancing, and the masks in terms of difficulty communicating with people and being alien to our culture and our way of life.

But it hasn't been invalidated. Can you name a single country that has got rid of masks, or said it's going to get rid of them? As I said, the only health minister I have heard say anything about them being a thing of the past was the Turkish Minister for Health.

And Anthony might decide to keep them for the cold and the flu. I'm not saying they won't be got rid of. I'm saying there is zero evidence to suggest they will be got rid of.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

This is no proper pandemic?
Not going to engage with this conspiracy theory nonsense.

It was an unknown entity. We didn't have enough masks. The focus was on them as PPE for health care workers to protect the uninfected.
Not as barriers.

Not conspiracy at all. Coronavirus is along way from the Black Death or the Spanish flu.

Without the media driven hysterics the Coronavirus would be hardly recognised.
This virus was floating around from Nov,December last year and life carried on as normal without any of the current ridiculous carry on.

After all it’s a virus that you have to get tested for to see if u have it and then for all bar those with underlying conditions the treatment is “Stay at home for 14 days and you’ll be fine.”

If you think that’s what a pandemic is I hope to God we don’t ever see a real deadly disease.

Fodla

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Not conspiracy at all. Coronavirus is along way from the Black Death or the Spanish flu.

Without the media driven hysterics the Coronavirus would be hardly recognised.
This virus was floating around from Nov,December last year and life carried on as normal without any of the current ridiculous carry on.

After all it’s a virus that you have to get tested for to see if u have it and then for all bar those with underlying conditions the treatment is “Stay at home for 14 days and you’ll be fine.”

If you think that’s what a pandemic is I hope to God we don’t ever see a real deadly disease.

The only reason it is a pandemic is because of social media, non-stop testing and an obsession over dodgy case numbers.

Away With The Fairies

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This is no proper pandemic and god help us if there is ever a proper pandemic with the total overreaction to the current situation.

How were mask not needed as a barrier for others when virus was an unknown entity in March April,May??

They need to be made a choice and not what we have now.

A choice to infect others?

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Not conspiracy at all. Coronavirus is along way from the Black Death or the Spanish flu.
Without the media driven hysterics the Coronavirus would be hardly recognised.
This virus was floating around from Nov,December last year and life carried on as normal without any of the current ridiculous carry on.
After all it’s a virus that you have to get tested for to see if u have it and then for all bar those with underlying conditions the treatment is “Stay at home for 14 days and you’ll be fine.”
If you think that’s what a pandemic is I hope to God we don’t ever see a real deadly disease.

Black Death is a trivial disease for us to deal with in 2020.
We have antibiotics.
So that's your real deadly disease?

Media driven hysterics don't come into it.
It's the threat it represents to life and to public health systems.
A disease can be less deadly than Spanish flu, and still be deadly and represent serious danger to our hospitals.

That's why in the real world, you are required to wear a mask.

odyssey06

Fodla wrote: »

What restrictions did they roll back on apart from letting people travel around the country? The only restrictions that matter really are the masks and the distancing in that both have catastrophic consequences. The distancing in terms of businesses being unable to operate normally, or it not being worth their while to open because of capacity restrictions because of the distancing, and the masks in terms of difficulty communicating with people and being alien to our culture and our way of life.

But it hasn't been invalidated. Can you name a single country that has got rid of masks, or said it's going to get rid of them? As I said, the only health minister I have heard say anything about them being a thing of the past was the Turkish Minister for Health.

And Anthony might decide to keep them for the cold and the flu. I'm not saying they won't be got rid of. I'm saying there is zero evidence to suggest they will be got rid of.

Hold on a second, you said not a single country has rolled back on restrictions.
Patently false.

Countries such as Czech Rep rolled back mask restrictions and others, and are now suffering the consequences.

Masks are more catastrophic than closing down businesses, sports, gyms?
Really?

Supermarkets have had masks and distancing, distancing since March, masks since later. They are doing ok. So your contention is obviously and repeatedly invalidated.

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

Hold on a second, you said not a single country has rolled back on restrictions.
Patently false.

Countries such as Czech Rep rolled back mask restrictions and others, and are now suffering the consequences.

Masks are more catastrophic than closing down businesses, sports, gyms?
Really?

Supermarkets have had masks and distancing, distancing since March, masks since later. They are doing ok. So your contention is obviously and repeatedly invalidated.

I didn't say that countries hadn't rolled back on restrictions. I said that mask-wearing has yet to got rid of in a single country in the world. The only one I know of that has lifted mandatory mask wearing in shops is the Cayman Islands. That's why I believe there is zero evidence to suggest they'll ever be got rid of.

Can you explain to me how in countries with 24/7 mask wearing (Peru, Spain, France, Italy, the Philippines, among others) case numbers are through the roof?

But supermarkets are different from bars, restaurants, concert halls, stadia etc. For those venues, distancing and masks are catastrophic.

Masks and distancing are the reason a lot of businesses cannot operate properly. It's just not worth their while to try to operate with social distancing to worry about.

Pitch n Putt

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

A choice to infect others?

Leave it so will ya. Go home and hide under the bed for the rest of time...

Tork

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Leave it so will ya. Go home and hide under the bed for the rest of time...

Or you could just put on a mask for the short while you're in the shops. Nobody is hiding under beds.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

Black Death is a trivial disease for us to deal with in 2020.
We have antibiotics.
So that's your real deadly disease?

Media driven hysterics don't come into it.
It's the threat it represents to life and to public health systems.
A disease can be less deadly than Spanish flu, and still be deadly and represent serious danger to our hospitals.

That's why in the real world, you are required to wear a mask.

It’s 100% media driven pandemic.
The threat to life was massively overstated and the threat to public health systems is down to major mismanagement especially in this country.

The shambolic management for years has left us where we are now with lockdowns etc and economic destruction all for

Wait for it ..... less than 50 people in ICU and less than 300 hospitalised from a population of nearly 5 million

It’s a shambles

odyssey06

Fodla wrote: »

I didn't say that countries hadn't rolled back on restrictions. I said that mask-wearing has yet to got rid of in a single country in the world. The only one I know of that has lifted mandatory mask wearing in shops is the Cayman Islands. That's why I believe there is zero evidence to suggest they'll ever be got rid of.

Can you explain to me how in countries with 24/7 mask wearing (Peru, Spain, France, Italy, the Philippines, among others) case numbers are through the roof?

But supermarkets are different from bars, restaurants, concert halls, stadia etc. For those venues, distancing and masks are catastrophic.

Masks and distancing are the reason a lot of businesses cannot operate properly. It's just not worth their while to try to operate with social distancing to worry about.

You said no country has rolled back restrictions.
Patently false.

Why would masks be different?
Zero evidence offered by you.

Mask and distancing restrictions were retained as other restrictions were lifted due to their low economic cost.
But we have seen the consequences of that from open travel... socialising etc in the case counts.
Masks help to reduce the R number and spread but on their own are not a silver bullet.

Countries that lifted restrictions including mask wearing such as Czechs reinstated them as cases increased.

To propose that masks and distancing are more catastrophic than our current phase where hairdressers gyms cinemas restaurants are shut is utterly without foundation.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

You said no country has rolled back restrictions.
Patently false.

Why would masks be different?
Zero evidence offered by you.

Mask and distancing restrictions were retained as other restrictions were lifted due to their low economic cost.
But we have seen the consequences of that from open travel... socialising etc in the case counts.
Masks help to reduce the R number and spread but on their own are not a silver bullet.

Countries that lifted restrictions including mask wearing such as Czechs reinstated them as cases increased.

To propose that masks and distancing are more catastrophic than our current phase where hairdressers gyms cinemas restaurants are shut is utterly without foundation.

But they didn’t reduce the R number.
Once kids went back to school with masks etc the R number increased

Mid term the R number dropped but we can’t be seen to be mentioning schools as the cause of transmission.

All this happened while wearing masks I might add...

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

But they didn’t reduce the R number.
Once kids went back to school with masks etc the R number increased
Mid term the R number dropped but we can’t be seen to be mentioning schools as the cause of transmission.
All this happened while wearing masks I might add...

So what...shut the schools so you dont have to wear a mask?

There is already thread on schools.
In the context of this one - the R number would have been higher had they gone back without masks.

Tork

Masks are only one tool for preventing the spread and you know it. Kids don't wear masks in school so it spreads there. People visiting each other don't wear them so it spreads there. Masks are for reducing other forms of community transmission.

Tork

My elderly parents aren't hiding under their bed or cowering in their garden. But I think it's fair that when they go out and about, living their lives as best they can, that they can do so in relative safety. That means being able to buy their groceries or picking up a litre of milk without inhaling infected droplets from some oik who can't be arsed pulling on a mask for a few minutes.

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

It’s 100% media driven pandemic.
The threat to life was massively overstated and the threat to public health systems is down to major mismanagement especially in this country.
The shambolic management for years has left us where we are now with lockdowns etc and economic destruction all for
Wait for it ..... less than 50 people in ICU and less than 300 hospitalised from a population of nearly 5 million
It’s a shambles

Lots of countries have restrictions for masks. Canada, Germany, France Holland Spain Denmark...

Its nothing to do with our underfunded health system.

Some of the duration of our lockdown yes is down to our ICU capacity.
But the notion it is a media driven pandemic is nonsense.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

So what...shut the schools so you dont have to wear a mask?

There is already thread on schools.
In the context of this one - the R number would have been higher had they gone back without masks.

How can you say the number would have been higher without masks ??

You can’t it’s all a theory.

Shush we can’t mention schools or workplaces as transmission points Shur everybody knows it’s pubs and private houses and especially shops if your in them for 20 seconds are very dangerous

But wearing a mask or face covering made from multiple different fabrics with zero idea of what particle size it can withstand solves it all. :pac::pac:

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

You said no country has rolled back restrictions.
Patently false.

Why would masks be different?
Zero evidence offered by you.

Mask and distancing restrictions were retained as other restrictions were lifted due to their low economic cost.
But we have seen the consequences of that from open travel... socialising etc in the case counts.
Masks help to reduce the R number and spread but on their own are not a silver bullet.

Countries that lifted restrictions including mask wearing such as Czechs reinstated them as cases increased.

To propose that masks and distancing are more catastrophic than our current phase where hairdressers gyms cinemas restaurants are shut is utterly without foundation.

This is what I wrote in my original post re restrictions:

"The evidence is the past eight months of heavy restrictions on every aspect of our lives. Not a single restriction has been got rid of. There's also the fact that no country in the world, apart from the Cayman Islands, if I'm not mistaken, has got rid of masks completely."

'Not a single restriction has been got rid of' is specific to Ireland.

And I said that no country in the world has got rid of masks. I never said they hadn't lifted restrictions. Countries clearly have, but masks and distancing continue to be unique in having yet to be got rid of in a single country in the world. That is why I am arguing that there is no evidence that will ever be got rid of.

What restrictions were lifted in Ireland apart from being allowed to travel around the country? Practically every single place apart from shops has been more or less closed since March.

They brought masks back and case numbers and deaths continue to be through the roof. And masks clearly have done nothing in countries with 24/7 mask wearing because the case numbers and death figures continue to be enormous. The Spanish have been wearing the things since May. If there were at all effective the case numbers in Spain would be very low. And I was in Spain a couple of weeks and every single person wears the thing, so it's not because people aren't wearing them. It's a horrible sight, but that's beside the point.

I never said they were more catastrophic. I said that masks and distancing are the most catastrophic restrictions because of the damage they cause.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

Masks are only one tool for preventing the spread and you know it. Kids don't wear masks in school so it spreads there. People visiting each other don't wear them so it spreads there. Masks are for reducing other forms of community transmission.

They don't work. If they did the countries with 24/7 mask wearing wouldn't be the countries with the highest death and case numbers.

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

Lots of countries have restrictions for masks. Canada, Germany, France Holland Spain Denmark...

Its nothing to do with our underfunded health system.

Some of the duration of our lockdown yes is down to our ICU capacity.
But the notion it is a media driven pandemic is nonsense.

Can you honestly say you would have noticed there was a pandemic going on in Ireland were it not for the media? You would've noticed the terrible 1 and 2 cases a day pandemic that was raging in Ireland in the summer?

Tork

Fodla wrote: »

They don't work. If they did the countries with 24/7 mask wearing wouldn't be the countries with the highest death and case numbers.

What part of people don't wear masks when they're at school or visiting each other do you not understand?

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

What part of people don't wear masks when they're at school or visiting each other do you not understand?

But they definitely do in Spain and the Philippines. I was in Spain recently and they were them absolutely everywhere there. And I've been to the Philippines a few times and have friends there and they tell me that they wear them everywhere there too.

Tork

So you're telling me that people in these countries wear masks 24/7.