To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

So you're telling me that people in these countries wear masks 24/7.

Spain, absolutely. I saw it with my own eyes. I'm not certain about the Philippines cause it's over a year since I was last there. But friends of mine there say people wear them everywhere. They even wear visors over masks on public transport there. Masks on their own aren't enough. They've gone all out with masks.

Tork

In their houses?

an spailpin fanach

I don't think that wearing a mask is harmful and it's not much of an ask of people to wear them in enclosed public areas. While they are helpful, I don't agree that they're an antidote to catching the Covid. As has been pointed out, many countries require people to wear them outdoors even and there are still plenty of cases.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

In their houses?

I don't know for certain, but I would say highly likely. They're an extension of the face there at this stage.

Away With The Fairies

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Leave it so will ya. Go home and hide under the bed for the rest of time...

I have no desire to infect others and have no problem wearing masks. You on the other hand do want to infect others, so it's best you stay at home.

Pitch n Putt

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I have no desire to infect others and have no problem wearing masks. You on the other hand do want to infect others, so it's best you stay at home.

Casting great aspersions there with that post....

This sort of opinion that u have expressed is exactly everything that’s been created by this virus and masks etc.

Some society we’ve created....

Fodla

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Casting great aspirations there with that post....

This sort of opinion that u have expressed is exactly everything that’s been created by this virus and masks etc.

Some society we’ve created....

And the damage is clearly irreversible at this stage.

Away With The Fairies

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Casting great aspirations there with that post....

This sort of opinion that u have expressed is exactly everything that’s been created by this virus and masks etc.

Some society we’ve created....

You don't seem to be afraid of the virus but why are you afraid of masks? Do you see old people doing their shopping? Old people who's more at risk of this virus? Why can't you show a bit of respect towards them and wear a mask instead of infecting them? They might not live but you will.

Tork

Fodla wrote: »

I don't know for certain, but I would say highly likely. They're an extension of the face there at this stage.

I see. So you can't tell me for certain if people continue to wear masks once they close the front door of their homes or visit each other. You are largely basing this on what they do when they're out in public.

odyssey06

an spailpin fanach wrote: »

I don't think that wearing a mask is harmful and it's not much of an ask of people to wear them in enclosed public areas. While they are helpful, I don't agree that they're an antidote to catching the Covid. As has been pointed out, many countries require people to wear them outdoors even and there are still plenty of cases.

They are a precaution against an infected person spreading in - in specific settings. It means people who need to go out, especially vulnerable people, to purchase essential items, attend medical appointments, take public transport, have their risk of infection reduced.
But yes, they are only one piece of the equation.

Fodla

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

You don't seem to be afraid of the virus but why are you afraid of masks? Do you see old people doing their shopping? Old people who's more at risk of this virus? Why can't you show a bit of respect towards them and wear a mask instead of infecting them? They might not live but you will.

Professor Sucharit Bhakdi has pleaded with people to take off the masks. He said his mother in law almost died because of having to wear a mask.

The elderly should be encouraged to live, to smile. Not to wear that hideous thing that robs them of their humanity. It breaks my heart to see how fearful the elderly are.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

I see. So you can't tell me for certain if people continue to wear masks once they close the front door of their homes or visit each other. You are largely basing this on what they do when they're out in public.

I'm not certain, but I'll try to find out. I have friends in Spain. I'll ask them. But I would say that it is highly likely. And even if they didn't, should the fact that they wear them everywhere else not dramatically reduce the case numbers?

Pitch n Putt

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

You don't seem to be afraid of the virus but why are you afraid of masks? Do you see old people doing their shopping? Old people who's more at risk of this virus? Why can't you show a bit of respect towards them and wear a mask instead of infecting them? They might not live but you will.

The old granny killer line

odyssey06

Fodla wrote: »

This is what I wrote in my original post re restrictions:
"The evidence is the past eight months of heavy restrictions on every aspect of our lives. Not a single restriction has been got rid of. There's also the fact that no country in the world, apart from the Cayman Islands, if I'm not mistaken, has got rid of masks completely."

'Not a single restriction has been got rid of' is specific to Ireland.

And I said that no country in the world has got rid of masks. I never said they hadn't lifted restrictions. Countries clearly have, but masks and distancing continue to be unique in having yet to be got rid of in a single country in the world. That is why I am arguing that there is no evidence that will ever be got rid of.

Not a single restriction has been got rid of was wrong in the first instance, as it wasn't specified as being limited to Ireland.
And it was wrong in the second instance because we have seen restrictions lifted in Ireland on many areas, only for some to be reinstated again as cases rose.

You have for the second time ignored the countries such as Czech Republic which removed mandatory mask requirements and reinstated them when cases rose.

What restrictions were lifted in Ireland apart from being allowed to travel around the country? Practically every single place apart from shops has been more or less closed since March.

No they haven't. And it is complete and utter fabrication to suggest otherwise.
Were people imagining their visits to gyms, churches, cinemas, restaurants, hairdressers over the summer and early autumn?
Utter nonsense.

I never said they were more catastrophic. I said that masks and distancing are the most catastrophic restrictions because of the damage they cause.

I have no idea what this means, and once again it is stated without any support or foundation.

Tork

Just like in every other country, not all Spanish people are going around wearing masks 24/7.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-19/inside-madrids-underground-parties-if-the-police-arrive-you-say-you-didnt-pay-to-come-and-that-you-brought-your-own-drink.html

Away With The Fairies

Fodla wrote: »

Professor Sucharit Bhakdi has pleaded with people to take off the masks. He said his mother in law almost died because of having to wear a mask.

The elderly should be encouraged to live, to smile. Not to wear that hideous thing that ribs them of their humanity. It breaks my heart to see how fearful the elderly are.

My knickers almost killed me as well. Getting one leg in and I almost fell over. It doesn't make wearing knickers wrong. Same with masks.

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not a single restriction has been got rid of was wrong in the first instance, as it wasn't specified as being limited to Ireland.
And it was wrong in the second instance because we have seen restrictions lifted in Ireland on many areas, only for some to be reinstated again as cases rose.

You have for the second time ignored the countries such as Czech Republic which removed mandatory mask requirements and reinstated them when cases rose.



No they haven't. And it is complete and utter fabrication to suggest otherwise.
Were people imagining their visits to gyms, churches, cinemas, restaurants, hairdressers over the summer and early autumn?
Utter nonsense.



I have no idea what this means, and once again it is stated without any support or foundation.

I thought it was clear because the sentence before it specified 'our lives', i.e. Irish people's lives.

I didn't ignore it. I said bringing it back has made no difference. Case and death figures are still huge there. But you were right about the Czech Republic lifting the requirement. I should've acknowledged that.

Okay, but going to such places was a pretty miserable experience because of the two requirements that I have singled out for having the most catastrophic consequences of all the restrictions, i.e. masks and distancing.

They haven't really lifted any restrictions properly since March. Or even half lifted them. They've lifted them a tiny bit, but with restrictions. Its like over in the UK where they're going to come out of lockdown and go back into lockdown. They're just calling it Tier 3 or 4.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

Just like in every other country, not all Spanish people are going around wearing masks 24/7.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-19/inside-madrids-underground-parties-if-the-police-arrive-you-say-you-didnt-pay-to-come-and-that-you-brought-your-own-drink.html

In all public places, in every shop, every restaurant. Every apart from the home (possibly).

Fodla

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

My knickers almost killed me as well. Getting one leg in and I almost fell over. It doesn't make wearing knickers wrong. Same with masks.

Masks cause difficulty breathing, rash, dry skin (http://tulsabeacon.com/mask-lawsuit/). They can't be compared with knickers.

Tork

Fodla wrote: »

In all public places, in every shop, every restaurant. Every apart from the home (possibly).

So you accept that not everybody is wearing masks 24/7 and that some are engaging in behaviour that can spread the virus.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

So you accept that not everybody is wearing masks 24/7 and that some are engaging in behaviour that can spread the virus.

I do, but the fact that they wear them everywhere else and that case numbers are still huge suggests that masks are useless. Case numbers wouldn't be that high because of people not wearing them at home.

Tork

Fodla wrote: »

Masks cause difficulty breathing, rash, dry skin (http://tulsabeacon.com/mask-lawsuit/). They can't be compared with knickers.

So doctors, dentists, nurses and other medical professionals are endangering their lives when they wear masks?

Tork

Fodla wrote: »

I do, but the fact that they wear them everywhere else and that case numbers are still huge suggests that masks are useless. Case numbers wouldn't be that high because of people not wearing them at home.

People are not wearing them "everywhere" and you know it

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

So doctors, dentists, nurses and other medical professionals are endangering their lives when they wear masks?

They know how to wear them properly.

Fodla

Tork wrote: »

People are not wearing them "everywhere" and you know it

All I can go by is what I saw for myself in Madrid. Absolutely everywhere. And friends of mine in Spain tell me they're practically an extension of the face there at this stage.

Away With The Fairies

Fodla wrote: »

Masks cause difficulty breathing, rash, dry skin (http://tulsabeacon.com/mask-lawsuit/). They can't be compared with knickers.

You can get breathing difficulties with covid and have a machine breathe for you. But you would rather that than a mask?

Tork

So you believe that Juan goes to one of these parties and keeps his mask on for the entire duration of it. Then he goes to visit his parents and keeps his mask on for the entire time. His parents visit his granny and keep their masks on the whole time?

odyssey06

Fodla wrote: »

They know how to wear them properly.

Medical professionals and carers are wearing them as PPE because they are much likely to be dealing with infected patients. In that scenario, the most likely source of any virus is the patient.
You are not being asked to wear them as PPE, you are being asked to wear them as a barrier in case you are infected to stop you from spreading it. In that scenario the most likely source of any virus is the wearer.

Recent randomised study in Denmark for example, showed a slightly lower infection rate for those with masks than without. This could indicate a weak direct protective effect, or a placebo type effect where the wearing of masks made the wearer more likely to take precautions. It certainly did not show any danger to the mask wearing group.
But for the claim that masks are dangerous, this is without foundation.

Fodla

odyssey06 wrote: »

Medical professionals and carers are wearing them as PPE because they are much likely to be dealing with infected patients. In that scenario, the most likely source of any virus is the patient.
You are not being asked to wear them as PPE, you are being asked to wear them as a barrier in case you are infected to stop you from spreading it. In that scenario the most likely source of any virus is the wearer.

Recent randomised study in Denmark for example, showed a slightly lower infection rate for those with masks than without. This could indicate a weak direct protective effect, or a placebo type effect where the wearing of masks made the wearer more likely to take precautions. It certainly did not show any danger to the mask wearing group.
But for the claim that masks are dangerous, this is without foundation.

Then why did those doctors in Tulsa sue over the mask mandate?

Dr Vernon Coleman says masks are very dangerous: https://www.vernoncoleman.com/proofthatmasks.htm

He recently wrote a book on masks: http://www.vernoncoleman.com/bannedmaskbook.pdf

He quotes from scores of studies on masks.

odyssey06

Fodla wrote: »

Then why did those doctors in Tulsa sue over the mask mandate?

Dr Vernon Coleman says masks are very dangerous: https://www.vernoncoleman.com/proofthatmasks.htm

He recently wrote a book on masks: http://www.vernoncoleman.com/bannedmaskbook.pdf

He quotes from scores of studies on masks.

Money money money. That's why. People will lie, cheat and steal for it. They'll even put lies. embellishments, fabrications etc into books and try to flog it.

Find me a proper study that shows, as Coleman claims, for example, that "They also reduce oxygen levels and expose wearers to increased levels of carbon dioxide."

Here is the counter:
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/masks-oxygen-levels