To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats a ridiculous idea. Nobody sneezes and coughs into their mask. it would create an ugly mess. It'll be almost like deliberately pissing into your pants.

And if you could actually find someone disgusting and ignorant enough to do this - there is still no way this would happen often enough to any statistically meaningful degree.

The whole scenario lacks plausibility in a big way.

I sneeze into my mask and sneeze into my elbow at the same time. Do you know why? Because I'm not going to leave my germs for someone else. It's manners and respect in a pandemic. Which people seem to lack. Had someone in front of me in a queue who took of their mask to sneeze a few weeks ago. Pure ignorant of them.

And you calling them disgusting and ignorant for holding in their germs? Why do you want people to spread disease?

Graham

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Nobody sneezes and coughs into their mask. it would create an ugly mess. It'll be almost like deliberately pissing into your pants.

I hate to break it to you but pants aren't designed to prevent you spreading piss.

Seanergy

Man sentenced to two months in prison for face mask offence.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1217/1185094-mask-bus-eireann/

The garda witness said that when he entered the bus, he outlined the legislation to the defendant, telling him he was committing an offence under the Health Act 1947.

In evidence, Mr Heasman said he told the gardaí he was exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons. He said the garda had asked him for medical evidence but he replied that under data protection, he was not required to provide that information.

Away With The Fairies

Seanergy wrote: »

Man sentenced to two months in prison for face mask offence.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1217/1185094-mask-bus-eireann/

The garda witness said that when he entered the bus, he outlined the legislation to the defendant, telling him he was committing an offence under the Health Act 1947.

In evidence, Mr Heasman said he told the gardaí he was exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons. He said the garda had asked him for medical evidence but he replied that under data protection, he was not required to provide that information.

Is that you weldoninhio?

odyssey06

Seanergy wrote: »

Man sentenced to two months in prison for face mask offence.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1217/1185094-mask-bus-eireann/

The garda witness said that when he entered the bus, he outlined the legislation to the defendant, telling him he was committing an offence under the Health Act 1947.

In evidence, Mr Heasman said he told the gardaí he was exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons. He said the garda had asked him for medical evidence but he replied that under data protection, he was not required to provide that information.

You mean the magic words of GDPR don't work???
Inconceivable.

Graham

odyssey06 wrote: »

You mean the magic words of GDPR don't work???
Inconceivable.

nor does the self-proclaimed exemption it would appear.

CalamariFritti

Seanergy wrote: »

Here is a mask study that is fresh off the CDC press. Masks scored far better than unmasked. Note, One of the four limitations in this study was that parent report of frequency of mask or cloth face covering use at schools and child care programs was not verified. So with this in mind masks might even work better than scored.

...

Thanks I'll have a look at that but its quite a bit to take in and not obvious to get through to the nuts and bolts message.

CalamariFritti

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I sneeze into my mask and sneeze into my elbow at the same time. Do you know why? Because I'm not going to leave my germs for someone else. It's manners and respect in a pandemic. Which people seem to lack. Had someone in front of me in a queue who took of their mask to sneeze a few weeks ago. Pure ignorant of them.

And you calling them disgusting and ignorant for holding in their germs? Why do you want people to spread disease?

Why mask AND elbow? Seems you're Mister or Miss super vigilant but IMO it is a crazy assumption to make that people would sneeze into their mask. Its disgusting.

In bold: I don't. Why do you ask such a silly question?

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Why mask AND elbow? Seems you're Mister or Miss super vigilant but IMO it is a crazy assumption to make that people would sneeze into their mask. Its disgusting.

In bold: I don't. Why do you ask such a silly question?

In case you forgot, you said nobody sneezes into their mask and said it was disgusting and ignorant.

So what exactly do want them to do? Take off their mask to sneeze, because it's disgusting? That's spreading disease. That's more ignorant.

pottokblue

I sneeze into my mask/elbow and as I carry a few spares I usually change it after sneezing and use my handsanitiser that I always have on me.A French consumer study said that we can wash the surgical masks at a hightemp and reuse...

railer201

CalamariFritti wrote: »

........................Thats a ridiculous idea. Nobody sneezes and coughs into their mask. it would create an ugly mess. It'll be almost like deliberately pissing into your pants.

It is indeed

JP Liz V1

Seanergy wrote: »

Man sentenced to two months in prison for face mask offence.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1217/1185094-mask-bus-eireann/

The garda witness said that when he entered the bus, he outlined the legislation to the defendant, telling him he was committing an offence under the Health Act 1947.

In evidence, Mr Heasman said he told the gardaí he was exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons. He said the garda had asked him for medical evidence but he replied that under data protection, he was not required to provide that information.

Will Alan Kelly of Labour be joining him

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1339607862323064838

CalamariFritti

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

In case you forgot, you said nobody sneezes into their mask and said it was disgusting and ignorant.

So what exactly do want them to do? Take off their mask to sneeze, because it's disgusting? That's spreading disease. That's more ignorant.

Take off and sneeze into your elbow or hanky I mean.

And also why can't we just discuss this normally? Why always this strong language, accusations of spreading disease and ignorance?

CalamariFritti

railer201 wrote: »

It is indeed

...

This made me laugh, but its also quite ridiculous.
And sadly its also quite representative of this talking down tone in the whole mask debate. Like letting on people who see flaws in our response (and mask) logic are really too bold and thick and need to be talked to like children.
Thats a bit rich in a debate where there is no scientific conclusion and its not going to win anyone over.

Mrs OBumble

Thanks for this great analogy.

But lets be clear: aerosols are the issue.

If someone farts, no matter how thick their pants are, you will smell it, even if you are wearing pants (a mask). The only way to avoid this is by being far-enough way.

Two metres is a start. But only a start. The next room, with the door closed and no cross ventilation, it a lot better.

Pants are a handy social convention to keep things looking nice. But their effectiveness is limited.

railer201 wrote: »

It is indeed

odyssey06

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Take off and sneeze into your elbow or hanky I mean.
And also why can't we just discuss this normally? Why always this strong language, accusations of spreading disease and ignorance?

Sneeze into you elbow or handkerchief?
So a mask wont contain your droplets but your elbow will?

And a mask of shaped material which covers your mouth and nose wont stop the droplets... but a paper tissue will?
Do you sanitise your hands after using the tissue?

I think you just booby trapped your own arguments against masks as barriers.

Waiting for the model of droplet dispersal from elbow sneeze.

Seanergy

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Will Alan Kelly of Labour be joining him

Kelly was photographed on public transport he did not refuse to wear a mask.
Heasman refused to wear. Massive difference between the 2.

I don't have a transcript of today's case but rte say the Judge took a charge of a breach of public order on the same date into account. Heasman has a history of being anti-mask. AK says he forgot as he was distracted by his football on his phone but as someone rightly pointed out maybe a mask would have fogged up AK's glasses and impaired his viewing of his live football. He should have been questioned harder but he has a history of advocating for mask wearing he through his hands up in the air and possibly said sorry?

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/anti-mask-activist-appears-in-court-on-public-order-offences-39771360.html

Outside the Criminal Courts of Justice, activists John Waters and Gemma O’Doherty spoke along with Mr Heasman to a group of supporters who were bearing banners and flags.

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

aerosols are the issue.

If someone farts, no matter how thick their pants are, you will smell it, even if you are wearing pants (a mask). The only way to avoid this is by being far-enough way.

If you're farting droplets rather than gas you should probably reconsider your diet and most definitely wear a mask.

CalamariFritti

odyssey06 wrote: »

Sneeze into you elbow or handkerchief?
So a mask wont contain your droplets but your elbow will?

And a mask of shaped material which covers your mouth and nose wont stop the droplets... but a paper tissue will?
Do you sanitise your hands after using the tissue?

I think you just booby trapped your own arguments against masks as barriers.

Waiting for the model of droplet dispersal from elbow sneeze.

Sorry I'm obviously not clear enough.

I am not going to sneeze into my mask because I dot want to walk around with a thing thats dripping with snots in my face. I thought that was obvious.

And before anyone says it; I'm not carrying a supply of extra masks around. And while that may not be up to the most vigilant standards it will have to do. And i'd bet the house thats how the vast majority of people do it.

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Sorry I'm obviously not clear enough.

I am not going to sneeze into my mask because I dot want to walk around with a thing thats dripping with snots in my face. I thought that was obvious.

And before anyone says it; I'm not carrying a supply of extra masks around. And while that may not be up to the most vigilant standards it will have to do. And i'd bet the house thats how the vast majority of people do it.

So do you wear your manky mask all day? What do you do when it rains and it gets wet? You do know that masks are useless when wet?

CalamariFritti

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So do you wear your manky mask all day? What do you do when it rains and it gets wet? You do know that masks are useless when wet?

I dont wear my mask all day. I work from home since March. I wear my mask a few times a week for ten minutes when I go to the supermarket.

robinph

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I dont wear my mask all day. I work from home since March. I wear my mask a few times a week for ten minutes when I go to the supermarket.

So how much sneezing are you doing during that 10 minutes? If its that bad you should probably see a doctor about your allergies. Is it happening as soon as you put your mask on? Could be something in the fabric or your laundry detergent. Really should get this looked into.

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I dont wear my mask all day. I work from home since March. I wear my mask a few times a week for ten minutes when I go to the supermarket.

Has it ever rained while going to the shop? We live in Ireland, it must have. So do go around wearing a wet manky mask? It should be changed then. So I don't see why you're making such a fuss over changing a mask when you sneeze.

CalamariFritti

robinph wrote: »

So how much sneezing are you doing during that 10 minutes? If its that bad you should probably see a doctor about your allergies. Is it happening as soon as you put your mask on? Could be something in the fabric or your laundry detergent. Really should get this looked into.

I hardly sneeze ever. This exchange isn't about me. I think it originated from when I brought up those computer simulations with clouds of covid from sneezes. And questioned the plausibility of these simulations and ultimately the rationale behind this 'masks protect the others' mantra. As in who actually sneezes in shop like a maniac unprotected - covid or not. It went from there.

CalamariFritti

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Has it ever rained while going to the shop? We live in Ireland, it must have. So do go around wearing a wet manky mask? It should be changed then. So I don't see why you're making such a fuss over changing a mask when you sneeze.

I dont wear my mask going to the shop. I wear my mask in the shop.

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I dont wear my mask going to the shop. I wear my mask in the shop.

And then you take off your mask to sneeze in the shop? You shouldn't be doing that. It's disgusting and you said it yourself, you don't want to be spreading it.

robinph

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I hardly sneeze ever. This exchange isn't about me. I think it originated from when I brought up those computer simulations with clouds of covid from sneezes.

But you have claimed that it is disgusting for someone to sneeze whilst wearing a mask because they would then have a snotty mask and you said it would be much more civilised of them to remove their mask and sneeze into their elbow. You've also claimed to be very experienced in sneezing etiquette and what others might do, yet now your saying you hardly ever sneeze.

Not sure you are really the expert on the matter that you were claiming.

CalamariFritti

robinph wrote: »

But you have claimed that it is disgusting for someone to sneeze whilst wearing a mask because they would then have a snotty mask and you said it would be much more civilised of them to remove their mask and sneeze into their elbow. You've also claimed to be very experienced in sneezing etiquette and what others might do, yet now your saying you hardly ever sneeze.

Not sure you are really the expert on the matter that you were claiming.

Ah come lets not play silly games. We all have sneezing etiquette and that has nothing to do with covid. It comes together with all the other stuff you learn as a child like you dont urinate in the street or put your finger up your nose at the dinner table etc.

robinph

So are you disputing that an unmasked sneeze will spread droplets far and wide, or that wearing a mask whilst sneezing will stop those droplets spreading far and wide?

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Ah come lets not play silly games. We all have sneezing etiquette and that has nothing to do with covid. It comes together with all the other stuff you learn as a child like you dont urinate in the street or put your finger up your nose at the dinner table etc.

You feel a sneeze coming on, you'd want to be quick to remove your mask, pull out a tissue and get your elbow up your face. Nobody has that kind of quick reactions. At most you'll get your mask off, so you end up sneezing openly into a shared space. That is disgusting.