To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

CalamariFritti

odyssey06 wrote: »

This view you have of 'science' and pseudo-science and actual science is wrong.
It's an arbitrary standard you have set.
It's not the standard health authorities i.e. actual health scientists - laboratory studies, epidemiological data is science too.

To suggest the CDC recommendations are based on a lie is an argument utterly without merit or foundation.

To present the study from Denmark in the light you have is misrepresentation.
Simple as.
You well know its scope was about masks as PPE and you are asked to wear masks as barriers.

And you accuse the CDC of lies?

To tell you the truth that 'lies' thing didn't come from me. It was used first in a reply to me and while I wasn't comfortable with it I just went along with it.

I'd call it half truths,

I've seen the list of science for masks. I'm not ignorant, I've been reading a good few of those.

Its typically any number of the following:
- measuring droplets from a cough non-mask vs mask, animations of the same
- computer animations of clouds of covid wafting through a room
- the fabled virus that was found on a surface - in a room full of covid patients
- it is airborne (no, its not)

And of course each and every one of them make total sense and are true. These three are just an example.

What isn't really plausible is the leap from the above to the statement that masks are a necessarily mandated tool against the spread of covid. Because all empirical evidence suggests they dont really make a difference. And lately also the first ever real world study on the subject.

In the real world out there in supermarkets and shops and - god forbid - outside all these dont seem to add up to much. In fact the moment we mandated masks numbers went right up. And winter was still a long way away then.

And virtually no supermarket staff infections all through March and April.

And there is always Sweden.

They are either an effective tool and then we would see that in the numbers or they are not and then the hell with them.
Masks are a restriction. A restriction needs to stand up to scrutiny or else.

odyssey06

CalamariFritti wrote: »

What isn't really plausible is the leap from the above to the statement that masks are a necessarily mandated tool against the spread of covid. Because all empirical evidence suggests they dont really make a difference. And lately also the first ever real world study on the subject... And there is always Sweden.

Here you are again with the weasel words on the Denmark study.
When discussing the Denmark study, you use vague phrasing to create a delibertely misleading impression, when you know that it was not a study in relation to their use as 'restrictions' i.e. mandatory to protect others in public places but as PPE for the wearers.
Yet you throw out phrases like "all empircal evidence" utterly without foundation, without any attempt to engage with the real worlds cases and data presented by the CDC and others.

And Sweden are now recommending masks on public transport.

The evidence for masks is at least as good is not stronger than any of the data underlying other restrictions and measures such as distancing, hand washing \ sanitising.
There isn't a single proven case of fomite transmission.

Seanergy

'The system is overloaded': Nurses call for upgraded PPE

They are calling for the level of PPE in healthcare settings to be upgraded to FFP2 masks.

LINK

Glad they called to update their gear, better late than never.

Seanergy

CalamariFritti wrote: »

In the real world out there in supermarkets and shops and - god forbid - outside all these dont seem to add up to much. In fact the moment we mandated masks numbers went right up. And winter was still a long way away then.

And virtually no supermarket staff infections all through March and April.

As far as I remember data was not collected by HSPC for professions through March and April. Places of work were not asked or recorded unless case was a HCW and then only the role of HCW was recorded.



Your spewing covid-19 falsehoods unless you have proof of your statement.

HalfAndHalf

I really can’t get my head around mask deniers! It is the most simple logic required to understand how wearing a mask reduces the chance of breathing in or breathing out Covid infused droplets from your nose or mouth.

I genuinely wonder if something isn’t wired right to not be able to understand the benefit, or have the ability to simply Google to educate themselves.

Here’s a pretty simple article to follow to help understand that even a basic tissue paper mask helps reduce the chance of breathing in or breathing out Covid, onto a fellow human being, who could then go home and do the same to their elderly relative who then ends up in ICU.

https://www.fast.ai/2020/06/26/particle-sizes/

It’s either stupidity or selfishness.

CalamariFritti

Seanergy wrote: »

As far as I remember data was not collected by HSPC for professions through March and April. Places of work were not asked or recorded unless case was a HCW and then only the role of HCW was recorded.



Your spewing covid-19 falsehoods unless you have proof of your statement.

It was widely reported by the retailers themselves and was in all the papers at the time. Want me to google it for you?

Pitch n Putt

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

I really can’t get my head around mask deniers! It is the most simple logic required to understand how wearing a mask reduces the chance of breathing in or breathing out Covid infused droplets from your nose or mouth.

I genuinely wonder if something isn’t wired right to not be able to understand the benefit, or have the ability to simply Google to educate themselves.

Here’s a pretty simple article to follow to help understand that even a basic tissue paper mask helps rescues the chance of breathing in or breathing out Covid onto a fellow human being, who could then go home asymptomatic and do the same to their elderly relative who then ends up in ICU.

https://www.fast.ai/2020/06/26/particle-sizes/

It’s either stupidity or selfishness.

Remember though you have to have the virus to spread it.

If you want to go around believing you or everybody you meet has the virus that’s a choice for you to make.

Mass paronia is evident now and this will take time for once normal humans to return to normal.

This constant reliance on a piece of fabric on your face to feel reassured and to judge others in society by whether they have a mask or not is a knock on effect too.

These people have been battered with negativity and constant fear mongering for months on end.

Many don’t even realise how they have changed.

I and many more have no interest in living like that.

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Remember though you have to have the virus to spread it.

If you want to go around believing you or everybody you meet has the virus that’s a choice for you to make.

Mass paronia is evident now and this will take time for once normal humans to return to normal.

This constant reliance on a piece of fabric on your face to feel reassured and to judge others in society by whether they have a mask or not is a knock on effect too.

These people have been battered with negativity and constant fear mongering for months on end.

Many don’t even realise how they have changed.

I and many more have no interest in living like that.

Ah so mask denial is just another term for control paranoia that every government in the world is attempting to oppress their citizens forever more!

What harm is there is wearing something that helps protect yourself and others? How do you know if you or someone does or doesn’t have the virus?

How do you know that you won’t pass it on to a loved one who could end up in ICU or worse.

It’s a face mask, nobody’s asking you to walk around with a clear plastic bag over your head, zip tied around your neck and a broom up your arse so you can sweep as you go, it’s just a mask, and wearing them can help prevent yourself or someone else catching it, which in turn can bring the cases down which.........wait for it..........means we’ll all be back to normal sooner than if people don’t!!!

Pitch n Putt

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Ah so mask denial is just another term for control paranoia that every government in the world is attempting to oppress their citizens forever more!

What harm is there is wearing something that helps protect yourself and others? How do you know if you or someone does or doesn’t have the virus?

How do you know that you won’t pass it on to a loved one who could end up in ICU or worse.

It’s a face mask, nobody’s asking you to walk around with a clear plastic bag over your head, zip tied around your neck and a broom up your arse so you can sweep as you go, it’s just a mask, and wearing them can help prevent yourself or someone else catching it, which in turn can bring the cases down which.........wait for it..........means we’ll all be back to normal sooner than if people don’t!!!

Masks will have absolutely nothing to do with getting back to normal quicker.

When or what is going to be the trigger to dispose of masks once and for all ?

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Masks will have absolutely nothing to do with getting back to normal quicker.

When or what is going to be the trigger to dispose of masks once and for all ?

Is this a serious question? I can’t believe it’s a serious question but I’ll bite anyway.

Of course masks will have something to do with it, regardless of what you think, they do prevent people who have it and don’t know from the spreading it to some degree.

When there are only a handful of cases periodically I would assume.

Personally I’m gonna hang on to a few KN95 masks for when I start having to go back over to London for work. Keep all the crap out my lungs.

odyssey06

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Remember though you have to have the virus to spread it.
If you want to go around believing you or everybody you meet has the virus that’s a choice for you to make.
Mass paronia is evident now and this will take time for once normal humans to return to normal.
This constant reliance on a piece of fabric on your face to feel reassured and to judge others in society by whether they have a mask or not is a knock on effect too.
These people have been battered with negativity and constant fear mongering for months on end.
Many don’t even realise how they have changed.
I and many more have no interest in living like that.

You can be pre-symptomatic, asymptomatic and spread this virus.
You can think you have a head cold.
It is why it is so contagious.
If it floored you straight away, like say Ebola, it would not have the capacity to spread and flood public health systems that it does.

That's why we have to constantly rely on masks, distancing and other precautions... the virus only has to be lucky once to spread to you.
It's not paranoia when something is out to get you.
People are dying from this thing.

Wearing a mask isn't a sign of being battered by constant fear mongering, it is a sign of taking prudent precautions. No more than wearing a seat belt makes you a coward.
The rest of your post - mass paranoia ffs - is just delusional rantingfounded in wilful ignorance.
More worried about how this makes you look than taking steps to protect your fellow citizens.
As the baiss for an argumen it is Morally and intellectually bankrupt.

Pitch n Putt

odyssey06 wrote: »

You can be pre-symptomatic, asymptomatic and spread this virus.
You can think you have a head cold.
It is why it is so contagious.
If it floored you straight away, like say Ebola, it would not have the capacity to spread and flood public health systems that it does.

That's why we have to constantly rely on masks, distancing and other precautions... the virus only has to be lucky once to spread to you.
It's not paranoia when something is out to get you.
People are dying from this thing.

Wearing a mask isn't a sign of being battered by constant fear mongering, it is a sign of taking prudent precautions. No more than wearing a seat belt makes you a coward.
The rest of your post - mass paranoia ffs - is just delusional rantingfounded in wilful ignorance.
More worried about how this makes you look than taking steps to protect your fellow citizens.
As the baiss for an argumen it is Morally and intellectually bankrupt.

There was very little prudent precautions from March to August.

All these amazing precautions only appeared once masks were made mandatory in August.

Once again masks are simply used by the majority of people as a means to go into places

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

There was very little prudent precautions from March to August.

All these amazing precautions only appeared once masks were made mandatory in August.

Once again masks are simply used by the majority of people as a means to go into places

So basically you’re intentionally ignorant to anything to do with a worldwide pandemic that has impacted 92 million people and killed nearly 2 million!!

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0320/1124478-the-new-normal-irish-society-adjusts-to-virus-threat/

Masks and social distancing back in March!

It’s grand though, you go in the ‘part of the problem’ column is all, don’t worry there’s plenty like you, we unfortunately live in a world with more and more self serving, self centred people who make the world just that little bit worse to live in.

Pitch n Putt

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So basically you’re intentionally ignorant to anything to do with a worldwide pandemic that has impacted 92 million people and killed nearly 2 million!!

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0320/1124478-the-new-normal-irish-society-adjusts-to-virus-threat/

Masks and social distancing back in March!

It’s grand though, you go in the ‘part of the problem’ column is all, don’t worry there’s plenty like you, we unfortunately live in a world with more and more self serving, self centred people who make the world just that little bit worse to live in.

Hilarious rant.

The vast majority of people use masks as a means end of story.

You can dress it up anyway you want but thats the reality.

Very few people were using them until they became mandatory.

Part of the problem column :rolleyes:

Lord God people have really lost the run of themselves.

Seanergy

CalamariFritti wrote: »

It was widely reported by the retailers themselves and was in all the papers at the time. Want me to google it for you?

Give us a laugh, reported by the retailers, widely.....


official data only, not an article from a journalist cold calling supermarkets!

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Hilarious rant.

The vast majority of people use masks as a means end of story.

You can dress it up anyway you want but thats the reality.

Very few people were using them until they became mandatory.

Part of the problem column :rolleyes:

Lord God people have really lost the run of themselves.

You find it hilarious because you can happily ignore the facts by lying to yourself. You don’t follow advice by public health experts in the field of epidemiology, you think you’re more intelligent than those people, so yes, you’re very much part of the problem.

You spout utter nonsense convinced what you say is true yet you couldn’t be more wrong.

The hilarity is actually that you’re on here spouting conspiracy theories that it’s all government control, yet can’t see that fact you’re utterly delusional!

The irony is, that’s an oxymoron, and what you are is also in that word, and it’s not the oxy bit!

Pitch n Putt

Seanergy wrote: »

Give us a laugh, reported by the retailers, widely.....


official data only, not an article from a journalist cold calling supermarkets!

No supermarkets had to close because of a major outbreak even though it was the only place people interacted outside of work settings.

In fact the strange thing was the first mention of any case in a supermarket setting was the week of the 10th of August 2020

The very week mandatory mask wearing was introduced. We had Dr Ronan Glynn mention it a a briefing that week.

It was a huge coincidence or perhaps not.

Not one report of any case for 5 months in these settings but immediately the week of introducing mandatory masks supermarkets had an outbreak.

Seanergy

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Mass paronia is evident now and this will take time for once normal humans to return to normal.

This constant reliance on a piece of fabric on your face to feel reassured and to judge others in society by whether they have a mask or not is a knock on effect too.

That's very offensive, judging mask wearer's of being paronoid and not being normal.


By your logic we will only return to normal and stop being paronoid once we unmask, so I will just live with myself until then.

Pitch n Putt

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

You find it hilarious because you can happily ignore the facts by lying to yourself. You don’t follow advice by public health experts in the field of epidemiology, you think you’re more intelligent than those people, so yes, you’re very much part of the problem.

You spout utter nonsense convinced what you say is true yet you couldn’t be more wrong.

The hilarity is actually that you’re on here spouting conspiracy theories that it’s all government control, yet can’t see that fact you’re utterly delusional!

The irony is, that’s an oxymoron, and what you are is also in that word, and it’s not the oxy bit!

Never mentioned anything about conspiracy theories. You put that in yourself.

I’ll think for myself and the sheep can follow the rest if they like.

If you frighten the sheep enough about the wolf they will take everything they are told to protect them from the wolf as gospel.


And less of the insults please.
People are entitled to their own opinions without being insulted by some anonymous poster.

HalfAndHalf

Seanergy wrote: »

That's very offensive, judging mask wearer's of being paronoid and not being normal.


By your logic we will only return to normal and stop being paronoid once we unmask, so I will just live with myself until then.

I wouldn’t take offence, he’s no idea what’s going on sure! Clearly hasn’t a TV or the ability to read a paper as no matter what facts are presented he just ignores it and rants on about the great oppressors controlling us with masks! LOL!

railer201

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Remember though you have to have the virus to spread it.

If you want to go around believing you or everybody you meet has the virus that’s a choice for you to make.

Mass paronia is evident now and this will take time for once normal humans to return to normal.

This constant reliance on a piece of fabric on your face to feel reassured and to judge others in society by whether they have a mask or not is a knock on effect too.

These people have been battered with negativity and constant fear mongering for months on end.

Many don’t even realise how they have changed.

I and many more have no interest in living like that.

Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean Covid 19 isn't out to get us !

Pitch n Putt

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

I wouldn’t take offence, he’s no idea what’s going on sure! Clearly hasn’t a TV or the ability to read a paper as no matter what facts are presented he just ignores it and rants on about the great oppressors controlling us with masks! LOL!

Again I didn’t mention anything about anyone controlling us by making us wear masks.

Keep making up what I said if you like

I suppose don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story.

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Never mentioned anything about conspiracy theories. You put that in yourself.

I’ll think for myself and the sheep can follow the rest if they like.

If you frighten the sheep enough about the wolf they will take everything they are told to protect them from the wolf as gospel.


And less of the insults please.
People are entitled to their own opinions without being insulted by some anonymous poster.

Ah I give up with ye!

You’re just here on a wind up!

You just contradict yourself with every post, you spout conspiracies about control etc yet don’t think they’re conspiracies. You insult people who don’t agree with you (the majority of us) and call us sheep yet don’t like insults. Hypocrite much?!?!

Good luck, you need it!

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Remember though you have to have the virus to spread it.

If you want to go around believing you or everybody you meet has the virus that’s a choice for you to make.

Mass paronia is evident now and this will take time for once normal humans to return to normal.

This constant reliance on a piece of fabric on your face to feel reassured and to judge others in society by whether they have a mask or not is a knock on effect too.

These people have been battered with negativity and constant fear mongering for months on end.

Many don’t even realise how they have changed.

I and many more have no interest in living like that.

Reads very much as you saying that the government's mandatory mask policy is there to induce fear and paranoia and people are so brainwashed they don’t even realise.

THIS is a conspiracy theory of government control!

Your words not mine so please don’t accuse me of making things up!

CalamariFritti

Seanergy wrote: »

Give us a laugh, reported by the retailers, widely.....


official data only, not an article from a journalist cold calling supermarkets!

There is no official data on that as you know. But IIRC they gave specific numbers except for Supervalue and it was all low single digit and those few could have gotten it at home or elsewhere too.
That may not be official but I find it quite credible. Do you think we way we carry on about covid that it would have been possible to conceal supermarket outbreaks?

Pitch n Putt

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Reads very much as you saying that the government's mandatory mask policy is there to induce fear and paranoia and people are so brainwashed they don’t even realise.

THIS is a conspiracy theory of government control!

Your words not mine so please don’t accuse me of making things up!

Doesn’t actually read like that at all.

The fear and paronia has been caused by the constant barrage of negativity and fear mongering by the media.

You brought conspiracy into it somehow.

HalfAndHalf

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Doesn’t actually read like that at all.

The fear and paronia has been caused by the constant barrage of negativity and fear mongering by the media.

You brought conspiracy into it somehow.

Backtracking now. Whatever helps you sleep buddy.....good luck.

Seanergy

CalamariFritti wrote: »

In fact the moment we mandated masks numbers went right up. And winter was still a long way away then.

And virtually no supermarket staff infections all through March and April.

Seanergy wrote: »

As far as I remember data was not collected by HSPC for professions through March and April. Places of work were not asked or recorded unless case was a HCW and then only the role of HCW was recorded.

Your spewing covid-19 falsehoods unless you have proof of your statement.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

It was widely reported by the retailers themselves and was in all the papers at the time. Want me to google it for you?

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There is no official data on that as you know. But........
That may not be official but I find it quite credible. Do you think we way we carry on about covid that it would have been possible to conceal supermarket outbreaks?

There are no but's about it, that talk belongs in conspiracy and lies, there is no official data for supermarkets for March and April.


Stop spewing covid-19 lies.

CalamariFritti

Seanergy wrote: »

There are no but's about it, that talk belongs in conspiracy and lies, there is no official data for supermarkets for March and April.


Stop spewing covid-19 lies.

Very funny. I admire your spirited (but misguided) attempt at controlling the discussion that way, but you're not going to get away with that sh1te I'm afraid.

There are covid-denier, conspiracy theory things out there with covid, no doubt, but this aint one of them and you know it. That covid-denier, conspiracy theory cancel nonsense will only go so far. Get real.

Sconsey

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

No supermarkets had to close because of a major outbreak even though it was the only place people interacted outside of work settings.

In fact the strange thing was the first mention of any case in a supermarket setting was the week of the 10th of August 2020

The very week mandatory mask wearing was introduced. We had Dr Ronan Glynn mention it a a briefing that week.

It was a huge coincidence or perhaps not.

Not one report of any case for 5 months in these settings but immediately the week of introducing mandatory masks supermarkets had an outbreak.

Do you know what the term 'community transmission' means? it means that we have no idea where a person contracted the virus from. Why don't you go and check the percentages of transmission that were community based. So the experts are telling us they have no clue where the transmission happened but you imply it was not in supermarkets, even though you say yourself that they were one of the only places people interacted. How do you know all this when the experts say they dont know.

Your sarcastic smilies make more sense than any of your arguments.