Tour de France 2020 | Stage 11 (Châtelaillon-Plage to Poitiers) - 167.5km

dave_o_brien

CMcsporty wrote: »

Sheen is coming off.
Usually happens to lads when they realise they arent the same athletes they once were.
Why so serious now:pac:

The "sheen" on Sagan was always a bit suspect. Fabulous racer, amazing bike handling skills, always seemed a bit of a d!ck. I suppose expecting athletes to be good people just because they're athletic is a fools errand.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Sagan has a lot of speed going up the side and Van Aert is veering slighty right (have a look at the road line and you'll see he is moving away from it).You could argue that if he doesn't give a nudge he could get cornered in towards the barrier.

You could argue it, but the onus is on the person from behind to pass the person in front safely. If they can't, they've made an error. He's gone for a gap that wasn't there. He did what he needed to do to avoid a crash (and thankfully nobody else crashed either) but he should accept a bit of abuse from his fellow riders and be contrite enough to say "my bad, no harm intended".

North of 32

Caleb Ewan is unreal. The speed and timing of the guy is just phenomenal. He'll take some beating in Paris.

CMcsporty

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Elbow notwithstanding, Sagan was wheel-to-wheel with the fastest finishers in the bunch. Its not as if he yeeted Quintana into the crowd in a gallop for 80th place.

He may not be what he was, but he's still pretty damn fast.

Of course.

It's the classic old story of an athletes powers fading.
Hence the lashing out at Van Aert after the race even though he was in the wrong.
Angry with the world because he cant handle that his edge is gone.

Refractions

North of 32 wrote: »

Caleb Ewan is unreal. The speed and timing of the guy is just phenomenal. He'll take some beating in Paris.

I don't know if he's actually any faster than Sam, just a cuter hoor of a bike racer. Sam needs wing mirrors in his shades as Ewan tends to use him as his leadout man.

Weepsie

dave_o_brien wrote: »

The "sheen" on Sagan was always a bit suspect. Fabulous racer, amazing bike handling skills, always seemed a bit of a d!ck. I suppose expecting athletes to be good people just because they're athletic is a fools errand.



You could argue it, but the onus is on the person from behind to pass the person in front safely. If they can't, they've made an error. He's gone for a gap that wasn't there. He did what he needed to do to avoid a crash (and thankfully nobody else crashed either) but he should accept a bit of abuse from his fellow riders and be contrite enough to say "my bad, no harm intended".

The gap was there though. He was halfway through it before van aerts line changed. Ewan squeezed himself through a very similar tight one in an earlier stage too

Speak Now

Mefistofelino wrote: »

I retract - Sam would have got upgraded to 30 points in that sprint, Sagan 0 increase there is 30

However it seems Sagan was also docked the intermediate sprint points. why, I don't know - didn't think they were allowed do that.

They still have Sagan down for the 13 pts in the result of the sprint but took all pts off him won on the day in the overall. Must be an error.

Inquitus

Speak Now wrote: »

They still have Sagan down for the 13 pts in the result of the sprint but took all pts off him won on the day in the overall. Must be an error.

That's not correct. But the rulebook says you get relegated + you lose 25% of the points, which the stage win was worth. 25% of 50 is 12.5, rule says you round up. So there you go: 13 points.
Only a coincidence that it's also the same that he got at intermediate sprint.

MPFGLB

Sagan would need to win tomorrow to be back in the game

CMcsporty

Weepsie wrote: »

The gap was there though. He was halfway through it before van aerts line changed. Ewan squeezed himself through a very similar tight one in an earlier stage too

I dont think so!

https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/1303726820760653825?s=20

Inquitus

MPFGLB wrote: »

Sagna would need to win tomorrow to be back in the game

Aye I noted tomorrow as a stage Bora could ditch the sprinters, he could get a big haul if there is no big break.

who_ru

I think Ewan is in Sam's head now, he follows Sam's wheel as mentioned and pips him on the line more often than not. Ultimately i think he just has better know how in the bunch sprint situation.

happytramp

who_ru wrote: »

I think Ewan is in Sam's head now, he follows Sam's wheel as mentioned and pips him on the line more often than not. Ultimately i think he just has better know how in the bunch sprint situation.

It's his team's fault too... They know it's going to happen but they do nothing to stop it... When it was Sam v Viviani and quickstep in the Giro a few years ago they pulled out every trick in the book to keep Sam off his wheel.

Eamonnator

Inquitus wrote: »

That's not correct. But the rulebook says you get relegated + you lose 25% of the points, which the stage win was worth. 25% of 50 is 12.5, rule says you round up. So there you go: 13 points.
Only a coincidence that it's also the same that he got at intermediate sprint.

Will you run that by me again , please.
I understand the 25% of the 50 points for the win: 12.5 points.
But Sagan didn't win.

who_ru

happytramp wrote: »

It's his team's fault too... They know it's going to happen but they do nothing to stop it... When it was Sam v Viviani and quickstep in the Giro a few years ago they pulled out every trick in the book to keep Sam off his wheel.

i'm at a loss to understand it as they (DQS) should have at least 2 more stage wins that Sam could have won if they adopted the same approach. Very strange.

CMcsporty

who_ru wrote: »

I think Ewan is in Sam's head now, he follows Sam's wheel as mentioned and pips him on the line more often than not. Ultimately i think he just has better know how in the bunch sprint situation.

Maybe he can switch it on Ewan now?
Sagan might be out of the picture a little after the next two stages.
Stage 14 Sam might have another chance before the Alps. He could afford to sit on Ewan's wheel a bit more.

Eamonnator

Cycling Statistics have Sagan on 175 points, the same as he had before the stage.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2020/stage-11-points

Inquitus

Eamonnator wrote: »

Will you run that by me again , please.
I understand the 25% of the 50 points for the win: 12.5 points.
But Sagan didn't win.

The fine for exclusion in the sprint is the loss of your points plus a fine of 25% of the points available to the winner, in this case 50 * .25 = 12.5, rounds up to 13.

Eamonnator

Inquitus wrote: »

The fine for exclusion in the sprint is the loss of your points plus a fine of 25% of the points available to the winner, in this case 50 * .25 = 12.5, rounds up to 13.

Got it.
And you wrote it slowly, so I could understand. Thanks.

c.p.w.g.w

Just seen the finish, it was lucky van arte is a good bike handler...crazy from Sagan, looked proper dangerous

dave_o_brien

Weepsie wrote: »

The gap was there though. He was halfway through it before van aerts line changed. Ewan squeezed himself through a very similar tight one in an earlier stage too

I disagree with your view on WVA's line. He only changed line when forced to by an elbow.

I don't think what Sagan did was *that* bad, mind. I think the punishment is appropriate. It just sounds like he reacted like a bit of a kn*b, which sounds about right from his reputation.

CowboyTed

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Sagan has a lot of speed going up the side and Van Aert is veering slighty right (have a look at the road line and you'll see he is moving away from it).You could argue that if he doesn't give a nudge he could get cornered in towards the barrier.

Simply Sam had Sagan boxed in. Sam was making sure he beat Sagan, Sagan legally had nowhere to go and he came up the inside... Sagan is not allowed to leave his line and he clearly did to give himself space. That is highly dangerous and the punishment came...

Eamonnator

I find it easier to pick Sam out in the bunch, when he wears his Irish helmet.

CowboyTed

who_ru wrote: »

I think Ewan is in Sam's head now, he follows Sam's wheel as mentioned and pips him on the line more often than not. Ultimately i think he just has better know how in the bunch sprint situation.

Sam wasn't in a comfortable position and Ewan had him today... I think it is very tight between them. Sam was marking Sagan out of it today and keeping on the boards on the way in....

Ewan and Sam are the big winners today... Paris sprint could be special..

CowboyTed

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye I noted tomorrow as a stage Bora could ditch the sprinters, he could get a big haul if there is no big break.

The sprint will be contested but Sagan could make hay tomorrow... Suits him... Maybe Dan Martin could make a break on the last Cat 2...

CowboyTed

CMcsporty wrote: »

Maybe he can switch it on Ewan now?
Sagan might be out of the picture a little after the next two stages.
Stage 14 Sam might have another chance before the Alps. He could afford to sit on Ewan's wheel a bit more.

You are right, Get through Thursday and Saturday and last weeks two sprints stages suit Sam.... Might need a breakaway, let Bora burn the team chasing...

Thud

CMcsporty wrote: »

Of course.

It's the classic old story of an athletes powers fading.
Hence the lashing out at Van Aert after the race even though he was in the wrong.
Angry with the world because he cant handle that his edge is gone.

not really, Sagan was never an out and out sprinter so only beats these guys when stage conditions are right and he was less than a wheel away today. he's always been cantankerous and controversial,

De Bhál

What potentially could've been a boring couple of days ahead with breaks winning, now look exciting enough.

Mefistofelino

Inquitus wrote: »

The fine for exclusion in the sprint is the loss of your points plus a fine of 25% of the points available to the winner, in this case 50 * .25 = 12.5, rounds up to 13.

If that extra 12.5% fine was around in Kelly & Vanderarden's time, they'd still be paying back points to this day.

G1032

Mefistofelino wrote: »

If that extra 12.5% fine was around in Kelly & Vanderarden's time, they'd still be paying back points to this day.

:D

https://twitter.com/Sammmy_Be/status/1303764825730842625