PS5 or Xbox Series X ?

Retr0gamer

I kind of doubt 60 FPS will stick. Every gen they promise 60 FPS and every gen the visual fidelity increase on doing to 30 FPS is just too much. Graphics sell, not framerates. It would be nice if the practice of 30 FPS 4K or 60 FPS 1080p/1440p continues.

johnny_ultimate

Yeah I’m sure if it does stick it will be with performance / fidelity options. Looking at Demon’s Souls it does seem like a very minor difference between the two options, in no way worth the halved frame rate, so seems like a no brainer in that case (one of the developers said as as much on Digital Foundry). Miles Morales does seem to look significantly improved when Ray-tracing is on for those skyscrapers - but for basic gameplay I don’t think you’d even notice its absence unless you stop to have a look around, so again 30FPS would be a big hit for the benefit. We’ll see where we go over the next year or so.

wes

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I've noticed in the last generation consoles are becoming more and more complex for users and more and more like PC gaming. Consoles are becoming more complex to set up and use while PC accessibility and usability has grown and they've never been easier to use. They'll probably meet eventually and be indistinguishable.

And now console games have graphics options

I would say they are pretty much PCs already. Xbox is running a custom windows 10 and PS5 is some form of BSD (assuming as PS4 was based on FreeBSD, not heard yet if they are still using for PS5), with there own custom UI.

Games will mostly be 30FPS once we get past this initial cross-gen phase.

Performance/quality options only existed because of the mid-gen consoles. Games had to work on base systems which meant there was CPU headroom on the Pro / OneX. So these options will also probably go away once we get a couple of years into next-gen.

McFly85

I’ve been thinking the next generation will have 60fps become more commonplace ever since playing the Ridge Racer Hi Spec demo that came with Type 4, but graphical fidelity has always taken priority.

I am thinking this generation will be different though! We’re starting to see diminishing returns between console generations and more people are actively interested in performance over graphics. I mean which would you prefer? Bloodborne with ray tracing or a smooth 60fps framerate?

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

Games will mostly be 30FPS once we get past this initial cross-gen phase.

Performance/quality options only existed because of the mid-gen consoles. Games had to work on base systems which meant there was CPU headroom on the Pro / OneX. So these options will also probably go away once we get a couple of years into next-gen.

Except we have the Series S, which is a lower end console than the Series X.

Also, with the option already been offered for half of last gen, I think people have gotten use to it. I don't think offering the option is that big a deal, as they have to offer scalability for PC already. Offering 2 modes for consoles one 60 fps no ray tracing, and one 4k with ray tracing, should not be that hard.

Retr0gamer

What kind of excites me is how incapable these consoles are. They already look to be struggling to do ray tracing at 4K, something other than a high end PC will as well. What we will see is the likes of Sony's development group come up with cleverer ways to have ray tracing without tanking performance. Same thing happened last gen and with the PS3. For instance the PS3 was utterly useless at anti aliasing which lead to Sony developing new AA techniques which are the basis for the AA techniques we have now. Same with the sexy voxel grid lighting effects we are seeing at the end of this gen.

Digital Foundry is going to be fun.

TitianGerm

McFly85 wrote: »

I’ve been thinking the next generation will have 60fps become more commonplace ever since playing the Ridge Racer Hi Spec demo that came with Type 4, but graphical fidelity has always taken priority.

I am thinking this generation will be different though! We’re starting to see diminishing returns between console generations and more people are actively interested in performance over graphics. I mean which would you prefer? Bloodborne with ray tracing or a smooth 60fps framerate?

*Insert why not both meme here*

wes

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What kind of excites me is how incapable these consoles are. They already look to be struggling to do ray tracing at 4K, something other than a high end PC will as well. What we will see is the likes of Sony's development group come up with cleverer ways to have ray tracing without tanking performance. Same thing happened last gen and with the PS3. For instance the PS3 was utterly useless at anti aliasing which lead to Sony developing new AA techniques which are the basis for the AA techniques we have now. Same with the sexy voxel grid lighting effects we are seeing at the end of this gen.

Digital Foundry is going to be fun.

Watch Dogs: Legion - how does console ray tracing compare to Nvidia RTX?


Already starting !

Retr0gamer

I think the issue is that these consoles are basically to Ray Tracing what the PS1 was to 3D. The PS1 could do 3D to an acceptable level.... and nothing more. These consoles are basically they can do ray tracing but you have a choice of reflections, shadows or global illumination but not all at the same time, or 2 of them with compromises. Everything else will still be rendered with traditional techniques.

The real end game is to have everything rendered with rays, no messing about with approximations but I'm pretty sure that even on PC Quake 2 is the only game that does that, maybe minecraft.

And even then there's a possibility that polygons get left behind as old tech and we move to voxels, although that in and of itself will require an almost entire reinventing of the wheel in how we code animation, physics and interactions.

skerry

wes wrote: »

Watch Dogs: Legion - how does console ray tracing compare to Nvidia RTX?


Already starting !

"The reflection of a puddle on the ground will, for example, show reflective properties when its reflected in a reflection"

This is going to be a confusing generation

CastorTroy

I know a wise man once said "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
But honestly, I've never stopped to look around in a game and think I wish that surface was more reflective. Unless you need it to be part of a game like to fight Medusa or something, I wouldn't be bothered if it wasn't implemented.

Hey_Listen

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It’s always the hope for a new console gen, but we’ve finally hit the point where developers are committed to providing 60 FPS - at least as an option. Definitely a good thing. Very interested to see if it carries through when the more complex, dedicated next-gen game start dropping.

And then let the 120 FPS arms race commence. Maybe by PS7 they’ll get there! (I’d have put an Xbox reference in there too, but I’m not foolish enough to try to guess the naming conventions of future Xbox machines! Xbox Series Ω?)

"New Xbox"

Jordan 199

On the subject of the new Xbox's and Microsoft's purchase of Zenimax (which owns Bethesda Softworks), is there a chance that some new Bethesda titles that will appear down the line will only become available on game pass?

Retr0gamer

Jordan 199 wrote: »

On the subject of the new Xbox's and Microsoft's purchase of Zenimax (which owns Bethesda Softworks), is there a chance that some new Bethesda titles that will appear down the line will only become available on game pass?

They won't come to Playstation but very much doubt they will be gamepass only.

Hey_Listen

I think games are limited by design and hardware. Companies who can't design good games regularly keep relying on hardware improvements to sell the same game over and over. Looking at you AC Valhalla, Fifa, ...

60 FPS 4K HDR is now possible as standard! Hopefully companies aim for new experiences and better game design now. Not the same old stuff at 120 FPS or better detail and raytracing at 30 FPS.

There are exceptions, like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, 60 FPS on Switch and 120 FPS on XBox One X. But I think they are making that investment, including their own version of Unity, to get their next game(s), including an RPG, on a range of machines from Switch to Xbox Series X.

quokula

McFly85 wrote: »

I’ve been thinking the next generation will have 60fps become more commonplace ever since playing the Ridge Racer Hi Spec demo that came with Type 4, but graphical fidelity has always taken priority.

I am thinking this generation will be different though! We’re starting to see diminishing returns between console generations and more people are actively interested in performance over graphics. I mean which would you prefer? Bloodborne with ray tracing or a smooth 60fps framerate?

Neither. Currently all games are still targeting last gen assets and level of detail. And then to use up all the extra power available they're making a choice between just upping the framerate, or just implementing ray tracing. Neither option particularly enhances the experience (I know some people are very framerate sensitive, but for the majority of games 30FPS is fine, borne out by the fact that many of the most popular and critically acclaimed games of all time run at 30.

What I want to see, and what I expect will inevitably happen over the next year or two, is games that are properly designed for the new consoles, which means more details assets with higher poly counts and higher texture resolutions, which will add far more to the visuals than ray tracing. There are also so many more possibilities with larger numbers of characters on screen, more props, vehicles, projectiles, shrapnel, objects etc depending on what suits a particular genre or game.

I expect to see character animations in particular to come on in leaps and bounds as there is more power to dedicate to animation blending, IK and other techniques, and the possibility for higher bone counts, allowing for better facial expressions and stronger detail in gameplay with more accurate foot planting on uneven terrain, interacting with walls and surfaces and the like. This stuff is a far more effective use of clock cycles than more accurate reflections in puddles.

johnny_ultimate

30 FPS is ‘fine’ and ‘tolerable’ at very best. If it’s absolutely rock solid and the visual boost is worth it, then I’ll reluctantly accept it (e.g. The Last of Us 2) But 60 FPS is objectively smoother and more responsive - jump from a 30 to a 60 mode or game (eg in the recent Mario collection) and the different is unambiguous and incredibly jarring. If there’s any drops or frame pacing issues, than 30 is particularly distracting. I’d have once been of the ‘30 FPS is grand’ crowd. Happy to admit I was wrong there - playing more on PC and seeing the benefits didn’t hurt, naturally!

Of course great games have run at 30 FPS - Bloodborne is one of the best games ever despite running like crap. But nearly every great game at that frame rate would be enhanced if it ran faster. I can’t wait to finally play The Last Guardian at 60 FPS in a few days - the game was a masterpiece already, but no doubt the technical issues were striking and unfortunate at launch. Now it’ll run at its full potential - nothing to distract from Team Ico’s incredible work.

Developers do understand the benefits of higher frame rates, but last gen machines were so frugal with compute power big sacrifices had to be made. This gen there’s a generous leap in power, and the visual upgrades are inevitably modest (just due to games already looking spectacular). So I’d hold out hope more and more games do target 60 FPS or higher. Some won’t, but let’s hope high frame rate options at least become much more commonplace. There are causes for optimism:

https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1327354539247345664?s=21

Chris_Heilong

There are a number of people saying the PS5 crashing and bricking, Anyone heard any of this? We can see everyone's favorite youtuber talk about it.

Retr0gamer

Bandwagon outrage hopper. The major outlets will cover it if it really is an issue.

johnny_ultimate

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Bandwagon outrage hopper.

NEW VIDEO - PLEASE SHARE!!!!!

Brie Larson is GOING INTO PEOPLE’S HOUSES and KICKING their Playstation 5s.

(Duration: 25 minutes long. Based on one tweet with no likes. Video 17 of the day).

sniper_samurai

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Bandwagon outrage hopper. The major outlets will cover it if it really is an issue.

Seems to be occurring when people turn off the console while rebuilding the database. Leaving Spiderman Remastered on in rest mode seems to be causing it to require a rebuild

CastorTroy

Brie Larson is breaking into people's houses? Grand by me. Though we'd probably get Mrs Brown.

I have seen things about going into rest mode while playing Spider-man and something about external drives. I guess this is why we have American beta testers.

Both consoles will have a certain number of issues, it's just the way it goes. Due to the huge numbers sold, even if 0.5% have issues - when they all run to twitter, it will seem as though the problems are endemic.

Some of these issues sound like terminal hardware faults - failing GPUs etc. Others can be software bugs. Getting it a week later is not a bad thing in the latter case. It's obvious from the missing features that Sony have come in hot with the OS, i'm sure the updates will come thick & fast.

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll be sorted under warranty if you're one of the unlucky ones.

Chris_Heilong

Deleted User wrote: »

Both consoles will have a certain number of issues, it's just the way it goes. Due to the huge numbers sold, even if 0.5% have issues - when they all run to twitter, it will seem as though the problems are endemic.

Some of these issues sound like terminal hardware faults - failing GPUs etc. Others can be software bugs. Getting it a week later is not a bad thing in the latter case. It's obvious from the missing features that Sony have come in hot with the OS, i'm sure the updates will come thick & fast.

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll be sorted under warranty if you're one of the unlucky ones.

I agree, the system I had the most trouble with was the PS1, It was back when you could rent them and almost every one had issues reading discs. You would have to put them up on one side or turn the console upside down(I remember being told this by the shops renting them out). When I eventually got my own a few months later it started to stutter during cut scenes in games or the music would cut out, got it replaced on warranty and neve had an issue again. Xbox 360 RRD and PS3 harddrive failure also happened me within the first year of ownership.

Thecageyone

Am I the only one not impressed in the slightest by what I've seen so far from either console? Maybe I expected too much? a giant leap like previous 'next gen' releases ... I dunno, I'm not seeing anything amazing that a mid range PC couldn't handle. I was pondering on going for one or other for Christmas, not too sure now

Gally79

Interesting article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/11/14/xbox-series-x-has-made-a-better-first-impression-than-ps5-so-far/

CatInABox

Gally79 wrote: »

Interesting article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/11/14/xbox-series-x-has-made-a-better-first-impression-than-ps5-so-far/

As much as I like my X, I can say without any doubt, that any article appearing on Forbes is a complete and utter joke, not to be taken seriously in any way, shape or form.

CatInABox

Thecageyone wrote: »

Am I the only one not impressed in the slightest by what I've seen so far from either console? Maybe I expected too much? a giant leap like previous 'next gen' releases ... I dunno, I'm not seeing anything amazing that a mid range PC couldn't handle. I was pondering on going for one or other for Christmas, not too sure now

Depends on your definition of mid range PC really. Would you get the same combination of graphics, framerate and load speeds in a mid range PC? I don't think so, and the folks in Digital Foundry don't think so either.

Give a few years, and sure, I'd agree with you.

Chris_Heilong

Thecageyone wrote: »

Am I the only one not impressed in the slightest by what I've seen so far from either console? Maybe I expected too much? a giant leap like previous 'next gen' releases ... I dunno, I'm not seeing anything amazing that a mid range PC couldn't handle. I was pondering on going for one or other for Christmas, not too sure now

The issue is the mid range refresh that happened with the PS5 pro and the Xbox One X, if it was just the base systems then this is a giant leap. I have a 1080ti so I get the high res and frame rate but can not do ray tracing like the new systems, still if you have a PC get a RX 6800 XT and you would be way ahead of anything the consoles could do.