PS5 or Xbox Series X ?

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's a weird one especially with DMC5 showing a preference for the Series X although the difference is very minor.

DMC5 was also pretty inconsistent, in some modes the PS5 performed better in cutscenes and worse in gameplay (or vice versa, I can't recall). And Series X was way higher in one mode but with huge drops periodically.

It's early days but so far pretty interesting and some definite surprises. It can change quickly too because I know there were some BC loading comparisons which showed Series X with a massive (2x-3x) advantage in some titles. And then a day later a PS5 update nullified it.

All_in_Flynn

Deleted User wrote: »

DMC5 was also pretty inconsistent, in some modes the PS5 performed better in cutscenes and worse in gameplay (or vice versa, I can't recall). And Series X was way higher in one mode but with huge drops periodically.

It's early days but so far pretty interesting and some definite surprises. It can change quickly too because I know there were some BC loading comparisons which showed Series X with a massive (2x-3x) advantage in some titles. And then a day later a PS5 update nullified it.

I'm not by any means an expert on this but I think it's something to do with the clock speed that is allowing Sony to have a better performance than you would imagine in comparison to the raw power of the Xbox. Sony have definitely gone for a different solution than Microsoft's horse power approach.

Retr0gamer

It's cores vs clock speed. More cores should give better performance but mark cerny is convinced higher clock speed is the way to go which flies in the face of convention. Not that he is wrong but it's a rather inefficient way of boosting performance but console tech can differ a lot from conventional architecture. Would love a df interview with mark cerny.

The unusual thing is that even allowing for the different approaches (narrow & fast vs wide & slow), the Series X GPU still works out at 15% more powerful. And has more bandwidth, and a marginally faster CPU.

So even if narrow fast proved to be 'the way to go', you would imagine the end result was that it allows PS5 to narrow the gap and or even be equal. You certainly wouldn't expect it to flip it on it's head, and by such a huge margin (at times Valhalla is 60 on PS5 and in the high 40s on Series X).

Right now it's a bit of a head-scratcher. But very interesting times.

super_furry

At a guess I'd imagine that patches for Valhalla would at least bring parity but Cyberpunk will be very interesting. Xbox have the marketing deal for it so if it performs better on the PS5 that would be a bit of a blow.

Slutmonkey57b

CatInABox wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think Gamestop will be around without a major shift in direction soon. The Digital/Physical sales ratio was pushing 60%, and that was before Covid. If it goes much higher, then the Gamestop model of bricks and mortar stores just doesn't make any sense.

Cex on the other hand, are set up to survive longer. They're already a second hand shop dealing in almost everything, not just games.

Gamestop have "not been bought" (bought) by Microsoft.

Homelander

A patch will sort Valhalla. Any gap in performance is going to really be down to developers having a harder time optimizing for the Series X compared to the PS5.

You had something similar with the PS3 and Xbox 360.

The Series X has a better GPU and a marginally better CPU, but in the wider scheme of things they have identical processors.

Even at stock speed or below they would not be any barrier to 60fps regardless, so it's not even really worth mentioning. They're basically slower clocked 3700X processors.

johnny_ultimate

I’ve heard a few reporters say developers were a bit more down to the wire getting stuff ready for Series X, so I’d say that could factor into launch performance for some games.

I’m sure both it and PS5 will be extremely capable machines, and no doubt it’ll be some of Microsoft’s and Sony’s own studios that’ll eventually be putting out the most technologically impressive games over the next few years

CastorTroy

I find it funny that before launch all talk was around no load times yet after launch all we get are videos comparing load times which are still very noticeable.

And yes I know games aren't next gen only which is likely the reason

quokula

Homelander wrote: »

A patch will sort Valhalla. Any gap in performance is going to really be down to developers having a harder time optimizing for the Series X compared to the PS5.

You had something similar with the PS3 and Xbox 360.

The Series X has a better GPU and a marginally better CPU, but in the wider scheme of things they have identical processors.

Even at stock speed or below they would not be any barrier to 60fps regardless, so it's not even really worth mentioning. They're basically slower clocked 3700X processors.

With the PS3 and 360 it was a matter of the 360 being a fairly standard architecture while the PS3 had the completely unique set up with the cell. Ironically in a way it was the opposite of the current situation as the 360 was the way forward for single threaded performance while the PS3 was great for parallelism, but it was ahead of its time because most game engines weren't written for parallelism at that time.

With the PS5 and XBSX the architecture is practically identical, so it won't be a matter of devs having to rewrite their game for each system in a way they did for the PS3.

Sony have done a few clever things that go beyond the usual CPU and GPU clock speeds and cores that people look at though, for example there is dedicated hardware for decompressing assets which is why it can load so much quicker because it can really maximise the potential of the embedded SSD in a way other platforms can't. It's possible this hardware is also picking up some tasks that are taking up clock cycles on the Xbox, particularly in an open world like Assassin's Creed where things are constantly being streamed in. There's also the dedicated specialised audio chip in the PS5 which could again be taking some load off the main processor.

There's also the thermals and the question of how much of the time the CPU and GPU actually run at the headline frequencies and whether they need to throttle at all - I'm not sure Microsoft have said anything but I know Sony have talked about how they manage that and also how they pass tasks between CPU and GPU to balance the load.

When the headline specs are so similar then stuff like that can make a difference. The talk Mark Cerny did a few months back was fascinating, where he went into detail about the headline FLOPS number not necessarily being representative of real world performance for a number of reasons. We will have a clearer picture as more games come out of course.

wes

I haven't noticed any tearing on Valhala for the Series X. I guess VRR on my TV is being given some workout, as the tearing is apparently very bad. So I guess yay for VRR!

Retr0gamer

quokula wrote: »

With the PS3 and 360 it was a matter of the 360 being a fairly standard architecture while the PS3 had the completely unique set up with the cell. Ironically in a way it was the opposite of the current situation as the 360 was the way forward for single threaded performance while the PS3 was great for parallelism, but it was ahead of its time because most game engines weren't written for parallelism at that time.

Just to be pedantic this isn't really true. The 360 had a multicore CPU that required parallelism to get the most out of it but it was more along the lines of conventional multicore systems while the PS3's SPU's were totally different to how everything else was done.

pavb2

I enjoy a few games but not a serious gamer by any means but should I get a new Xbox or PlayStation the poll suggests PlayStation. Or should I just get the previous model and save a bit of cash.

hots

pavb2 wrote: »

I enjoy a few games but not a serious gamer by any means but should I get a new Xbox or PlayStation the poll suggests PlayStation. Or should I just get the previous model and save a bit of cash.

If you're not playing very much you'll get one of the previous generation for an absolute steal at the moment and get a good year or two (or more) with nothing lost.

pavb2

So how much should I pay for a PS4 and best place to buy would prefer new

The Raging Bile Duct

pavb2 wrote: »

So how much should I pay for a PS4 and best place to buy would prefer new

I'd pick up a PS4 Pro on Adverts. You'll get it for about half the price you'd get it new and there's no real issue with them beyond fan noise. They're fairly rock solid machines.

super_furry

Make sure to haggle as well. It's a buyers market right now and everyone's going to be looking to get rid of one.

BeerWolf

Like many people I won't be getting my hands on a PS5 anytime soon because of this botched scarcity of console availability...

Regardless, as a long PS+ member I've got an ever increasing list of games. This month PS5 owners will be enjoying 20 games off the PS+ Collection, many Triple A titles some of which I don't have. Will this collection be available for all PS5 PS+ owners at any time or is it strictly just for this month to add? How would I add them to my library while currently on PS4?

skerry

BeerWolf wrote: »

Like many people I won't be getting my hands on a PS5 anytime soon because of this botched scarcity of console availability...

Regardless, as a long PS+ member I've got an ever increasing list of games. This month PS5 owners will be enjoying 20 games off the PS+ Collection, many Triple A titles some of which I don't have. Will this collection be available for all PS5 PS+ owners at any time or is it strictly just for this month to add? How would I add them to my library while currently on PS4?

From what I understand its only for PS5 and only for November which is pretty crap seeing as how most people can't get the console this month. Hopefully they will make it available again given the situation with stock cos its a nice starting catalogue to get, although most will have a lot of the games already Id imagine

TitianGerm

skerry wrote: »

From what I understand its only for PS5 and only for November which is pretty crap seeing as how most people can't get the console this month. Hopefully they will make it available again given the situation with stock cos its a nice starting catalogue to get, although most will have a lot of the games already Id imagine

The way they mentioned it they made it seem like it was going to be a permanent addition?

skerry

TitianGerm wrote: »

The way they mentioned it they made it seem like it was going to be a permanent addition?

Just checked a few articles there and you might be right. I'm nearly sure I seen it mentioned somewhere they were only available for November. I take it all back so

CastorTroy

BeerWolf wrote: »

Like many people I won't be getting my hands on a PS5 anytime soon because of this botched scarcity of console availability...

Regardless, as a long PS+ member I've got an ever increasing list of games. This month PS5 owners will be enjoying 20 games off the PS+ Collection, many Triple A titles some of which I don't have. Will this collection be available for all PS5 PS+ owners at any time or is it strictly just for this month to add? How would I add them to my library while currently on PS4?

from what I hear, if you know someone with a PS5 that you trust, they can log you in on their PS5, add the games to your account then you'll be able to play them on the PS4.

CatInABox

Hrmmm.... There's currently no way to stream your Series X to a Windows 10 PC. That's disappointing, and unusual. Very handy for when the wife or kids commandeers the TV, I could still play on my laptop.

I assume that they'll fix this eventually, but considering the OS and abilities are so close to the Xbox One, I just assumed that this would work.

sniper_samurai

CastorTroy wrote: »

from what I hear, if you know someone with a PS5 that you trust, they can log you in on their PS5, add the games to your account then you'll be able to play them on the PS4.

That is true. Once they're added they're just listed as normal PS+ games.

RasTa

Seems a few Amazon drivers doing a switch

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-11-20-amazon-playstation-5-customers-report-receiving-toys-kitchen-appliances-instead

calliealbert

Both the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X cost $500 apiece. Since the two systems are very similar, this category would seem to be a tie at first glance.

Digital Foundry compare DIRT5 on PS5, Series X|S

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLUrgHWxWCU

PS5 and Series X perform very similarly in 2 of the 3 modes (quality, resolution) but once again the PS5 is on top, it's slightly sharper overall and holds 60fps better. Not a huge difference but PS5 takes it nonetheless. In the 120Hz mode the Series X has awful graphic settings - they think it's a mistake because it's so bad. The awful graphics let it hold 120fps better than PS5.

Gally79

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/some-ps5s-are-very-loud-but-the-problem-and-fix-is-quite-silly/1100-6484720/?UniqueID=E713C72C-2B85-11EB-9DDD-D7160EDC252D&ftag=GSS-05-10aaa0a&TheTime=2020-11-20T23%3A12%3A47&PostType=link&ServiceType=facebook_page&fbclid=IwAR0tlRSx7PxTeYEw2KkRmMfuzX7Mb6ZOOPN9nGJ-3GSQp2Hr_lQGIAJKJjQ

Vicxas

Thats a silly thing to have happen, thank god its not HW fault.

quokula

So a couple of weeks into the generation, owning both consoles, my first impressions.

My other half who isn't a gamer still hasn't noticed the One X was replaced with a Series X. The controller is basically the same, though the build quality does feel better, the UI is the same unintuitive mess, it plays the same games and they aren't particularly improved unless you're really squinting and looking for differences. I knew all this going in and I'm ok with it. The console is very cheap compared to something like a PC or a phone, and once games like Forza come out it will be well worth the entry price, alongside the occasional worthwhile games that turn up on gamepass.

What I'm not ok with is the main selling point, quick resume, being completely non functional on every game I wanted to play, and actively sabotaging me and costing progress in some cases. The biggest one was Watchdogs, a game that I was really enjoying on Xbox One before the upgrade. The jump over to Series X was smooth, the game installed and my save continued where I left off easily enough. Graphically, you could tell it was different by some extra reflections in puddles, but generally it didn't look like a generational leap or anything like it. Load times are definitely better, probably about half as long as they were.

The problems started once I started playing though. The game has no manual save option, you just have to trust it to autosave. Time and again I'd leave the game, without even switching to another game, I'd just turn off the console, or just go to netflix, functions where suspend-resume worked 100% of the time on PS4 and most of the time on XBO, but they would frequently kill the game, and also occasionally lost progress. The final straw came when a full 3ish hour session worth of progress was lost and I just couldn't face doing it again. I probably won't go back and finish this game that I had been really enjoying, which is frustrating.

After Watchdogs, I mainly played Yakuza 7. This is an absolutely fantastic game, but again the new console doesn't enhance it, graphically it is not noticeably different to the previous games on PS4, and I've had crashes and suspend resume failures cost me progress on a few occasions. I've taken to obsessively saving constantly now in case the console screws me over, but there are still sections in the game where saving is not allowed for periods of time. I'm still really enjoying it, but I kind of wish I'd just bought the PS4 version.

Other games I've played have been Tetris Effect, which looks utterly stunning and is the most next gen looking thing I've seen on the console, Forza Horizon 4, which is the second best looking game with a decent enhancement over XBO, but I've played it to death already so not interested in playing much more, Planet Coaster which was free on Gamepass, and was fun for a little while until it crashed at the end of the tutorial and I couldn't be bothered going back, and Fight Night which held up surprisingly well for an Xbox 360 game. Fight Night remains the only game I've been able to repeatedly jump back into with Quick Resume, which is nice for a quick multiplayer bout.

Overall, the controller is well built, there's a welcome improvement in load times, games look a bit better visually but nothing that noticeable, but it's all a bit crashy and unreliable at the moment.

The PS5 has been a completely different experience. It's been rock solid, haven't had a single crash or issue, and everything looks and feels really new. Astro's Playroom is one of the most joyful love letters to gaming that I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. It shows off the haptics but it is also an incredibly imaginative and enjoyable platformer in it's own right, packed full of easter eggs and nostalgic references that are sure to put a smile on your face. It is the first game I've ever gotten a platinum on, partly thanks to it being short but also thanks to the new activity cards and picture-in-picture stuff that gives you hints towards the last few hidden trophies - this might go against the spirit of hunting for secrets, but I appreciate it as someone who would normally just complete a game then leave it at that because I don't want to spend time hunting for every last collectable.

The collectable hunting is also much more enjoyable because of the instant load times. The Series X is like a PC with a good SSD. Things that took maybe 2 minutes before take maybe 40 seconds now. It's a welcome improvement. But in Astro's Playroom, and some other PS5 games (but not all), the load times are like witchcraft. You hit pause, pick a different level on the map, and you're there. Instantly. I've noticed some other PS5 games like Bugsnax and backwards compatible games, have much more normal load times, so it definitely takes some work on the developer's side to make the most of the SSD architecture, but it's incredible when they do.

Miles Morales is another game that takes advantage of it. A lot is made of the few seconds it takes from the PS5 dashboard to be in game and playing. But the instantaneous way you can fast travel to any point on the map at any time during play is also incredible. It can feel like a bit of a game changer. Graphically, the game is the most next-gen looking thing on either console by some distance. It still isn't wildly better than what you'd see on PS4, but a lot of the effects such as the snow building on the ground, turning to mush and ice as cars drive over it with just the right amount of reflectivity, can look very impressive. The sheer number of people walking the streets seems like an order of magnitude higher than any other open world game I can think of too, which can help it all feel more alive. As for gameplay, I prefer it to it's predecessor because it allows for more stealth, which I enjoy. The main quest is short but there's plenty of side stuff to do.

I've had a surprising amount of fun with Bugsnax, while Sackboy's adventure has been very disappointing on the other hand and really doesn't stand up well coming from a masterpiece like Astro. Assassin's Creed is the next game on my list but plenty still to get through before that.

Overall I really like what I've seen so far from Sony, front foot forward with some really great first party games, the load times are amazing for the games that showcase them (though I'm curious as to why other games are much more normal), it's the most premium console controller I've ever used, and the activity cards have actually been useful and not just a novelty in a couple of games so far, though I'm sure they won't be applicable to all games or genres. Only tiny niggles so far - it's louder than the Series X, but not to the point that you'd actually notice when the volume on the TV isn't muted. It also doesn't work with my universal logitech remote, which was compatible with the Series X straight away using the same settings as my One X, but I'm sure that will be patched at some point. The store seems less useful at surfacing good games and offers, but I guess that will evolve as the library expands. But overall it's been an excellent first week with the console.