Is it time for a Dublin lockdown?

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

I really don't think Dublin will be locked down to be honest. They probably know there wouldn't be much compliance. As for people gathering in each others houses, how can they enforce a restriction on that? They can't, and the civil liberties brigade will be up in arms over it anyway. At best it will be a recommendation that largely won't be followed.

I've no faith in people anymore to do the right thing, or even exercise a bit of common sense. All along it's been a constant whinge about needing to exercise beyond 2km, or needing to travel across the country to visit a holiday home, when are the pubs re-opening oh and the pubs the pubs the pubs blah blah blah. At this stage I think people are more or less going to do what they want and instead of wasting time on farcical "restrictions" the government should just focus on resourcing up for the inevitable fallout following party season.

We've been stocking up and as of today, can officially do our own lockdown for the next ten weeks. A fortnightly online shop for fresh fruit and veg is all that's needed. I couldn't care less what the rest of the country does at this stage!

An unfortunate attitude given everything so many if us have gone through and sacrificed.
As for the focus being on pubs, you do know that's peoples livelihoods and a source of company for a lot of people alone?
I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot what would you say.

Antares35

Risteard81 wrote: »

People should party with friends. People should live life. People should hug strangers and kiss their friends on the cheek.

They're not pariahs - they're people, and this disease is not and never has been dangerous. The treasonous totalitarian response must end immediately, entirely and forever. And those who instigated, promoted and maintained it must be prosecuted, persecuted and vilified for what they have done.

I respectfully disagree with all of this, but like I said, it means nothing to me now what people do.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

An unfortunate attitude given everything so many if us have gone through and sacrificed.
As for the focus being on pubs, you do know that's peoples livelihoods and a source of company for a lot of people alone?
I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot what would you say.

Unfortunate how? I won't be spreading the disease. I respected the lockdown restrictions all along. I've done nothing wrong. I too made my sacrifices... Including being pregnant and giving birth in the midst of a pandemic without the usual support system of family and friend rallying around. I'm not going to go out on the lash and risk bringing covid home to my elderly father with underlying conditions just so the publicans can turn a profit. Expecting anyone to do so - now THAT is an unfortunate attitude In addition to which it wouldn't take a cynic to reason that the majority of people having a meltdown about the pubs are not taking an altogether altruistic attitude.

Del Griffith

Antares35 wrote: »

...civil liberties brigade..

I'm no conspiracy theorist or anti masker but being flippant about giving up basic civil rights is historically a big mistake, it's not extraordinary for people to question it

Antares35 wrote: »

We've been stocking up and as of today, can officially do our own lockdown for the next ten weeks. A fortnightly online shop for fresh fruit and veg is all that's needed. I couldn't care less what the rest of the country does at this stage!

You say this i think to point out what a strop your having with "people" but this is actually a great scenario. If everyone vulnerable to the nastier side of covid19 (or terrified of it even though they're in perfect health) did the same thing we'd have nothing to worry about and the rest of us could just get on with it.

By all means lock yourself down and encourage others like yourself to do the same. Covid-19 isn't going anywhere for a while and you're right people are likely not willing to put their lives and livelihoods on pause indefinitely, so it's for the best.

Antares35

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think that is a bit harsh. Most of us observed and are observing the guidance. Schools reopened recently and the pubs (with food) also. There will always be an increase in cases with more mingling.

It is only on boards like this that you have so many rebels gathered together to give out about everything, it doesn't reflect real life out there much. IMV.

Not much can be done about the house gatherings, now that students will be back (mostly online though it seems for now). Dublin is the capital city, but London seems to be doing fine at ten or more times our size, and a crowded underground and other public transport. I don't understand why though.

So it must be the house parties. Can't see any resolution to that, but the rest of us will continue to observe the six per house rule or whatever it is now.

The advisers and the Gov are getting a bit nervous about the 1.4 rate now. I don't blame them, but there is only so much people like myself can do now.

It might be harsh alright but it's based on my (albeit only my) experience. But whether it's harsh or not, who cares really. The only argument that has made sense to me so far is the point that opening pubs might cut down house gatherings and therefore social distancing might actually be more likely to take place. But either way, I wont be going to one! Did go to a restaurant a few weeks back in temple bar for a friend's birthday ( just the two of us) and was pleasantly surprised at how professional they were and all the measures in place.

Antares35

Del Griffith wrote: »

I'm no conspiracy theorist or anti masker but being flippant about giving up basic civil rights is historically a big mistake, it's not extraordinary for people to question it



You say this i think to point out what a strop your having with "people" but this is actually a great scenario. If everyone vulnerable to the nastier side of covid19 (or terrified of it even though they're in perfect health) did the same thing we'd have nothing to worry about and the rest of us could just get on with it.

By all means lock yourself down and encourage others like yourself to do the same. Covid-19 isn't going anywhere for a while and you're right people are likely not willing to put their lives and livelihoods on pause indefinitely, so it's for the best.

What strop? I literally don't care what they do. If anything you're having a strop at me for choosing to lock down Yes I'm in perfect health but my elderly parents are not, and I'd like to give them something other than covid for Christmas... Something other people also in perfect health might not have thought about in relation to their own parents.

Hawthorn Tree

Antares35 wrote: »

I really don't think

We've been stocking up and as of today, can officially do our own lockdown for the next ten weeks. A fortnightly online shop for fresh fruit and veg is all that's needed. I couldn't care less what the rest of the country does at this stage!

Ah not this stockpiling talk again. Did you learn nothing the first time? The shops will be open and the shelves will remain stocked ....for the umpteenth time.

Have you 500 toilet rolls too??

Antares35

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Ah not this stockpiling talk again. Did you learn nothing the first time? The shops will be open and the shelves will remain stocked ....for the umpteenth time.

Have you 500 toilet rolls too??

Yes I'm aware the shops will be open... But the point is I won't have to go to them. It's really simple and easy to understand.

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

Unfortunate how? I won't be spreading the disease. I respected the lockdown restrictions all along. I've done nothing wrong. I too made my sacrifices... Including being pregnant and giving birth in the midst of a pandemic without the usual support system of family and friend rallying around. I'm not going to go out on the lash and risk bringing covid home to my elderly father with underlying conditions just so the publicans can turn a profit. Expecting anyone to do so - now THAT is an unfortunate attitude In addition to which it wouldn't take a cynic to reason that the majority of people having a meltdown about the pubs are not taking an altogether altruistic attitude.

My post was in direct response to you having no faith in people. So many of us are doing our best. Of course there are those who act dreadfully but don't waste your energy on them and instead see the good.

As for the pubs. They are a huge part of Irish life. For a lot of people they mean more than just going for a few drinks. It's a social outlet, an escape also, the only opportunity a person might have to chat with another.
I also think that they have become symbolic of what we have lost and the fear that our lives won't return as they once were. That is a very scary prospect.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My post was in direct response to you having no faith in people. So many of us are doing our best. Of course there are those who act dreadfully but don't waste your energy on them and instead see the good.

As for the pubs. They are a huge part of Irish life. For a lot of people they mean more than just going for a few drinks. It's a social outlet, an escape also, the only opportunity a person might have to chat with another.
I also think that they have become symbolic of what we have lost and the fear that our lives won't return as they once were. That is a very scary prospect.

Well it looks like they will be opening anyway no?

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

Well it looks like they will be opening anyway no?

Well so they say but I don't have any sense of certainty with where we are. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't opened. Shure lookit.

Scuid Mhór

growleaves wrote: »

I do feel sorry for them but ultimately who's responsible? The people of Ireland for going along with this farce.

No one ever heard of a lockdown before this year, the Chinese government invented it on the fly a few months ago. Italy copied China, then multiple Euro countries copied Italy.

No one knows whether it does anything. No one has any proof nor seeks any. Since it aligns with people's assumptions about where the numbers would have gone without a lockdown, they think they know they that it prevented x, y, z (actually just projections from theoretical models which regurgitated the data fed into them).

Pandemic lockdowns were being done a hundred years ago during the influenza, and before that, because they are a tried and tested method. If you don't know the basics of epidemiological history, maybe you should reevaluate your ability to judge the situation.

Hawthorn Tree

Antares35 wrote: »

Yes I'm aware the shops will be open... But the point is I won't have to go to them. It's really simple and easy to understand.

You can if you wear a 5mm drysuit with scuba quality face mask and double wellington boots. Burn the drysuit and scald yourself afterwards in the shower.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well so they say but I don't have any sense of certainty with where we are. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't opened. Shure lookit.

I imagine rural ones will at least.

Antares35

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

You can if you wear a 5mm drysuit with scuba quality face mask and double wellington boots. Burn the drysuit and scald yourself afterwards in the shower.

Spanish Eyes

Antares35 wrote: »

It might be harsh alright but it's based on my (albeit only my) experience. But whether it's harsh or not, who cares really. The only argument that has made sense to me so far is the point that opening pubs might cut down house gatherings and therefore social distancing might actually be more likely to take place. But either way, I wont be going to one! Did go to a restaurant a few weeks back in temple bar for a friend's birthday ( just the two of us) and was pleasantly surprised at how professional they were and all the measures in place.

Pubs reopening for drinks is fine for a few pints/G+Ts whatever. Issue is they are closing at 11.30pm. So guess what happens after that with no nightclubs or other venues to go to for the younger crowd.... yes the house party. And we are back to square one.

Congrats on the new baby BTW, must have been a tough time to go through all that.

OscarMIlde

ChikiChiki wrote: »

No, how many people travel from Dublin to Timahoe/Kildare Town/Newbridge Athy for work? Dublin very rarely travels into Kildare.

Likewise how many people travel from Celbridge, Leixlip, Maynooth to work down that direction?

People travel onto Dublin, the demographic living in those towns travel into Dublin in huge numbers to work and socialise.

Ever hear of a little company called Intel? Plenty of people commute from Dublin into Kildare for work.

Antares35

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Pubs reopening for drinks is fine for a few pints/G+Ts whatever. Issue is they are closing at 11.30pm. So guess what happens after that with no nightclubs or other venues to go to for the younger crowd.... yes the house party. And we are back to square one.

Congrats on the new baby BTW, must have been a tough time to go through all that.

Thanks! It was hard, especially when my parents got stuck in the Spanish lockdown for the first six weeks after the birth - OH and I were stuck at home alone with this tiny baby and we didn't have a clue what to do with her lol. Perhaps the reason I'm not fussed about the pubs is because of the wee one - our lives are pretty much over now anyway!

ChikiChiki

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Ever hear of a little company called Intel? Plenty of people commute from Dublin into Kildare for work.

Timahoe/Kildare Town/Newbridge different to Leixlip in the demographics and movement of people.

You are missing the point.

tobefrank321

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I think all Irish universities have some physical classes for most students, but I am not sure of the detail of this. But any significant gathering of 100,000 odd third level students in Dublin is inevitably going to ramp things up big time.

The Dublin third level colleges are going to present a huge problem. Students mixing from all parts of the country, pubs and house parties or just in lectures and labs, then bringing it back to other counties or parts of Dublin.

I would be surprised if they don't go entirely online.

The problem with delaying restrictions is that you end up with much harsher restrictions later because of a failure to get the R0 under control early.

Gael23

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The Dublin third level colleges are going to present a huge problem. Students mixing from all parts of the country, pubs and house parties or just in lectures and labs, then bringing it back to other counties or parts of Dublin.

I would be surprised if they don't go entirely online.

The problem with delaying restrictions is that you end up with much harsher restrictions later because of a failure to get the R0 under control early.

I haven’t heard about Dub,in colleges but I know that University of Limerick are having students on campus one week in 4 so each year will have a week of physical classes and the rest online.

If that happens in Dublin rents will freefall

Wanderer78

Gael23 wrote:

I haven’t heard about Dub,in colleges but I know that University of Limerick are having students on campus one week in 4 so each year will have a week of physical classes and the rest online.

Wit is largely online this year, should be interesting for students in broadband black spots, no fee reduction either!

Spook_ie

Dublin lock down, national lock down or herd immunity, did Ireland and the rest of the world get it wrong first time around, given the numbers according to
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
It would seem we are heading back to lock down numbers territory.

The 7 day rolling average for cases for Sept 11 is pretty much the same rolling average as March 26th (181 v 180)

Likewise the rolling 7 day figure for deaths Sep 11th and March 26th (1 vs 2 )

The next few days is going to tell the story Sept 16th Vs March 31st (Deaths ? vs 9) (cases ? vs 273 )

3xh

Spook_ie wrote: »

Dublin lock down, national lock down or herd immunity, did Ireland and the rest of the world get it wrong first time around, given the numbers according to
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
It would seem we are heading back to lock down numbers territory.

The 7 day rolling average for cases for Sept 11 is pretty much the same rolling average as March 26th (181 v 180)

Likewise the rolling 7 day figure for deaths Sep 11th and March 26th (1 vs 2 )

The next few days is going to tell the story Sept 16th Vs March 31st (Deaths ? vs 9) (cases ? vs 273 )

Serious question, the 2 deaths this week, was it confirmed when they occurred? I didn’t hear.
I know in June, one particular day had a number of deaths announced and it transpired they occurred in April owing to some time lag in getting confirmation. That is not satisfactory when numbers clearly play such a critical role in deciding the precarious nature of where we’re at at any given time.

Spook_ie

3xh wrote: »

Serious question, the 2 deaths this week, was it confirmed when they occurred? I didn’t hear.
I know in June, one particular day had a number of deaths announced and it transpired they occurred in April owing to some time lag in getting confirmation. That is not satisfactory when numbers clearly play such a critical role in deciding the precarious nature of where we’re at at any given time.

No doesn't seem to be given out in the normal briefing notes
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/11e8d-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-12-september/

3xh

Spook_ie wrote: »

No doesn't seem to be given out in the normal briefing notes
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/11e8d-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-12-september/

Yeah, cheers. I find it very strange they’re quick to date the positive cases but not so with the deaths.
Especially if they then use the deaths in any way to support a lockdown.

VeVeX

Spook_ie wrote: »

Dublin lock down, national lock down or herd immunity, did Ireland and the rest of the world get it wrong first time around, given the numbers according to
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
It would seem we are heading back to lock down numbers territory.

The 7 day rolling average for cases for Sept 11 is pretty much the same rolling average as March 26th (181 v 180)

Likewise the rolling 7 day figure for deaths Sep 11th and March 26th (1 vs 2 )

The next few days is going to tell the story Sept 16th Vs March 31st (Deaths ? vs 9) (cases ? vs 273 )

The case figures may be similar to March but we now have data on the severity of the virus. A further lockdown is not justified, this illness is nowhere near as deadly as we were led to believe in March.

3xh

VeVeX wrote: »

The case figures may be similar to March but we now have data on the severity of the virus. A further lockdown is not justified, this illness is nowhere near as deadly as we were led to believe in March.

Yep. I think so.

The government, however, are using language that paints them into a corner. They’ll need serious luck on the case numbers next week to be able to backtrack on their ‘naughty citizens’ rhetoric whilst saving face.

Edgware

VeVeX wrote: »

The case figures may be similar to March but we now have data on the severity of the virus. A further lockdown is not justified, this illness is nowhere near as deadly as we were led to believe in March.

I agree. The lockdown is not required and probably unenforceable anyway. However we must follow the social distance, mask, handwashing as much as possible. The people in the vulnerable categories will have to suck it up and accept that they have as much responsibility for protection as anyone else has. For people not in the vulnerable categories they should familiarise themselves with the stories of other so called non vulnerable people who contracted the virus and see how some were affected by it. Dont be complacent

VeVeX

A proportionate and clear plan is what is required. At the moment the implementation of measures is haphazard and appears totally disproportionate. They have absolutely no idea what's having an effect and what isn't. Hence why a lockdown is being mentioned because that worked before, right?