All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

bb1234567

pearcider wrote: »

Looks to me like the peak in every single EU country was the winter just gone. Not one country has come near the winter peak. For example in France they had 90k cases in November. So surely if it was “surging” in France it would be up near there? How many cases today then? Are we near the November peak?

Most importantly almost no cases anywhere in Europe during summer 2020. And you want to argue with me? Like who are you trying to fool here? It’s seasonal. See that’s the problem with people these days they just parrot what they heard on the news. Brainwashed and programmed by tv.

Wrong, look up Hungary right now it's approaching a very large peak much larger than in winter. Bosnia and Bulgaria will also surpass their winter peaks in the coming days as we hit April
. Anyway it's irrelevant to your point , if it was seasonal there shouldn't just no peaks there should not be any major surges at all in Europe by nearly April. Also the fact you mentioned Frances November peak as being winter is funny. Can you show me any other instance where France saw a peak in respiratory viral outbreaks in November? And October in Belgium?
Covid very clearly thrives in all weather. It comes and goes in waves but not according to seasons or flu seasonal patterns at all. South American and South African and American outbreaks just further reinforce this

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

The virus hadn’t arrived in winter 2019/20. The peak in April was way smaller than the peak in winter 2020/21. The US figures match the theory. They peaked in their winter 20/21. They didn’t peak in august. Not my theory by the way. All viruses like this are seasonal. Lancet study is online just type it in.

The point you're proving is that the virus will get worse in winter, like all respiratory viruses, not that it can't transmit at other times of the year.
Yes, the virus hadn't arrived here till approx March, but it was still able to run through a lot of people before we locked down.
The deaths in the US for last Aug & Sept were higher than 3 of their 4 previous winters, despite their restrictions.
Surely that shows that lockdowns were necessary?

pearcider wrote: »

My point about the airline security is that the government will never give up one iota of their new powers. Furthermore the public have been conditioned now to accept lockdowns (psy op) as something normal and the government know they can run it now. The next lockdown in response to the next crisis (real or fabricated) will be more efficient. Expect this draconian tool to be used a lot more in the years ahead. Especially as the world economy increasingly goes off the rails and China begins to assert itself. You can be sure aspects of communist China such as social credit scores and dominance of the big multi nationals will become increasingly common in the western world too.

Why would lockdowns/restrictions be used in the years ahead without a good reason?
It was plain to the majority in the country this past year whey we needed a lockdown.
Do you think the government would be able to bring a future lockdown without it being obvious to everyone why we needed it?

Re China exerting itself, that it a natural consequence of their economic success. It may upset the balance in the world, that remains to be seen. Either way, I can't see the relevance to whether we implement restrictions in the face of immediate danger from the virus.

pearcider wrote: »

Soon you will be getting your covid variant jab every year and no booster jab; no travel, no going to the cinema and no interacting in public at all.

I can see that elderly and vulnerable will likely get a covid jab every year like the flu jabs up to now.
If it's not a big threat to younger people then it may not extend to them, just like the flu today.
The game changer is the vaccine, until we had that we had no way to protect those who would die from the virus.

pearcider wrote: »

“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget. Aristotle argued in his Politics that democracy was an inherently defective and unstable form of government. It was, he thought, too easily subverted by demagogues seeking to obtain or keep power by appeals to public emotion and fear. What has saved us from this fate in the two centuries that democracy has subsisted in this country is a tradition of responsible government, based not just on law but on convention, deliberation and restraint, and on the effective exercise of Parliamentary as opposed to executive sovereignty. But like all principles which depend on a shared political culture, this is a fragile tradition. It may now founder after two centuries in which it has served this country well. What will replace it is a nominal democracy, with a less deliberative and consensual style and an authoritarian reality which we will like a great deal less.”

I had a quick glance at that article and straight away I think his first sentence is inaccurate (says British state hasn't done this before).
The British state has exercised this type of power over its citizens previously, clearly during ww2, and also apparently on a total of 12 occasions, including the energy crisis and miners strike in 1973.
A quick read show me he's nitpicking over technicalities of the powers brought in quickly to allow a lockdown last March, while ignoring the elephant in the room, the virus that was a real and present threat to the country at that moment.

Once the majority are vaccinated in the UK why would they not undo this emergency legislation?

robinph

PintOfView wrote: »

Once the majority are vaccinated in the UK why would they not undo this emergency legislation?

Different restrictions are being lifted every couple of days in different parts of the UK, mostly so that Wales and Scotland can claim to be doing things different from Johnson.

But yeah, all permanent lockdowns, except that limits on amateur sports are lifted from Monday, people can go on holidays within Wales from today, meeting up in public restrictions were lifted in England a couple of weeks ago, you could get your hair cut in Wales from 3 weeks ago and Scotland from last week... although still not possible in England yet. More shops are open in Wales already and the rest of the UK within the next two weeks.

All these permanent restrictions eh?

Dohnjoe

If it's "seasonal", then what's going on in New Zealand?

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/new-zealand

Where's their "winter spike"?

Can't wait to hear the made-up explanation for this one..

1. It's "dormant"
2. New Zealand doesn't have seasons
3. The NWO "turned off" the virus in New Zealand
4. Lockdowns cause seasonal Covid, they don't have lockdown, so they don't have the virus, checkmate atheistsglobalist bootlickers

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If it's "seasonal", then what's going on in New Zealand?

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/new-zealand

Where's their "winter spike"?

Can't wait to hear the made-up explanation for this one..

1. It's "dormant"
2. New Zealand doesn't have seasons
3. The NWO "turned off" the virus in New Zealand
4. Lockdowns cause seasonal Covid, they don't have lockdown, so they don't have the virus, checkmate atheistsglobalist bootlickers

2. is very much in line with Flat Earth beliefs...

Dohnjoe

Poland reporting new record in daily cases, ah they must have the "seasonal Spring" variant..

bb1234567

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Poland reporting new record in daily cases, ah they must have the "seasonal Spring" variant..

Yep must be same variant that has run amok in South Africa and South America all throughout their summers. God you'd have to be in serious serious denial to still be trying to convince people this is seasonal...apparently, the fact europe happened to have no resurgence last summer negates the proceeding 6 months of virus patterns which completely contradict seasonality theories. And that's ignoring the fact that some places in Europe like Russia and places in USA at similar latitude to South Europe saw very large summer waves last year, but let's not talk about that!

pearcider

King Mob wrote: »

But those aren't the studies you said you had.
Where's the studies that show that covid is "just a seasonal flu"?

Additionally, you're again linking to some site with a sketchy reputation.
Why?
Why not just link to the studies themselves?

Here are the studies themselves:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full#SM6
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.11.20128520v1

However, none seem to actually say what you, and the sites you're swallowing from claim they say.

For example in the first study:


The second:


And the third:


None of them say anything like "lockdowns are ineffective."

Now, where you reluctant to post these studies because you knew that they didn't support your claims, or because you only just googled them and never actually looked at them?

Lol

Nitpick all you want that’s your typical modus operandi when you’re not ignoring vast swathes of other peoples posts. Lockdowns do more harm than good and the fact that most governments including our own made a balls of it should not be surprising in the least since they are incompetent in most things. All socialists are. As a great economist once said, the whole idea of government taxing people for social means is like doing a blood transfusion from your left arm to your right arm but spilling half of the blood on the floor. Even the WHO are against lockdowns now but sure I’ll listen to the most obtuse poster on boards...lol

https://gbdeclaration.org/

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If it's "seasonal", then what's going on in New Zealand?

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/new-zealand

Where's their "winter spike"?

Can't wait to hear the made-up explanation for this one..

1. It's "dormant"
2. New Zealand doesn't have seasons
3. The NWO "turned off" the virus in New Zealand
4. Lockdowns cause seasonal Covid, they don't have lockdown, so they don't have the virus, checkmate atheistsglobalist bootlickers

NZ had virtually no cases. One of the most isolated countries on earth..I’d rather use US as comparison and they had no cases in summer and huge spike in winter.

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Poland reporting new record in daily cases, ah they must have the "seasonal Spring" variant..

I see your Poland and raise you a Spain.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

NZ had virtually no cases. One of the most isolated countries on earth..I’d rather use US as comparison and they had no cases in summer and huge spike in winter.

You'd rather use the US because you need very selective "data", note how you aren't using countries that are experiencing a spike now, because that contradicts your silly theory

You're caught in the classic conspiracy forum conundrum, admit you are wrong, or die on this bizarre hill you've created. Call me crazy, but I have a hunch you'll go with the latter

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

NZ had virtually no cases. One of the most isolated countries on earth..I’d rather use US as comparison and they had no cases in summer and huge spike in winter.

NZ had very low case number precisely because they locked down hard, and got control of the virus.
Then an effective quarantine of incoming travellers kept the virus down.

You say you'd rather use the US as comparison because they had no cases in summer.

Unfortunately for you then it's check mate, because they did have cases, plus lots of deaths, last summer.
See the attached picture of their excess deaths for the past 4 years.
Notice anything around August time?
Weekly deaths (from all causes) running at about 64,000 vs around 51,000 for August of the three prev years.

I'll be interested in how you explain that?

The original graph is half way down this page, if you're interested in facts!!
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You'd rather use the US because you need very selective "data", note how you aren't using countries that are experiencing a spike now, because that contradicts your silly theory

You're caught in the classic conspiracy forum conundrum, admit you are wrong, or die on this bizarre hill you've created. Call me crazy, but I have a hunch you'll go with the latter

It’s not my silly theory it’s the observable reality. You’re the one pulling up Poland as opposed to the much bigger sample of the US. Not much of a summer in Poland at the moment either but I guarantee they will have almost no cases come July.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

NZ had very low case number precisely because they locked down hard, and got control of the virus.
Then an effective quarantine of incoming travellers kept the virus down.

You say you'd rather use the US as comparison because they had no cases in summer.

Unfortunately for you then it's check mate, because they did have cases, plus lots of deaths, last summer.
See the attached picture of their excess deaths for the past 4 years.
Notice anything around August time?
Weekly deaths (from all causes) running at about 64,000 vs around 51,000 for August of the three prev years.

I'll be interested in how you explain that?

The original graph is half way down this page, if you're interested in facts!!
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

I’m talking about cases. Cases were around 75k in the summer versus 300k in the winter. Check mate just lol who even says that.

Deaths is a whole other debate since most of the covid deaths occur in the elderly who are very likely to die anyway with median life expectancy of 78 and median age of covid death 82. You’d have to be a real politician to sell that particular inconvenient fact as a justification for more lockdown self destruction.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

NZ had very low case number precisely because they locked down hard, and got control of the virus.
Then an effective quarantine of incoming travellers kept the virus down.

You say you'd rather use the US as comparison because they had no cases in summer.

Unfortunately for you then it's check mate, because they did have cases, plus lots of deaths, last summer.
See the attached picture of their excess deaths for the past 4 years.
Notice anything around August time?
Weekly deaths (from all causes) running at about 64,000 vs around 51,000 for August of the three prev years.

I'll be interested in how you explain that?

The original graph is half way down this page, if you're interested in facts!!
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

By the way NZ didn’t lockdown they just stopped people coming in and quarantined. Easy to do of course and a sensible strategy for an isolated island. Not arguing against that at all and no idea why you think I am. Of course for most of the world it’s not a viable strategy.

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

I’m talking about cases. Cases were around 75k in the summer versus 300k in the winter. Check mate just lol who even says that.

Deaths is a whole other debate since most of the covid deaths occur in the elderly who are very likely to die anyway with median life expectancy of 78 and median age of covid death 82. You’d have to be a real politician to sell that particular inconvenient fact as a justification for more lockdown self destruction.

So you are saying that only the deaths increased last August in the US, but not cases?
And the 400,000 excess deaths they had last year, they were trivial I suppose!

Aren't you just making stuff up!!
Have you no regard for reality, or the truth.

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

By the way NZ didn’t lockdown they just stopped people coming in and quarantined..

Inaccurate again.

See https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-system/history-of-the-covid-19-alert-system/

"25 March 2020 At 11:59pm, New Zealand moves to Alert Level 4, and the entire nation goes into self-isolation. A State of National Emergency is declared at 12:21pm. "

"13 May 2020 New Zealand moves to Alert Level 2 at 11:59pm. The State of National Emergency expires at 12:21pm."

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

Inaccurate again.

See https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-system/history-of-the-covid-19-alert-system/

"25 March 2020 At 11:59pm, New Zealand moves to Alert Level 4, and the entire nation goes into self-isolation. A State of National Emergency is declared at 12:21pm. "

"13 May 2020 New Zealand moves to Alert Level 2 at 11:59pm. The State of National Emergency expires at 12:21pm."

Pedantic much. How does that in any way compare with the lockdown we have endured. You really are just arguing for the sake of it aren’t you. God knows why...oh yeah cos you’re a shill for the globalists.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

So you are saying that only the deaths increased last August in the US, but not cases?
And the 400,000 excess deaths they had last year, they were trivial I suppose!

Aren't you just making stuff up!!
Have you no regard for reality, or the truth.

You can’t seem to get a grip with fact that the peak was in winter not in summer. Weird.

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

Pedantic much. How does that in any way compare with the lockdown we have endured. You really are just arguing for the sake of it aren’t you. God knows why...oh yeah cos you’re a shill for the globalists.

I'm not a shill for anyone, I simply look at the facts and draw conclusions.
If you put up things that contradict the facts you can't complain on being called out on it.

We've been over the ground about US numbers many times, but you clearly didn't check them out. More people died in the US last August than during their their average winter peak, but you're still denying the virus is an issue, and saying it's just a seasonal thing (have you stopped saying it's just the flu)?

Then when you are confronted with your mistakes you are falling back on ad hominem.

I know the lockdown is hard for people, and harder for many people than it is for me.
However it is pretty clear to me that it is/was still better than the alternative of letting our hospitals get overrun, and losing lots of people. If we had to live indefinitely with this we might have to review the strategy. However as the vaccines are being rolled out, and we are likely to be living in a different situation in a few short months, it looks like it was the right response, and will have saved a lot of people, albeit with some sacrifice.

Dohnjoe

"Sir, someone on the internet has demonstrated global medical consensus on Covid is incorrect, it's actually just a seasonal illness"

-"How?"

"Well if we google it real quick, ignore these latest figures, pretend these 16 countries don't exist, use this one study with the word seasonal in it, ignore those stats aaaand pick these specific graphs, look it's seasonal!"

-"Dear lord, inform the global corpo-fascist communist one world government immediately!"

PintOfView

PintOfView wrote: »

I know the lockdown is hard for people, and harder for many people than it is for me.

it looks like it was the right response, and will have saved a lot of people

CSO: Median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.


Looks like we didn't truly "save" many, my friend, according to the official Irish statistics. Covid mostly taking sick people who were at the age of dying, anyway.

PintOfView wrote: »

albeit with some sacrifice.

We've yet to see the worst of the fallout. Economic consequences will kick in from next year, and will last a long-time.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

CSO: Median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.


Looks like we didn't truly "save" many, my friend, according to the official Irish statistics. Covid mostly taking sick people who were at the age of dying, anyway.

"They were dying anyway"

Big spike in annual death figures.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

I'm not a shill for anyone, I simply look at the facts and draw conclusions.
If you put up things that contradict the facts you can't complain on being called out on it.

We've been over the ground about US numbers many times, but you clearly didn't check them out. More people died in the US last August than during their their average winter peak, but you're still denying the virus is an issue, and saying it's just a seasonal thing (have you stopped saying it's just the flu)?

Then when you are confronted with your mistakes you are falling back on ad hominem.

I know the lockdown is hard for people, and harder for many people than it is for me.
However it is pretty clear to me that it is/was still better than the alternative of letting our hospitals get overrun, and losing lots of people. If we had to live indefinitely with this we might have to review the strategy. However as the vaccines are being rolled out, and we are likely to be living in a different situation in a few short months, it looks like it was the right response, and will have saved a lot of people, albeit with some sacrifice.

I’m talking cases. Not deaths. Can’t you understand that? Cases. Deaths were high initially because covid is lethal to nursing home residents who made up the biggest group of fatalities. The weakest are already dead. Killed by our HSE and government decisions to empty the hospitals and send infected people into them by the way and you think they actually care about human life..

On another point ..Do you know what I find pathetic and disgusting the state media throughout the western world like RTE and BBC have a little thing in the corner saying “stay at home” or similar and yet foreigners were free to fly in for a full year up until today with no quarantine...that tells me it’s a psy op and nothing more. The creeps and freaks that rule us don’t care about us. Never let a good crisis go to waste. That’s their mantra.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

I’m talking cases. Not deaths. Can’t you understand that? Cases. Deaths were high initially because covid is lethal to nursing home residents who made up the biggest group of fatalities. Going around in circles here.

On another point ..Do you know what I find pathetic and disgusting the state media throughout the western world like RTE and BBC have a little thing in the corner saying “stay at home” or similar and yet foreigners were free to fly in for a full year up until today with no quarantine...that tells me it’s a psy op and nothing more.

The lockdown is a psy op?

Sounds interesting, explain how it works..

pearcider

[Deleted User] wrote: »

CSO: Median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.


Looks like we didn't truly "save" many, my friend, according to the official Irish statistics. Covid mostly taking sick people who were at the age of dying, anyway.



We've yet to see the worst of the fallout. Economic consequences will kick in from next year, and will last a long-time.

The economic fall out will be devastating and will involve further socialisation of the world economy with terrifying consequences for future generations. Collapse is now actually preferable to the further concentration of economic and political power.

Remember it’s all about context this is all about the mega corporations that scale ever larger, the wealth disparity that grows ever greater and the tech giants who continue to tighten their grip on free expression.

This will end the same as all government over reach in history always ends. Socialism is the road to serfdom. Huge inflation is coming...followed by government money to favoured groups (Cantillion Effect) to deal with rising prices. Then price controls and shortages. Finally revolution and collapse. Covid is merely the spark.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any more silly, lockdown measures, aka people staying apart more, apparently has no effect on a virus that is airborne

Yet by some amazing coincidence, another infectious illness, flu, has rocketed down as a side effect of those same measures

Where's the conspiracy?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No, because the threat of terrorism using planes is still there.

Where's the conspiracy?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Where's the conspiracy?

Where's the conspiracy?

Lol, I'm not hinting at or claiming there's a conspiracy.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

The economic fall out will be devastating and will involve further socialisation of the world economy with terrifying consequences for future generations. Collapse is now actually preferable to the further concentration of economic and political power.

Remember it’s all about context this is all about the mega corporations that scale ever larger, the wealth disparity that grows ever greater and the tech giants who continue to tighten their grip on free expression.

This will end the same as all government over reach in history always ends. Socialism is the road to serfdom. Huge inflation is coming...followed by government money to favoured groups (Cantillion Effect) to deal with rising prices. Then price controls and shortages. Finally revolution and collapse. Covid is merely the spark.

Okay, so how are you preparing for all this?

Also, the "psy-ops" thing, how does it work in Ireland?