All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

bb1234567

pearcider wrote: »

It’s not my silly theory it’s the observable reality. You’re the one pulling up Poland as opposed to the much bigger sample of the US. Not much of a summer in Poland at the moment either but I guarantee they will have almost no cases come July.

You must be having a laugh at this stage. Couldn't actually be interested in any reasonable discussion if you've been proven so badly wrong so many times and still deny it

ShatterAlan

pearcider wrote: »

The economic fall out will be devastating and will involve further socialisation of the world economy with terrifying consequences for future generations. Collapse is now actually preferable to the further concentration of economic and political power.

Remember it’s all about context this is all about the mega corporations that scale ever larger, the wealth disparity that grows ever greater and the tech giants who continue to tighten their grip on free expression.

This will end the same as all government over reach in history always ends. Socialism is the road to serfdom. Huge inflation is coming...followed by government money to favoured groups (Cantillion Effect) to deal with rising prices. Then price controls and shortages. Finally revolution and collapse. Covid is merely the spark.

I suppose it begs the question.


The world didn't grind to a halt as a result of this unprecedented cataclysm.



There seems to be enough money to keep everyone in milk, eggs and jacks-roll along with 350 quid a week.


So how is this possible?

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

Nitpick all you want that’s your typical modus operandi when you’re not ignoring vast swathes of other peoples posts.

It's not nitpicking to point out that the studies you are claiming support your position actually say the opposite.

It's not nitpicking to point out that you have been lying about the support and evidence you claim to have.

It's not nitpicking to point out that you still have not provided any evidence.

And it's very funny that you are accusing me of ignoring posts, yet we've a long thread of ignored questions.
Particularly: What measure is going to be permanent and why?

pearcider wrote: »

Lockdowns do more harm than good

Ok. Show this with the studies you claim to have.
So far the studies you posted directly state the opposite.

pearcider wrote: »

Even the WHO are against lockdowns now but sure I’ll listen to the most obtuse poster on boards...lol

https://gbdeclaration.org/

That's not a statement from the WHO.

Please provide a quote from the WHO that states they are against lockdowns and believe they "do more harm than good."

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

I’m talking cases. Not deaths. Can’t you understand that? Cases. Deaths were high initially because covid is lethal to nursing home residents who made up the biggest group of fatalities. The weakest are already dead. Killed by our HSE and government decisions to empty the hospitals and send infected people into them by the way and you think they actually care about human life..

On another point ..Do you know what I find pathetic and disgusting the state media throughout the western world like RTE and BBC have a little thing in the corner saying “stay at home” or similar and yet foreigners were free to fly in for a full year up until today with no quarantine...that tells me it’s a psy op and nothing more. The creeps and freaks that rule us don’t care about us. Never let a good crisis go to waste. That’s their mantra.

The thing is we have to measure using excess deaths so it's clear to people who are in denial,
and who would otherwise obfuscate by talking about dying with covid vs dying of covid, etc.

Re the nursing homes, they were ill equipped to deal with a virus like this.
Likely most of the residents would have been vaccinated against flu, but had no resistance to Covid.
It's certainly possible that covid was brought to the nursing homes, or at least to some homes, by hospital patients being moved there, but I'm not sure that's established yet (but that might not stop some people from acting like it's already a fact!).

Last March all of us, including the people making the decisions, were watching the army carrying coffins in Italy, so it's understandable the rush to empty the hospitals, and take space in the private hospitals, etc., in preparation for something similar to Italy.
Just because our lockdown then successfully prevented things getting as bad as Italy doesn't mean those were bad decisions
(what would you have said about the HSE if we had been completely overrun, and our army had to help out with coffins?).

What's wrong with the message on RTE and BBC to stay at home?
If the majority of people in the country can see the logic of the lockdown, what's strange that RTE / BBC, etc., pass on this message?

Re incoming travellers not being quarantined till now, I agree with you this was very slow, and likely contributed to our problems.
China showed us that a short severe lockdown, followed by a strict quarantine on newly arrived travellers, was extremely effective.
I still can't understand the reluctance to follow that example last year, though it would obviously be more difficult as the EU is made up of independent nations, unlike China.

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

The thing is we have to measure using excess deaths so it's clear to people who are in denial,
and who would otherwise obfuscate by talking about dying with covid vs dying of covid, etc.

Re the nursing homes, they were ill equipped to deal with a virus like this.
Likely most of the residents would have been vaccinated against flu, but had no resistance to Covid.
It's certainly possible that covid was brought to the nursing homes, or at least to some homes, by hospital patients being moved there, but I'm not sure that's established yet (but that might not stop some people from acting like it's already a fact!).

Last March all of us, including the people making the decisions, were watching the army carrying coffins in Italy, so it's understandable the rush to empty the hospitals, and take space in the private hospitals, etc., in preparation for something similar to Italy.
Just because our lockdown then successfully prevented things getting as bad as Italy doesn't mean those were bad decisions
(what would you have said about the HSE if we had been completely overrun, and our army had to help out with coffins?).

What's wrong with the message on RTE and BBC to stay at home?
If the majority of people in the country can see the logic of the lockdown, what's strange that RTE / BBC, etc., pass on this message?

Re incoming travellers not being quarantined till now, I agree with you this was very slow, and likely contributed to our problems.
China showed us that a short severe lockdown, followed by a strict quarantine on newly arrived travellers, was extremely effective.
I still can't understand the reluctance to follow that example last year, though it would obviously be more difficult as the EU is made up of independent nations, unlike China.

Why aren't there more ICU beds if a disease like this could happen at any time?

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why aren't there more ICU beds if a disease like this could happen at any time?

I would think that should be fairly obvious!

Have you looked up 'pandemics'?
They don't happen every year, or even every 10 or 20 years,
but in the past two thousand years there have been hundreds around the world, some of which have killed 20 to 50% of the regional population at the time (and up to 90% of some populations of native Americans).

Even if our governments focused on the longer term (instead of the next 5 years) they would be unlikely to get support for the cost of putting in place hospital capacity for a once in 50 to 100 years event!

What do you think?

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

I would think that should be fairly obvious!

Have you looked up 'pandemics'?
They don't happen every year, or even every 10 or 20 years,
but in the past two thousand years there have been hundreds around the world, some of which have killed 20 to 50% of the regional population at the time (and up to 90% of some populations of native Americans).

Even if our governments focused on the longer term (instead of the next 5 years) they would be unlikely to get support for the cost of putting in place hospital capacity for a once in 50 to 100 years event!

What do you think?

Why wouldn't they?


If they can implement draconian travel restrictions and close schools and businesses indefinitely and force people into quarantine for a "once in a 50 year event", measures that adversely affect everyone who is not infected then surely they can take extra steps to greatly improve the treatment of those who are actually suffering from the disease.


You can knock up a fully functioning hospital in a matter of days or a couple of weeks (see Dutch company De Boer, world's largest provider of temporary buildings) and this could have been done a year ago.

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why wouldn't they?

If they can implement draconian travel restrictions and close schools and businesses indefinitely and force people into quarantine for a "once in a 50 year event", measures that adversely affect everyone who is not infected then surely they can take extra steps to greatly improve the treatment of those who are actually suffering from the disease.

You can knock up a fully functioning hospital in a matter of days or a couple of weeks (see Dutch company De Boer, world's largest provider of temporary buildings) and this could have been done a year ago.

What makes you say schools and businesses are closed indefinitely?
Schools were fully open from Sept to Dec, and are now already open again for some, after Easter for all.
Most businesses will open again (though there may be some that won't)

As regards creating fully functioning temporary hospitals in days or weeks,
it's much easier to say something like that, than to actually do it!
A hospital is not just a building! Where would you get the trained doctors and nurses from?
It also needs a lot of specialised equipment, where do you get that in a couple of weeks?

China did that in Wuhan in a couple of weeks.
However they have 1.4b people to draw temporary medical staff from,
and they had done it 10 years ago for the SARS outbreak, so had experience of doing it.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why wouldn't they?
.

What's your answer to this?

pearcider

bb1234567 wrote: »

You must be having a laugh at this stage. Couldn't actually be interested in any reasonable discussion if you've been proven so badly wrong so many times and still deny it

Right mister certainty how is Poland having a massive wave now when they have been under lockdown and masked up since November? Maybe cause the first wave missed them and they were due one. Remember boot lickers - all the lockdown does is postpone the inevitable wave and destroy livelihoods and the economy to boot. Also the ordinary flu disappeared this year...very convenient. You are being made fools of.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

What makes you say schools and businesses are closed indefinitely?
Schools were fully open from Sept to Dec, and are now already open again for some, after Easter for all.
Most businesses will open again (though there may be some that won't)

As regards creating fully functioning temporary hospitals in days or weeks,
it's much easier to say something like that, than to actually do it!
A hospital is not just a building! Where would you get the trained doctors and nurses from?
It also needs a lot of specialised equipment, where do you get that in a couple of weeks?

China did that in Wuhan in a couple of weeks.
However they have 1.4b people to draw temporary medical staff from,
and they had done it 10 years ago for the SARS outbreak, so had experience of doing it.

How did I know you’d be fan of communist China. Stick a fork in western civilisation folks...After two millennia we are done.

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

The thing is we have to measure using excess deaths so it's clear to people who are in denial,
and who would otherwise obfuscate by talking about dying with covid vs dying of covid, etc.

Re the nursing homes, they were ill equipped to deal with a virus like this.
Likely most of the residents would have been vaccinated against flu, but had no resistance to Covid.
It's certainly possible that covid was brought to the nursing homes, or at least to some homes, by hospital patients being moved there, but I'm not sure that's established yet (but that might not stop some people from acting like it's already a fact!).

Last March all of us, including the people making the decisions, were watching the army carrying coffins in Italy, so it's understandable the rush to empty the hospitals, and take space in the private hospitals, etc., in preparation for something similar to Italy.
Just because our lockdown then successfully prevented things getting as bad as Italy doesn't mean those were bad decisions
(what would you have said about the HSE if we had been completely overrun, and our army had to help out with coffins?).

What's wrong with the message on RTE and BBC to stay at home?
If the majority of people in the country can see the logic of the lockdown, what's strange that RTE / BBC, etc., pass on this message?

Re incoming travellers not being quarantined till now, I agree with you this was very slow, and likely contributed to our problems.
China showed us that a short severe lockdown, followed by a strict quarantine on newly arrived travellers, was extremely effective.
I still can't understand the reluctance to follow that example last year, though it would obviously be more difficult as the EU is made up of independent nations, unlike China.

Do you know what would prevent future pandemics? A one world government. We could even get communist China to run it.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

. Remember boot lickers -

Any chance you will be addressing any of the points I made?
Particularly where I showed you were telling lies about the studies you linked to?

Or just going to stick to this ridiculous catchphrase of yours?
If so, please continue, as it's really amusing.

pearcider wrote: »

.
Also the ordinary flu disappeared this year...very convenient.

And now we're back to this lie that coronavirus is the flu.

It's not.

pearcider

King Mob wrote: »

Any chance you will be addressing any of the points I made?
Particularly where I showed you were telling lies about the studies you linked to?

Or just going to stick to this ridiculous catchphrase of yours?
If so, please continue, as it's really amusing.


And now we're back to this lie that coronavirus is the flu.

It's not.

The ordinary flu disappeared this year though. I’m not making this up lol

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

Right mister certainty how is Poland having a massive wave now when they have been under lockdown and masked up since November? Maybe cause the first wave missed them and they were due one. Remember boot lickers - all the lockdown does is postpone the inevitable wave and destroy livelihoods and the economy to boot. Also the ordinary flu disappeared this year...very convenient. You are being made fools of.

Are you now saying that the virus is real, and that lockdowns do work?

What do you think the vaccines will do to the "inevitable wave"?

How come you "know" so much more that others?
Are you not the one who is fooling yourself?

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

How did I know you’d be fan of communist China. Stick a fork in western civilisation folks...After two millennia we are done.

So, if one mentions China you automatically think they are a "fan of communist China"?

How do you make that deduction?
Is that an example of the (false) logic you bring to bear on everything else?

PintOfView

pearcider wrote: »

Do you know what would prevent future pandemics? A one world government. We could even get communist China to run it.

Aren't you beginning to get into deluded territory now?

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

The ordinary flu disappeared this year though. I’m not making this up lol

You are.

Coronavirus is not a flu virus.

You shouldn't lie as it make you look very bad and untrustworthy.

For example, as you've admited, you lied about studies supporting your claims.
And when you were called out on this lie, you're reverting to childish ignoring tactics and ridiculous insults.

Why do you think this will be effective or result in people taking you seriously?

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

The ordinary flu disappeared this year though. I’m not making this up lol

Hasn't disappeared. Why do you think an infectious illness like flu decreased a lot in the last year?

Also, I asked a few questions back:

How are you preparing for this big revolution and collapse that is apparently coming?

And, the "psy-ops" thing, how does it work in Ireland?

pearcider

King Mob wrote: »

Any chance you will be addressing any of the points I made?
Particularly where I showed you were telling lies about the studies you linked to?

Or just going to stick to this ridiculous catchphrase of yours?
If so, please continue, as it's really amusing.


And now we're back to this lie that coronavirus is the flu.

It's not.

The data all show the lockdowns and mask don’t work. Just compare Sweden and the U.K. and ourselves - no difference. Also it’s a fact that Covid all but disappeared in the summer in Europe. This is all political. You’re being made fools of.

Fighting Tao

pearcider wrote: »

The ordinary flu disappeared this year though. I’m not making this up lol

If you don’t test for something then it can’t be officially diagnosed. Flu tests were few and far between as there was a much more potent virus going around. You might have heard of it...Covid-19. Also, the much lower amount of travel, other guidelines etc, make the flu less prevalent.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

The data all show the lockdowns and mask don’t work.

Ok. What data?
Post the studies.

The last time you claimed this and posted the studies, it turned out you were lying through your teeth.
So claiming this with no source is not convincing.

And again, covid is not the flu. Claiming otherwise like you're doing is an outright complete lie.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

The data all show the lockdowns and mask don’t work. Just compare Sweden and the U.K. and ourselves - no difference. Also it’s a fact that Covid all but disappeared in the summer in Europe. This is all political. You’re being made fools of.

Please share that data. According to you, how is Covid transmitted from one person to another?

pearcider

King Mob wrote: »

Any chance you will be addressing any of the points I made?
Particularly where I showed you were telling lies about the studies you linked to?

Or just going to stick to this ridiculous catchphrase of yours?
If so, please continue, as it's really amusing.


And now we're back to this lie that coronavirus is the flu.

It's not.

The data all show the lockdowns and mask don’t work. Just compare Sweden and the U.K. and ourselves - no difference. Also it’s a fact that Covid all but disappeared in the summer in Europe. This is all political. You’re being made fools of. I’d love to hear your response to the Stanford study of July 2020 which concluded “ Claimed benefits of lockdown appear grossly exaggerated.” you want to pick holes in that one too?

pearcider

PintOfView wrote: »

Aren't you beginning to get into deluded territory now?

You’re the one hailing communist China and their freedom loving response to their own virus.You work for the WHO?

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Please share that data. According to you, how is Covid transmitted from one person to another?

Simply look at the curves. I’m not doing your leg work since you’re nothing but an apologist for totalitarianism.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

The data all show the lockdowns and mask don’t work. .

You're just repeating yourself now because you can't defend your dishonesty any further.

If the data showed this, you'd be able to provide.
I'm sure you'd be rubbing it in our "bootlicker" faces to no end.
But you're not. You keep having to ignore and avoid the requests for you to back up your claims.

And if the data showed this, you wouldn't have to lie about what other studies that don't agree with your say.

So we can conclude that the data shows no such thing and you are once again lying.

You also appear to be becoming quite manic.
Maybe you should just stop and consider why you are getting so upset about having to lie about your beliefs.
Maybe your beliefs just aren't true...

pearcider

Fighting Tao wrote: »

If you don’t test for something then it can’t be officially diagnosed. Flu tests were few and far between as there was a much more potent virus going around. You might have heard of it...Covid-19. Also, the much lower amount of travel, other guidelines etc, make the flu less prevalent.

So the guidelines make the flu non existent but yet covid comes back in the winter anyway. So you admit the lockdowns don’t work. All a bit pointless then wasn’t it.

pearcider

King Mob wrote: »

You're just repeating yourself now because you can't defend your dishonesty any further.

If the data showed this, you'd be able to provide.
I'm sure you're be rubbing it in our "bootlicker" faces to no end.
But you're not. You keep having to ignore and avoid the requests for you to back up your claims.

And if the data showed this, you wouldn't have to lie about what other studies that don't agree with your say.

So we can conclude that the data shows no such thing and you are once again lying.

You also appear to be becoming quite manic.
Maybe you should just stop and consider why you are getting so upset about having to lie about your beliefs.
Maybe your beliefs just aren't true...

You believe your little covid cult. The curves for all the countries are quite clear. The studies are clear. Lockdown doesn’t work. I’m not manic I’m laughing at your narrative.

King Mob

pearcider wrote: »

You believe your little covid cult. The curves for all the countries are quite clear. The studies are clear. Lockdown doesn’t work. I’m not manic I’m laughing at your narrative.

Ok. Show this then.

You've claimed that studies supported you before, but when we read them, it turned out that they said the opposite.
And when this was pointed out, you ran away and ignore this.

So again, I think you are lying here as well.

If the data exists, show it. Show up all us "bootlickers".
Make us eat our words with all the studies and curves you claim to have.

All you have to do is post links and quote where those studies back up your position.

But you won't do this.
We all know why.
You know why too...