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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!
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According to the vast majority of other scientists, no it can't.
Why should we believe one doctor over the others?
TBF to the good doctor, from the conclusion in the article:
"Again, this is a theoretical exercise I am presenting for consideration. I am not making the claim that an mRNA vaccine will permanently alter your genomic DNA, and I didn’t make this claim in my first article, although it appears that troll sites made the fallacious claim that I did."0 -
Increasingly it looks as though brianhere was right.
Johnson says test kits will be used in schools for years, even though it was said to be a temporary measure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0gAETIoomY
A two year contract to continue to deliver an advertising campaign on COVID-19, even though life is to return to normal in June in the UK: https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/notice/005534-2021?fbclid=IwAR1Yt_GOxNEPcOj16kn7o3W0nn6q7apthZcbZW_9oNbPIT3mhGQKihMI340
"The Executive Office requires the immediate appointment of an advertising contractor to build on and continue to deliver a multimedia advertising campaign on COVID-19. The contract duration is for two years commencing on 1 April 2021."0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Increasingly it looks as though brianhere was right.
Johnson says test kits will be used in schools for years, even though it was said to be a temporary measure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0gAETIoomY
A two year contract to continue to deliver an advertising campaign on COVID-19, even though life is to return to normal in June in the UK: https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/notice/005534-2021?fbclid=IwAR1Yt_GOxNEPcOj16kn7o3W0nn6q7apthZcbZW_9oNbPIT3mhGQKihMI340
"The Executive Office requires the immediate appointment of an advertising contractor to build on and continue to deliver a multimedia advertising campaign on COVID-19. The contract duration is for two years commencing on 1 April 2021."
That poster believes Covid is a cover for a massive Communist take over of the world. What part of that is right?0 -
That poster believes Covid is a cover for a massive Communist take over of the world. What part of that is right?
I mean about the measures being permanent. If test kits are going to be used for years in schools then it doesn't suggest that it's a temporary measure.
And I wonder what that public advertising campaign is about.0 -
According to the vast majority of other scientists, no it can't.
Why should we believe one doctor over the others?
The scientists that say no it can't are correct in saying that as it doesn't directly alter your dna.
Hae a look at what Dr.Sherri Tenpenny has to say about the vaccines.
https://www.drtenpenny.com/podcasts-interviews0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I mean about the measures being permanent. If test kits are going to be used for years in schools then it doesn't suggest that it's a temporary measure.
And I wonder what that public advertising campaign is about.
It does suggest it's a temporary measure
The original poster is suggesting the measures will be permanent because they are part of a nefarious plan to permanently install Communism across the globe. That's completely false of course.
The measures are to tackle and reduce the virus, if the virus persists in some form for a few years, then it's likely certain measures to reduce/tackle it will persist for those years.0 -
It does suggest it's a temporary measure
The original poster is suggesting the measures will be permanent because they are part of a nefarious plan to permanently install Communism across the globe. That's completely false of course.
The measures are to tackle and reduce the virus, if the virus persists in some form for a few years, then it's likely certain measures to reduce/tackle it will persist for those years.
But he's basically confirming that they will be used for years in schools. He says "I think these sorts of things are going to be in use a lot in the next few years." The measure was supposed to be for a few weeks. The British people were told again and again that the vaccine was the way out. It wasn't 'vaccine + testing for years + certain other measures'.
They were also told, by the way, that vaccine passports wouldn't be introduced. And now it looks like they will be.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »But he's basically confirming that they will be used for years in schools. He says "I think these sorts of things are going to be in use a lot in the next few years." The measure was supposed to be for a few weeks. The British people were told again and again that the vaccine was the way out. It wasn't 'vaccine + testing for years + certain other measures'.
They were also told, by the way, that vaccine passports wouldn't be introduced. And now it looks like they will be.
When does “I think” confirm anything?0 -
Fighting Tao wrote: »When does “I think” confirm anything?
Fair point, but his 'I think' tends to mean 'will'. For example, first he said 'no vaccine passports' and sure enough it looks like they'll definitely be introduced.
The only reason I draw attention to hat's going on in the UK is because what happens there tends to happen in Ireland too.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »But he's basically confirming that they will be used for years in schools. He says "I think these sorts of things are going to be in use a lot in the next few years." The measure was supposed to be for a few weeks. The British people were told again and again that the vaccine was the way out. It wasn't 'vaccine + testing for years + certain other measures'.
Measures last as long as they have to. If e.g. the virus continues to persist for 2 years, then we may have to wear masks for 2 years. It's just that we "estimate" or "expect" the peak of the virus to be over by e.g. this summer.
That might be correct, that might not be correct, no one has a crystal ball. It's just based on best estimates.They were also told, by the way, that vaccine passports wouldn't be introduced. And now it looks like they will be.
They didn't think they would be needed, now they might be. Again, it's a fluid, dynamic situation. Vaccine passports would mean that millions could go on holidays and boost hotels, restaurants, holiday industries. It's simply a potential solution. Not part of some evil nefarious cartoonish fantasy that some on here see it as.
Individuals who have a paranoid/deluded outlook on all this stuff refuse to look at the situation in any normal, rational way. Which is why they constantly see any misstep or miscalculation as a "clue" or "mistake" towards some big nefarious plan they can't explain.0 -
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Measures last as long as they have to. If e.g. the virus continues to persist for 2 years, then we may have to wear masks for 2 years. It's just that we "estimate" or "expect" the peak of the virus to be over by e.g. this summer.
That might be correct, that might not be correct, no one has a crystal ball. It's just based on best estimates.
They didn't think they would be needed, now they might be. Again, it's a fluid, dynamic situation. Vaccine passports would mean that millions could go on holidays and boost hotels, restaurants, holiday industries. It's simply a potential solution. Not part of some evil nefarious cartoonish fantasy that some on here see it as.
Individuals who have a paranoid/deluded outlook on all this stuff refuse to look at the situation in any normal, rational way. Which is why they constantly see any misstep or miscalculation as a "clue" or "mistake" towards some big nefarious plan they can't explain.
And what if it persists for 10 years? Would we be expected to wear them for 10 years? When do we ever let people make their own risk assessments? I don't understand why they aren't voluntary. I think 99% of people wear them, so making them voluntary wouldn't change all that much. Instead of 99% wearing them it might drop to 95%.
From my research a lot of people are concerned that the vaccine passport could morph into a social credit system. It does set a precedent. If you have a vaccine passport for covid, then why not for the flu and for other viruses? There's a big difference between a vaccine being required for international travel, something I think most people wouldn't have a big problem with considering that there's a precedent for it, and needing a passport to take part in hitherto normal everyday activities.
You don't buy Neil Clark's argument, I take it:
https://twitter.com/NeilClark66/status/13760896548778844170 -
The scientists that say no it can't are correct in saying that as it doesn't directly alter your dna.
And the ones who say that the vaccine is dangerous or will alter your genome are wrong because there's no evidence of such.
I've no interest in reading in one one sole probably anti vaccinationist has to say about vaccines.
I'm not sure why you believe we should take her seriously when the vast majority of scientists disagree.
Why listen to her over others?
Beyond just that you prefer the conspiracy narrative0 -
Deleted User wrote: »And what if it persists for 10 years? Would we be expected to wear them for 10 years?
Answer this question yourself. Masks reduce the spread of an airborne virus. If Covid is serious enough (or some variant) then we might theoretically have to wear masks for 10 years.
This is unlikely because most of the population will be long vaccinated by then. At worse it will prob be like seasonal flu. Do masks reduce seasonal flu? yes. Do we all wear masks to stop seasonal flu? No. Why? because it's not feasible, it's not that much of a threat. So why do we wear them for Covid? because it's a far higher threat.
Stop and engage in basic critical thinking for these things.I don't understand why they aren't voluntary.
Certain things aren't voluntary because people are stupid. If seatbelts weren't mandatory, certain people wouldn't wear them. Likewise, during a pandemic, if wearing masks in certain situations weren't mandatory certain people wouldn't wear them.From my research a lot of people are concerned that the vaccine passport could morph into a social credit system.
You don't research. You visit conspiracy sites and fill your head full of their exciting nonsense.0 -
A lot of people are concerned that vaccines are the mark of the beast.Deleted User wrote: »
From my research a lot of people are concerned that the vaccine passport could morph into a social credit system.
A lot of people are concerned that the vaccine is dangerous.
A lot of people are concerned that the vaccine will alter people's DNA.
A lot of people are scaremongering and a lot of people are falling for scaremongering.0 -
Answer this question yourself. Masks reduce the spread of an airborne virus. If Covid is serious enough (or some variant) then we might theoretically have to wear masks for 10 years.
This is unlikely because most of the population will be long vaccinated by then. At worse it will prob be like seasonal flu. Do masks reduce seasonal flu? yes. Do we all wear masks to stop seasonal flu? No. Why? because it's not feasible, it's not that much of a threat. So why do we wear them for Covid? because it's a far higher threat.
Stop and engage in basic critical thinking for these things.
Certain things aren't voluntary because people are stupid. If seatbelts weren't mandatory, certain people wouldn't wear them. Likewise, during a pandemic, if wearing masks in certain situations weren't mandatory certain people wouldn't wear them.
You don't research. You visit conspiracy sites and fill your head full of their exciting nonsense.
So the OP can never be right in that case because if we ended up wearing them for 20 years then people would just say 'it's because of the risk of variants'. People would never admit that they were permanent, as the OP is suggesting.
I wouldn't be surprised if masks were required every winter from now on. Varadkar was interviewed a few months ago and said that they now know what to for the flu every year. Would you be willing to wear them every winter? And to socially distance every winter?
But most would continue to wear them if they were made voluntary. Compliance is at around 99%. That wouldn't drop dramatically if they were made voluntary. It would also mean that people who don't want to wear them, or who feel under pressure to, could choose not to.
Is Neil Clark a conspiracy theorist? He doesn't have a conspiracy website or make conspiracy videos on YouTube.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »So the OP can never be right in that case because if we ended up wearing them for 20 years then people would just say 'it's because of the risk of variants'. People would never admit that they were permanent, as the OP is suggesting.
OP believes anti-virus measures are "political" and will be permanent because of that (part of secret global Communism plan). So any time it seems that an anti-virus measure may go on longer than expected, OP or a supporter celebrates that they were "correct" all along.
Yes, there's no other way to put it, it's literally that dumb.I wouldn't be surprised if masks were required every winter from now on. Varadkar was interviewed a few months ago and said that they now know what to for the flu every year. Would you be willing to wear them every winter? And to socially distance every winter?
If the virus or a variant is still a considerable risk then we may have to continue to wear masks to reduce it. If it isn't, then it's unlikely. Some people may choose to wear masks out of habit or as a precaution.Is Neil Clark a conspiracy theorist? He doesn't have a conspiracy website or make conspiracy videos on YouTube.
He's a full on crank and Covid denier who's come up here several times. You gravitate towards people like that because you clearly get your info from conspiracy sites which consistently link to people like that.
This may come as a shock to you, but there are other people out there who share your 1984 dystopia fantasy of the world, and want nothing more than to hear from others who share the same deluded but exciting fantasy.0 -
Where's level zero on the govs plan?
A quick scan of history will teach you governments will take all your freedoms and only give you some of them back.
And you'll be glad of it.0 -
OP believes anti-virus measures are "political" and will be permanent because of that (part of secret global Communism plan). So any time it seems that an anti-virus measure may go on longer than expected, OP or a supporter celebrates that they were "correct" all along.
Yes, there's no other way to put it, it's literally that dumb.
If the virus or a variant is still a considerable risk then we may have to continue to wear masks to reduce it. If it isn't, then it's unlikely. Some people may choose to wear masks out of habit or as a precaution.
He's a full on crank and Covid denier who's come up here several times. You gravitate towards people like that because you clearly get your info from conspiracy sites which consistently link to people like that.
This may come as a shock to you, but there are other people out there who share your 1984 dystopia fantasy of the world, and want nothing more than to hear from others who share the same deluded but exciting fantasy.
But as against that, if an anti-virus measure ends up lasting for longer than expected then those who disagree with the OP can say that the temporary measure is just a bit of a longer temporary. Even if it means 10 years of mask wearing. I'm focusing more on the OP's saying that the measures are permanent, not his opinion on a plot to implement Communism.
The risk of a potential variant is always going to be there. So if mask wearing is based on 'potential future variants' then, unless the virus is eradicated, it becomes very hard for it ever to be scrapped. Unless the approach switches to one of making a personal risk assessment then it becomes difficult to undo measures such as mask wearing and social distancing. We'll know more in June when the UK is to review mask wearing and social distancing. It will be interesting to see if there's a change in approach.
I read his articles on RT and what he says on Twitter. He also says he has an inside source in the Government, which means he may know what's going to happen before it's announced.0 -
MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 wrote: »Where's level zero on the govs plan?
A quick scan of history will teach you governments will take all your freedoms and only give you some of them back.
And you'll be glad of it.
That's something that people are concerned about, I imagine. There was an article in the Irish Mirror a couple of days ago comparing level 1 in Ireland with life Australia and New Zealand, which are practically restriction free domestically. Victoria scrapped masks in all retail a few days ago and, while a bit behind the other states, is gradually lifting all restrictions. Level 1 in Ireland is still heavily restricted. It includes mask wearing and social distancing as well as capacity limits. Ronan Glynn has for some time now being talking about 'a degree of normality'. Level 1 would be a degree of normality. I think the worry is that the media will increasingly push level 1 as being the best people can expect in terms of normal.0 -
beginning of lift of lockdown measures begin in England tomorrow.... guess they don't want in on the NWO0
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LessOutragePlz wrote: »According to this doctor the MRNA vaccines could potentially permanently alter your DNA.
https://sciencewithdrdoug.com/2021/02/15/breaking-study-sheds-more-light-on-whether-an-rna-vaccine-can-permanently-alter-dna/
This article he references hasn't been peer reviewed or been officially published.... it is available as pre-print for academics to discuss the findings....
in fact, there have already been a number of counter articles disputing their findings, which is quite interesting....
anyways.... rule number 1 of academic research, don't use non peer reviewed research unless you have your own research to back it up ...
You should have public access to the likes of UCD or TCD library search to see this.0 -
talk of the UK gov in talks with the EU to propose a deal where they actually do give some of the vaccines Europe wants, but to Ireland only, so ROI & NI can come out of lockdown measures in tandem....
funny that0 -
some great stuff in that study, but as was mentioned already, it focuses more so on the impact of lockdown and the wider implications rather than it's impact on Covid.
Although you did answer your own point earlier where you mentioned that in the study, it said something along the lines (sorry I'm paraphrasing cos I can't be arsed looking back) "lockdown didn't work because it wasn't implemented properly"....
This is the key point..... if people had one big hard lockdown, which Ireland and a lot of countries didn't do, we wouldn't be in this situation of "flattening the curve"....
unfortunately, that involves lots of socio-economic factors, and with hindsight, one big long lockdown would have been the best option everywhere, and we'd probably be done with it at this point...
a key point for Ireland also is, it highlights the major issues in the health service, in it's management and government's lack of understanding and ability to take advice about.... this isn't something that can be fixed over night, but it has seriously thrown a fuel truck on the fire ....
The only way to effectively attack the virus now is knee jerk lockdowns and eventually the vaccine..... if you're a person who can get it, and fight it off naturally, great, lots can't and are being protected with this lockdown...0 -
Scotland has a level 0, but the level 0 there includes masks: https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/19189789.face-mask-rules-scotland-mandatory-coverings-eased/
According to the Scottish Government’s website, “in all levels and settings”, we should follow “advice and requirements such as on the use of face coverings”.
Speaking on March 16 when she outlined Scotland’s route map out of the pandemic, the First Minister said that it is “hoped” that we could reach “at least Level 0” by the end of June.
Currently, guidance under Level 0 includes the mandatory wearing of face coverings on public transport and shops – unless you are exempt.
However, Ms Sturgeon said that “we hope we will be able to get beyond even that”, with a “view to restoring as much normality as possible”.
It's all rather vague, but one could interpret it as suggesting that case numbers are going to be the metric post-vaccination.
'As much normality as possible' isn't 'complete normality'. It will be interesting to see what she means by 'we hope to be able to get beyond even that'. Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is of the opinion that masks and social distancing are low level restrictions that people have got used to. So this 'degree of normality', or 'semblance of normality', that we hear talk of seems to include mask wearing and social distancing, even post-vaccination.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »But as against that, if an anti-virus measure ends up lasting for longer than expected then those who disagree with the OP can say that the temporary measure is just a bit of a longer temporary. Even if it means 10 years of mask wearing. I'm focusing more on the OP's saying that the measures are permanent, not his opinion on a plot to implement Communism.
But the OP can't know how long the threat from the virus is going to last.
So the OP saying the measures are permanent is purely a theory, with no explanation or reasoning behind it.
It's the virus, and it's behaviour, that's deciding the next course of action, not the OP, and not the government, and not the WEF, etc.
If the vaccines work against the virus, then we'll be able to relax restrictions once enough people are vaccinated.
What more is there to it?Deleted User wrote: »I read his articles on RT and what he says on Twitter. He also says he has an inside source in the Government, which means he may know what's going to happen before it's announced.
But the government don't know what's going to happen one month from now, or two months!
Restrictions may be eased shortly, possibly with more outdoor meeting up, etc.
However noone knows in advance if we will have another surge, or not.
If we do have another surge, before enough people are vaccinated, and hospitals start filling up with covid patients, and it looks like deaths will increase, then how can anyone be surprised if restrictions tighten again to combat the situation?
Where you are going wrong is thinking the whole thing is a predetermined plan.
It's not, it's simply the government reacting to the virus, and its twists and turns.
How is that so difficult to see?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Scotland has a level 0, but the level 0 there includes masks: https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/19189789.face-mask-rules-scotland-mandatory-coverings-eased/
According to the Scottish Government’s website, “in all levels and settings”, we should follow “advice and requirements such as on the use of face coverings”.
Speaking on March 16 when she outlined Scotland’s route map out of the pandemic, the First Minister said that it is “hoped” that we could reach “at least Level 0” by the end of June.
Currently, guidance under Level 0 includes the mandatory wearing of face coverings on public transport and shops – unless you are exempt.
However, Ms Sturgeon said that “we hope we will be able to get beyond even that”, with a “view to restoring as much normality as possible”.
It's all rather vague, but one could interpret it as suggesting that case numbers are going to be the metric post-vaccination.
'As much normality as possible' isn't 'complete normality'. It will be interesting to see what she means by 'we hope to be able to get beyond even that'. Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is of the opinion that masks and social distancing are low level restrictions that people have got used to. So this 'degree of normality', or 'semblance of normality', that we hear talk of seems to include mask wearing and social distancing, even post-vaccination.
Scotland are doing as they always did with their "never say never" tactic... which is the safest way to play....
But if restrictions successfully lift in England and Wales at that time, they will be pressured into lifting their own also.
edit:
also had a lol at this, what do you think they would measure against, broken arms?It's all rather vague, but one could interpret it as suggesting that case numbers are going to be the metric post-vaccination0 -
Scotland are doing as they always did with their "never say never" tactic... which is the safest way to play....
But if restrictions successfully lift in England and Wales at that time, they will be pressured into lifting their own also.
edit:
also had a lol at this, what do you think they would measure against, broken arms?
Not hospitalisations and ICU numbers? Herd immunity?
Or does it have to be 0, or close to 0, cases?0 -
PintOfView wrote: »But the OP can't know how long the threat from the virus is going to last.
So the OP saying the measures are permanent is purely a theory, with no explanation or reasoning behind it.
It's the virus, and it's behaviour, that's deciding the next course of action, not the OP, and not the government, and not the WEF, etc.
If the vaccines work against the virus, then we'll be able to relax restrictions once enough people are vaccinated.
What more is there to it?
But the government don't know what's going to happen one month from now, or two months!
Restrictions may be eased shortly, possibly with more outdoor meeting up, etc.
However noone knows in advance if we will have another surge, or not.
If we do have another surge, before enough people are vaccinated, and hospitals start filling up with covid patients, and it looks like deaths will increase, then how can anyone be surprised if restrictions tighten again to combat the situation?
Where you are going wrong is thinking the whole thing is a predetermined plan.
It's not, it's simply the government reacting to the virus, and its twists and turns.
How is that so difficult to see?
Are you not concerned that there's no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan'? Does the fact that level 0 in Scotland includes mask wearing concern you? Does it suggest that the Scottish Government has no plans to scrap masks?
Is it not the Government that's deciding on things? Sweden, and Norway and Finland to a lesser extent, chose a different approach. It wasn't the virus that chose that approach.
But it doesn't it increasingly look as though the OP might be right? Test kits, according to Johnson, are set to be a feature of school life for years. There is no guarantee from the UK Government that mask wearing will be scrapped or made voluntary. Gibraltar has vaccinated its almost its entire adult population and they're still compulsory in shops and on public transport|: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-gibraltar-masks-idUSKBN2BK0F7
Scrapping masks for me includes scrapping them in shops and on public transport. But Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE is of the opinion that mask wearing, and social distancing, believe it or not, are low level measures that should stay in place for years. That would mean it wouldn't really be possible to stage concerts, gigs, have fans in football stadia etc.
Post-vaccination, and with herd immunity achieved, do you believe all restrictions should go and complete normality resume? What do you make of Ronan Glynn talking about 'a degree of normality'?
What do you make of this article: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/02/the-great-reset-global-digital-sustainability/
"Individuals, much as we each yearn to return to life as it was before the pandemic, have to adjust to a life that has greater restrictions on what we can do"
Did you vote for WEF or Chandran Nair to decide how you should live your life? Does it look as though WEF is taking advantage of covid to usher in a new normal restricted way of life?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Not hospitalisations and ICU numbers? Herd immunity?
Or does it have to be 0, or close to 0, cases?
no, because hospitalisations and ICU numbers go up 2-4 weeks after infection, and possibly when the R rate is above 1 at that point ....
Then you're back into re-action rather than pro-active
Heard immunity will go hand in hand with vaccination numbers and will be tied in with positive test cases as part of the metric...
edit:
Christmas was a prime example of this, with the first rise in infection rates after New Years, with hospitalisations starting to rise shortly after....
The restriction measures came in straight after Christmas, if it were left until the 2 weeks after when hospital numbers started to rise, we'd still be cleaning that mess up now0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I'm focusing more on the OP's saying that the measures are permanent, not his opinion on a plot to implement Communism.
?
The original poster believes all measures are nothing to do with the pandemic and everything to do with some loony dystopian Communist fantasy.
Conspiracy theorists are paranoid, they think politicians wake up every day consumed with nefarious notions to enslave/control humanity, and even since Covid has come along they've all gone into overdrive imagining that common sense measures against the virus are in fact secret permanent measures to "control" people, yadda, yadda
Some individuals can't comprehend that we aren't in control of this pandemic, and they comfort themselves with these fantasies.I read his articles on RT and what he says on Twitter. He also says he has an inside source in the Government, which means he may know what's going to happen before it's announced.
RT is Russia Today, an English speaking outlet for the Kremlin which entertains just about every crank conspiracist and anti-Westerner going.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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