All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

arccosh

buzzerxx wrote: »

60,000 Doctors, Scientists, and medical professionals have signed The Great Barrington Declaration and are being ignored.
Are they all about anti-science ?

they aren't being ignored, their proposal has been discussed at length and still is in many countries .....

not getting your way does not equate to being ignored

Dohnjoe

buzzerxx wrote: »

60,000 Doctors, Scientists, and medical professionals have signed The Great Barrington Declaration and are being ignored.
Are they all about anti-science ?

Anyone can sign up for that and claim they are a medical professional. That said, 60k is still not a lot considering there are millions upon millions of medical professionals in the world. It's simply another opinion on lockdowns, albeit one that doesn't have much consensus, what does it have to do with the conspiracies in this thread or measures being permanent?

buzzerxx

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Anyone can sign up for that and claim they are a medical professional. That said, 60k is still not a lot considering there are millions upon millions of medical professionals in the world. It's simply another opinion on lockdowns, albeit one that doesn't have much consensus, what does it have to do with the conspiracies in this thread or measures being permanent?

The brave professionals that are speaking out are doing so at great cost and risk to themselves because they care about people not money or themselves.

Conspiracy theories and covid 19 is in the title so its everything got to do with it

Dohnjoe

buzzerxx wrote: »

The brave professionals that are speaking out are doing so at great cost and risk to themselves because they care about people not money or themselves.

It's people from the internet, some of whom might be professionals. There's nothing "brave" about it, it's simply another opinion.

Conspiracy theories and covid 19 is in the title so its everything got to do with it

What does it have to do with conspiracies?
What is the link with all measures being "permanent"?

aido79

buzzerxx wrote: »

The brave professionals that are speaking out are doing so at great cost and risk to themselves because they care about people not money or themselves.

Conspiracy theories and covid 19 is in the title so its everything got to do with it

The Great Barrington Declaration means about as much as a letter from Santa saying it will all come to an end by next Christmas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html%3famp

buzzerxx

aido79 wrote: »

The Great Barrington Declaration means about as much as a letter from Santa saying it will all come to an end by next Christmas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html%3famp

Your propaganda source is proven to be biased We need to campaign for a more pluralistic media in which a genuine diversity of views, voices and opinions are aired.
Dictators directly control the media. However, democratically elected governments can, in some cases such as the UK and USA in particular, achieve the same result by allowing the media to be owned by billionaire businessmen who seek to profit from promoting and even influencing government policy.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reasons-why-we-don-t-have-free-and-independent-press-in-uk-and-what-we-can-do-about/

King Mob

buzzerxx wrote: »

60,000 Doctors, Scientists, and medical professionals have signed The Great Barrington Declaration and are being ignored.
Are they all about anti-science ?

No.
Please show where they are being treated like people were during Nazi rule.

Please also show where the people who've signed this declaration believe in a giant global conspiracy to make the covid measure permanent.

Also could you tell us which measures will be permanent and why?

buzzerxx

King Mob wrote: »

No.
Please show where they are being treated like people were during Nazi rule.

Please also show where the people who've signed this declaration believe in a giant global conspiracy to make the covid measure permanent.

Also could you tell us which measures will be permanent and why?

What are you on about? I never said anything about being treated like people were during Nazi rule.

buzzerxx

Look at these abhorrent people. How dare they question the ''official'' narrative and reasons for locking doctors up.

Don't be a boiling Frog.


https://twitter.com/demo2020cracy/status/1378505270180069389?s=21&fbclid=IwAR2viU6LCYQU8xrVf6dFOXlwyIh9dfTBwXkBX1BONRYyAVnKxHbEVanCHYY

aido79

buzzerxx wrote: »

Your propaganda source is proven to be biased We need to campaign for a more pluralistic media in which a genuine diversity of views, voices and opinions are aired.
Dictators directly control the media. However, democratically elected governments can, in some cases such as the UK and USA in particular, achieve the same result by allowing the media to be owned by billionaire businessmen who seek to profit from promoting and even influencing government policy.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reasons-why-we-don-t-have-free-and-independent-press-in-uk-and-what-we-can-do-about/

Nothing to do with propaganda. I can sign The Great Barrington Declaration as Dr Buzzerxx from the Institute of Boards.ie right now and that's one more irrelevant signature on it. It's about as well respected as a covid meme on Facebook.

Dohnjoe

buzzerxx wrote: »

Your propaganda source is proven to be biased We need to campaign for a more pluralistic media in which a genuine diversity of views, voices and opinions are aired.
Dictators directly control the media. However, democratically elected governments can, in some cases such as the UK and USA in particular, achieve the same result by allowing the media to be owned by billionaire businessmen who seek to profit from promoting and even influencing government policy.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reasons-why-we-don-t-have-free-and-independent-press-in-uk-and-what-we-can-do-about/

Did you miss my questions about the Barrington Declaration, if so, here they are again

What does it have to do with conspiracies?
What is the link with all measures being "permanent"?

aido79

buzzerxx wrote: »

Look at these abhorrent people. How dare they question the ''official'' narrative and reasons for locking doctors up.

Don't be a boiling Frog.


https://twitter.com/demo2020cracy/status/1378505270180069389?s=21&fbclid=IwAR2viU6LCYQU8xrVf6dFOXlwyIh9dfTBwXkBX1BONRYyAVnKxHbEVanCHYY

You do know she's a psychiatrist don't you and against all vaccines not just covid vaccines?
She basically the Serbian equivalent of Dolores Cahill using her title to convince people like yourself into believing that just because she has a medical qualification she is automatically an expert on covid.

Dohnjoe

buzzerxx wrote: »

Look at these abhorrent people. How dare they question the ''official'' narrative and reasons for locking doctors up.

Don't be a boiling Frog.


https://twitter.com/demo2020cracy/status/1378505270180069389?s=21&fbclid=IwAR2viU6LCYQU8xrVf6dFOXlwyIh9dfTBwXkBX1BONRYyAVnKxHbEVanCHYY

It's an anti-vax loon spreading medical disinformation and lies. Under Serb law, they consider it a public health risk and can take action.

https://www.serbianmonitor.com/en/associated-press-serbian-police-arrests-anti-vaccination-activists/

Conspiracy theorists are the worst offenders when it comes to spreading outright misinformation and falsehoods.

Dohnjoe

Once again the stunning correlation between anti-vaxxers and Covid-deniers/conspiracy theorists

The gullible led by the ignorant, and someone making a shedload of money off both

King Mob

buzzerxx wrote: »

What are you on about? I never said anything about being treated like people were during Nazi rule.

Ok. So what has your post to do with my post then?

Also could you explain how the people who signed this declaration are being "brave"?

And maybe could you have a swing at the other questions I asked?

Pinch Flat

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Once again the stunning correlation between anti-vaxxers and Covid-deniers/conspiracy theorists

The gullible led by the ignorant, and someone making a shedload of money off both

Ah look you're wasting your time. People that have gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole are beyond help. I mentioned up thread about a mate whose gone full tin foil. Pretty much everything is a conspiracy in his eyes by "them". Facebook feed is full or paranoia and fear. False information is digested without question. It's evangelical and cult like. The ideas are getting crazier and crazier. Apparently the cold weather we are having of late is geo engineering by "them" to delay spring and stop us growing our own food

bb1234567

buzzerxx wrote: »

The brave professionals that are speaking out are doing so at great cost and risk to themselves because they care about people not money or themselves.

Conspiracy theories and covid 19 is in the title so its everything got to do with it

LOL. Like Ivor Cummins who is pushing payments for his private membership material every single day? Yeh a truly selfless man. It's not like all of these cranks have received inordinately disproportionate social media exposure by virtue of how much of a minority opinion they hold. Oh yeh , I'm sure they are hating that new found fame, clearly their lives have been completely ruined by having an army of twitter dullards who lap up every single thing they say! Who they post to 24/7. It replaced their job honey, and they're loving it, wake up sheeple!

bb1234567

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Once again the stunning correlation between anti-vaxxers and Covid-deniers/conspiracy theorists

The gullible led by the ignorant, and someone making a shedload of money off both

I've often wondered why these two phenomena correlate so strongly? Who hurt them to have so much distrust in governments or other forms of authority? What could possibly go so wrong in somebody's life for them to hold these stances, in a country like Ireland.

Also I don't think they're being led by the ignorant necessarily, I think it's a bit more sinister. I don't think many of the popular conspiracy theorists on twitter believe much of what comes out of their own mouth, it's all so clearly edited to pander to what their audience wants to hear.

King Mob

bb1234567 wrote: »

Also I don't think they're being led by the ignorant necessarily, I think it's a bit more sinister. I don't think many of the popular conspiracy theorists on twitter believe much of what comes out of their own mouth, it's all so clearly edited to pander to what their audience wants to hear.

A lot of the conspiracy mongers have it set up that they don't actually outright make statements of their beliefs. They're not saying "it's a giant global conspiracy" they're pointedly asking "is it a giant global conspiracy? Support my patreon to find out!"

This "just asking questions" is a lot easier to justify and possibly even slip into unknowingly.

There are plenty out there who are ballfaced opportunists though.

PintOfView

PintOfView wrote: »

It would be a good idea to extend the healthy scepticism you (rightly) have for what Boris Johnson says, also to what Lord Sumption says, and probably to a good many more politicians.

None of this stuff is set in stone, and politicians give their view at the moment they're asked.
The view they give may be correct, or incorrect (depending on their own understanding),
or true, or half true, or even completely untrue (depending on whether they want to tell you or not).

However as circumstances change, either due to the virus, or perhaps public opinion, then their responses may change.
And this is often a good thing, and shows that democracy is working (they'll often reflect what their constituents are thinking).

And different politicians may draw different conclusions, even from similar data. Sometimes that's to be
consistent with what they said before, so they're not seen to u-turn and admit they might have been wrong the first time.
So it doesn't surprise me that mask recommendations are different between Sweden and Spain, for eg., or Brazil.
It all depends on who is making the decisions, and when, etc.

And doesn't that also show you the difficulty a global cabal would have in even trying to rein in all these different countries, and make them all do their bidding, never mind actually succeeding?

But Lord Sumption doesn't have the power to lock down a country and roll out vaccine passports. As a result, his opinion doesn't carry as much weight as Johnson's. That is not to say that his opinion is not important, however, just that Johnson has power.

When they were giving their view and ruling out vaccine passports they were doing so while the vaccine passport system was in late stage development: https://newspunch.com/uk-govt-secretly-planned-for-vaccine-passports-all-along-we-know-best/

And before the source is bashed, that article quotes an article from The Guardian: "The Guardian notes that the document “details research into possible public attitudes to a Covid certificate, sometimes called a domestic Covid passport. This would use vaccination status, a recent negative Covid test or proof of coronavirus antibodies to allow people into potentially packed places when the country opens up.”"

So while those individuals I mentioned were saying 'no plans for vaccine passports' in February the very vaccine passports they were ruling out were being planned, according to The Guardian. So were they lying when they said they wouldn't be introduced?

I understand that there are a number of factors that determine health policy in a country. But I am specifically referring to one particular measure. In Spain a person who is walking alone in the countryside is required by law to wear a mask. In Sweden a person who is walking alone in the countryside is not required by law to wear a mask. It was claimed that a child could understand the measures taken. Do you understand why in Spain walking in the countryside would require a mask, but walking in the countryside in Sweden would not? Whether it is enforced or not is not the issue. I'm specifically referring to the rationale behind that specific measure in the case of both Spain and Sweden. Nothing else. I cannot emphasise that enough. That specific measure. I asked the question a number of times, but did not get an answer. I am happy to discuss it you.

bb1234567

bb1234567 wrote: »

I've often wondered why these two phenomena correlate so strongly? Who hurt them to have so much distrust in governments or other forms of authority? What could possibly go so wrong in somebody's life for them to hold these stances, in a country like Ireland.

Also I don't think they're being led by the ignorant necessarily, I think it's a bit more sinister. I don't think many of the popular conspiracy theorists on twitter believe much of what comes out of their own mouth, it's all so clearly edited to pander to what their audience wants to hear.

Can you understand why people in the US, particularly African Americans, mightn't trust the CDC: https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-study

"The men were monitored by health workers but only given placebos such as aspirin and mineral supplements, despite the fact that penicillin became the recommended treatment for syphilis in 1947, some 15 years into the study. PHS researchers convinced local physicians in Macon County not to treat the participants, and instead research was done at the Tuskegee Institute. (Now called Tuskegee University, the school was founded in 1881 with Booker T. Washington at its first teacher.)

In order to track the disease’s full progression, researchers provided no effective care as the men died, went blind or insane or experienced other severe health problems due to their untreated syphilis."

Just to go back to the thread title, in the UK "companies have been sounded out by the government about the possibility of implementing up to six months of social distancing each year and the longer-term use of masks and see-through plastic screens as they plan for a return to the office."

So would six months of social distancing every year mean permanent social distancing in the UK?

https://www.ft.com/content/e1051900-374e-476d-bd3b-b7770559e75b

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to go back to the thread title, in the UK "companies have been sounded out by the government about the possibility of implementing up to six months of social distancing each year and the longer-term use of masks and see-through plastic screens as they plan for a return to the office."

So would six months of social distancing every year mean permanent social distancing in the UK?
https://www.ft.com/content/e1051900-374e-476d-bd3b-b7770559e75b

Ok. so the claim now is that social distancing will be permanent for 6 months out of the year.
Why?
How does this benefit the people who are behind this push?

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm specifically referring to the rationale behind that specific measure in the case of both Spain and Sweden. Nothing else. I cannot emphasise that enough. That specific measure. I asked the question a number of times, but did not get an answer. I am happy to discuss it you.

This has been answered directly to you several times.
It's very very hypocritical for you lie and claim this given the huge amounts of dodging and deflecting you have done.

Specifically, you've been asked many times to explain the real reason for the differences in this measures. You have ignored this question every single time.

Again, why are you doing this and why do you think this helps your position?
It's making you very dishonest and untrustworthy.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. so the claim now is that social distancing will be permanent for 6 months out of the year.
Why?
How does this benefit the people who are behind this push?


This has been answered directly to you several times.
It's very very hypocritical for you lie and claim this given the huge amounts of dodging and deflecting you have done.

Specifically, you've been asked many times to explain the real reason for the differences in this measures. You have ignored this question every single time.

Again, why are you doing this and why do you think this helps your position?
It's making you very dishonest and untrustworthy.

You'll have to ask the UK Government. They're the ones proposing it. If 6 months of social distancing every year isn't permanent then I give up.

You still haven't stated whether you believe the US Government when it says there won't be vaccine passports. You claimed you were misinterpreted.

It has not been answered directly. All I got was "Jesus Christ ..." and "Again we see conspiracy theorists ..." followed by 4 or 5 'thank yous'.

It's a simple question: Why is mandatory to wear a mask alone in the countryside in Spain, but not mandatory to wear a mask alone in the countryside in Sweden? Is the countryside different in Spain? A comparison was made with weed. It's easy to understand why weed might be legal in one country, but not in another. Health authorities in country A determine that weed is dangerous, but in country B they come to the opposite conclusion. It is not a question of whether country A or B is right. It's that one can understand the rationale.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to go back to the thread title, in the UK "companies have been sounded out by the government about the possibility of implementing up to six months of social distancing each year and the longer-term use of masks and see-through plastic screens as they plan for a return to the office."

Constantly attempting to cast doubt on the situation isn't going to make any of the conspiracies come true, you do realise that right?

"This minister said X" and "Y didn't happen" and "I don't get Z" aren't going to magically breathe life into the conspiracy by OP that Communists are using Covid to take over the world.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Constantly attempting to cast doubt on the situation isn't going to make any of the conspiracies come true, you do realise that right?

"This minister said X" and "Y didn't happen" isn't going to magically breathe life into the conspiracy by OP that Communists are using Covid to take over the world.

If the UK requires social distancing for 6 months every year in workplaces is that measure permanent?

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll have to ask the UK Government. They're the ones proposing it. If 6 months of social distancing every year isn't permanent then I give up.

But I'm asking you what you believe. You dodged the question because you can't answer it honestly.

Answer it now please:

Why?
How does this benefit the people who are behind this push?

Deleted User wrote: »

You still haven't stated whether you believe the US Government when it says there won't be vaccine passports. You claimed you were misinterpreted.

Yes. You misrepresented me and claimed that I "believed everything the government said".
I pointed out this dishonest misrepresentation, you ignored it.

I also asked you to explain why you believe they claimed this and why other countries changed their positions.
Again, you ignored this because you can't answer it honestly.
Please answer it now.

Deleted User wrote: »

It has not been answered directly. All I got was "Jesus Christ ..." and "Again we see conspiracy theorists ..." followed by 4 or 5 'thank yous'.

Yea, and in those posts, they explain the answer to you.

Yet, you do repeat the same tactic over and over again. You ignore this points because you cannot address them honestly.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a simple question: Why is mandatory to wear a mask alone in the countryside in Spain, but not mandatory to wear a mask alone in the countryside in Sweden?

Because Sweden and Spain are different countries with different leaders, different laws, different populations and different circumstances.

Please stop lying and claiming this hasn't been explained to you.

Also, please answer my question you've ignored several times now:
What do you believe is the real answer to this?

If you ignore any or all of these questions again, as I suspect you will, it will be taken as an admission by you that you can't answer them honestly.

arccosh

That FT article is specific to offices only

King Mob

arccosh wrote: »

That FT article is specific to offices only

Funny how all these articles don't seem to support the conspiracy theory when you read past the headlines...

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

If the UK requires social distancing for 6 months every year in workplaces is that measure permanent?

Again, you are entertaining conspiracies here by casting doubt and using incredulity (like the above)

It's whack-a-mole, once someone explains this to you, then you move onto the next thing you can find, and so on and so on. We've been through this panto many times in this thread.

It's very simple, it's clear you believe "something is going on", what is that, detail it, with evidence (proper evidence)

If you can't, then you are doing nothing but engaging in mindless petty denial. Which is this entire thread.