All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

But I'm asking you what you believe. You dodged the question because you can't answer it honestly.

Answer it now please:




Yes. You misrepresented me and claimed that I "believed everything the government said".
I pointed out this dishonest misrepresentation, you ignored it.

I also asked you to explain why you believe they claimed this and why other countries changed their positions.
Again, you ignored this because you can't answer it honestly.
Please answer it now.


Yea, and in those posts, they explain the answer to you.

Yet, you do repeat the same tactic over and over again. You ignore this points because you cannot address them honestly.


Because Sweden and Spain are different countries with different leaders, different laws, different populations and different circumstances.

Please stop lying and claiming this hasn't been explained to you.

Also, please answer my question you've ignored several times now:
What do you believe is the real answer to this?

If you ignore any or all of these questions again, as I suspect you will, it will be taken as an admission by you that you can't answer them honestly.

"Because Sweden and Spain are different countries with different leaders, different laws, different populations and different circumstances." has nothing to do with why masks are mandatory in the countryside in Spain when walking alone, but not in Sweden in the exact same scenario. It's a specific measure I'm referring to. You can't answer it because no one could possibly answer it. It doesn't make sense.

When you posted the link to that BBC article about the US Government ruling out vaccine passports and wrote 'I guess the US isn't in on the plan' (or whatever you wrote exactly) what did you mean by what you wrote? Did you mean that you didn't believe what the US Government was saying? I never said you believed everything the government said. I said that one should take what the government says with a pinch of salt. The UK Government was busy ruling out vaccine passports while the vaccine passport system was in late stage development.

I'm increasingly open to the measures not being permanent in certain countries. I don't agree with every point brianhere made. But I would argue that there is currently no evidence in Western Europe to suggest that certain measures will be a thing of the past. Even in the UK where deaths and case numbers are on the floor the talk is of masks and social distancing for years.

The real answer to what? The masks in the countryside in Spain vs Sweden thing?

arccosh

arccosh wrote: »

That FT article is specific to offices only

So permanent social distancing for half a year every year in workplaces/offices.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

. The real answer to what? The masks in the countryside in Spain vs Sweden thing?

Yea, notice how you dodged all of my questions entirely.
This is utterly dishonest.

You can't answer any of them.

You have admitted this now.

You can't answer them because the conspiracy theories aren't true. You know this, yet you keep pretending otherwise.
Why?

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Again, you are entertaining conspiracies here by casting doubt and using incredulity (like the above)

It's whack-a-mole, once someone explains this to you, then you move onto the next thing you can find, and so on and so on. We've been through this panto many times in this thread.

It's very simple, it's clear you believe "something is going on", what is that, detail it, with evidence (proper evidence)

If you can't, then you are doing nothing but engaging in mindless petty denial. Which is this entire thread.

There's no doubt when the UK Government is being very open about it. The fact that they are even entertaining the idea of social distancing every 6 months in workplaces every year should concern people.

Lord Sumption said it was unreasonable to believe that the Government would give up control and that people should be prepared to wear masks and socially distance for 10 years. Do you agree with lord Sumption? The 'something going on' could simply be, as Lord Sumption says, governments holding onto power.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

"Because Sweden and Spain are different countries with different leaders, different laws, different populations and different circumstances." has nothing to do with why masks are mandatory in the countryside in Spain when walking alone, but not in Sweden in the exact same scenario. It's a specific measure I'm referring to. You can't answer it because no one could possibly answer it. It doesn't make sense.

It's been explained to you repeatedly. You are choosing to subjectively reject those explanations.

Why does one country drive on the right and another country drive on the left?

Why does the US use the imperial system and pretty much the rest of the world uses the metric system?

Different countries with differing reasons behind.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no doubt when the UK Government is being very open about it. The fact that they are even entertaining the idea of social distancing every 6 months in workplaces every year should concern people.

Lord Sumption said it was unreasonable to believe that the Government would give up control and that people should be prepared to wear masks and socially distance for 10 years. Do you agree with lord Sumption? The 'something going on' could simply be, as Lord Sumption says, governments holding onto power.

But as you've admitted, there's no possible reason for them to push for these measures beyond stopping the virus.
When the virus is less of a threat, these POTENTIAL measures will be eased and stopped.

You should also stop demanding answers to questions. It's very very hypocritical of you.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no doubt when the UK Government is being very open about it. The fact that they are even entertaining the idea of social distancing every 6 months in workplaces every year should concern people.

Lord Sumption said it was unreasonable to believe that the Government would give up control and that people should be prepared to wear masks and socially distance for 10 years. Do you agree with lord Sumption? The 'something going on' could simply be, as Lord Sumption says, governments holding onto power.

People are addressing your questions, you are dodging theirs

I'll ask again:

It's very simple, it's clear you believe "something is going on", what is that, detail it, with evidence (proper evidence)

arccosh

Deleted User wrote: »

So permanent social distancing for half a year every year in workplaces/offices.

You really need to start reading these articles you're posting

"An ally of Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, said the government was very unlikely to impose six months of social distancing each year"

arccosh

arccosh wrote: »

You really need to start reading these articles you're posting

"An ally of Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, said the government was very unlikely to impose six months of social distancing each year"

You mean the government that repeatedly ruled out vaccine passports while the vaccine passport system they were ruling out was in late stage development?

Dohnjoe

Watch it in action

1. Act incredulous about facts
2. Demand that people explain them, and reject those explanations
3. Claim a conspiracy is happening
4. Dodge questions about the conspiracy
5. Validate other posters with completely different and contradictory conspiracies
6. Repeat step 1

We're stuck on repeat of the bolded section for now

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean the government that repeatedly ruled out vaccine passports while the vaccine passport system they were ruling out was in late stage development?

The government that also says they're going to impose permanent social distancing?

This is the same article you posted. Are you claiming the article is lying now?

Why are you still ignoring questions?

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Watch it in action

1. Act incredulous about facts
2. Demand that people explain them, and reject those explanations
3. Claim a conspiracy is happening
4. Dodge questions about the conspiracy
5. Validate other posters with completely different and contradictory conspiracies
6. Repeat step 1

You keep writing these kinds of posts. You'll get 4 or 5 'thank yous', but I just don't understand what the point of them is.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's been explained to you repeatedly. You are choosing to subjectively reject those explanations.

Why does one country drive on the right and another country drive on the left?

Why does the US use the imperial system and pretty much the rest of the world uses the metric system?

Different countries with differing reasons behind.

The point is there there's no reasoning behind a mask being mandatory when alone in the countryside in one country, but not being mandatory when alone in the countryside in another country.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep writing these kinds of posts. You'll get 4 or 5 'thank yous', but I just don't understand what the point of them is.

Because it's highlighting the intellectual dishonesty that is required to believe in the conspiracy theories you believe in.

Deleted User wrote: »

The point is there there's no reasoning behind a mask being mandatory when alone in the countryside in one country, but not being mandatory when alone in the countryside in another country.

Ok. That's what you believe.
But as you admitted, there's no reasoning why a giant global conspiracy would do this either. So you must conclude that there's no global conspiracy and your beliefs are wrong.

Right?

The Nal

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no doubt when the UK Government is being very open about it. The fact that they are even entertaining the idea of social distancing every 6 months in workplaces every year should concern people.

Lord Sumption said it was unreasonable to believe that the Government would give up control and that people should be prepared to wear masks and socially distance for 10 years. Do you agree with lord Sumption? The 'something going on' could simply be, as Lord Sumption says, governments holding onto power.

Again, because he has "Lord" before his name people seem to take his views as gospel. Much like anyone with any sort of "Dr" before their name.

If he went by plain old Jonathan Sumption no one would give a ****.

The Nal

The Nal wrote: »

Again, because he has "Lord" before his name people seem to take his views as gospel. Much like anyone with any sort of "Dr" before their name.

If he went by plain old Jonathan Sumption no one would give a ****.

You don't think the opinion of a former Supreme Court judge and eminent historian carries weight? It is not taking it as gospel, but just considering it to be important.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't think the opinion of a former Supreme Court judge and eminent historian carries weight? It is not taking it as gospel, but just considering it to be important.

Argument from authority.

There's been thousands of doctors and other experts equally as qualified who you conspiracy theorists reject out of hand with no evidence.

Why do you think that ignoring questions and using fallacies like this is going to convince anyone?

The Nal

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't think the opinion of a former Supreme Court judge and eminent historian carries weight? It is not taking it as gospel, but just considering it to be important.

Is he a virologist? What qualifies him to make such statements? Because he wrote a book about WW2?

What about all the other Supreme Court judges and eminent historians who haven't made those claims?

arccosh

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean the government that repeatedly ruled out vaccine passports while the vaccine passport system they were ruling out was in late stage development?

you really need to look at the full details man and stop sensationalising it...

Vaccine cert which is already tied in with the existing track and trace app the NHS use (essentially all it's doing is allowing the app look at your NHS record to see if you've had it).....
which will be supplemented by proof of negative Covid test in lieu of of a cert...

given I had to get a test a few weeks back, booked it at 0900, had the drive through test at 0930 and results by 1730, that's not a big ask

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

The point is there there's no reasoning behind a mask being mandatory when alone in the countryside in one country, but not being mandatory when alone in the countryside in another country.

It's been explained to you. Spain has decided to make masks mandatory on their beaches. It's probably down to a bunch of factors, including the fact that Spain is a popular beach holiday destination, whereas a country like Sweden isn't.

You "not getting" that doesn't mean anything. Asking that question over and over again is a tactic.

It's a tactic to deflect from the fact that you have expressed multiple times that you believe a big conspiracy is going on. So I'll ask for the third time, what is that conspiracy exactly? what are the details of it and what is the evidence for it?

If you don't think any conspiracy is happening whatsoever, just say so and you can go back to this incredulity act about Covid measures without the cumbersome effort of having to demonstrate that conspiracy.

I strongly suspect you'll sit on the fence about it so you can do both.

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I strongly suspect you'll sit on the fence about it so you can do both.

I suspect that it's because like other conspiracy theorists, they have learned that if they are direct and honest about what they believe, people quickly stop taking them seriously.

They know their conspiracy theory doesn't make sense and can't stand up to a bare level of questioning.
If they ignore and dodge and stay silent about their beliefs, they can pretend to informed for longer.
If they don't then the illusion falls apart.

arccosh

also, research Madrid Municipal area's lockdown measures before including Spain....

they are the crux as to why Spain's numbers are so high and the reason surrounding areas have introduced excessive measures ... not due to international tourists, but internal tourism originating from Madrid.

bb1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you understand why people in the US, particularly African Americans, mightn't trust the CDC: https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-study

"The men were monitored by health workers but only given placebos such as aspirin and mineral supplements, despite the fact that penicillin became the recommended treatment for syphilis in 1947, some 15 years into the study. PHS researchers convinced local physicians in Macon County not to treat the participants, and instead research was done at the Tuskegee Institute. (Now called Tuskegee University, the school was founded in 1881 with Booker T. Washington at its first teacher.)

In order to track the disease’s full progression, researchers provided no effective care as the men died, went blind or insane or experienced other severe health problems due to their untreated syphilis."

Yeh it's why I said why would people in Ireland demonstrate this level of distrust

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

I suspect that it's because like other conspiracy theorists, they have learned that if they are direct and honest about what they believe, people quickly stop taking them seriously.

They know their conspiracy theory doesn't make sense and can't stand up to a bare level of questioning.
If they ignore and dodge and stay silent about their beliefs, they can pretend to informed for longer.
If they don't then the illusion falls apart.

Indeed, there is so much deception involved. Politicians could learn a thing or two here. Ironically when mainstream conspiracy theorists, e.g. Alex Jones, Sidney Powell, Marjorie Taylor Greene are put under legal scrutiny they immediately admit it's all complete bull****.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's been explained to you. Spain has decided to make masks mandatory on their beaches. It's probably down to a bunch of factors, including the fact that Spain is a popular beach holiday destination, whereas a country like Sweden isn't.

You "not getting" that doesn't mean anything. Asking that question over and over again is a tactic.

It's a tactic to deflect from the fact that you have expressed multiple times that you believe a big conspiracy is going on. So I'll ask for the third time, what is that conspiracy exactly? what are the details of it and what is the evidence for it?

If you don't think any conspiracy is happening whatsoever, just say so and you can go back to this incredulity act about Covid measures without the cumbersome effort of having to demonstrate that conspiracy.

I strongly suspect you'll sit on the fence about it so you can do both.

I don't know how many times I can point out that I'm specifically referring to them being mandatory in the countryside when walking alone in Spain, but not being mandatory in the countryside when walking alone in the countryside in the Sweden. I'm not talking about beaches. I'm not talking about whether it's enforced or not. The obvious answer is 'I don't know why' because there's no logic to it.

I think it's what Lord Sumption is saying, that it's unrealistic to believe that governments will give up (complete) control. For example, I can't see any justification for any restrictions in the UK based on the data. Deaths and case numbers are on the floor. There was even a model the other day which predicts that the UK will reach herd immunity on Monday. And despite all of that vaccine passports are set to be rolled out, and there's talk of social distancing and mask wearing for years from SAGE and PHE.

People might point to Australia and New Zealand where measures have been dropped completely in states, but Australia and New Zealand haven't had the measures in place for as long as countries in Europe, the US, Canada, South America etc. But it is a good thing that we have an example of countries getting rid of measures completely.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know how many times I can point out

I'll for the fourth time:

What is that conspiracy exactly? what are the details of it and what is the evidence for it?

If you don't believe any conspiracy is taking place regarding Covid, just say so

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know how many times I can point out that I

About as many times as it's been explained to you.
And about as many times as you've ignored my question about it.

You have admitted that this doesn't make sense in the context of a conspiracy.
So why do you still believe in a conspiracy you admit doesn't make sense?

King Mob

And isn't it odd. We're 230+ pages and nearly 3500 posts in.
This entire time we've been asking, practically begging conspiracy theorists to explain what they believe, the motivations behind the conspiracy and why they believe it.
No one seems willing to actually discuss the conspiracy theories.

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

And isn't it odd. We're 230+ pages and nearly 3500 posts in.
This entire time we've been asking, practically begging conspiracy theorists to explain what they believe, the motivations behind the conspiracy and why they believe it.
No one seems willing to actually discuss the conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy by denial is more fun and requires virtually no effort.

We've gone from:

"Masks are muzzles!!"

to

"Okay they aren't muzzles, but they don't work!!"

to

"You can't explain to me how they work, so they don't!"

to

"Okay I guess they work a bit, but not enough!!"

to

"Right they work but why are the rules different, can't explain that to me"

buzzerxx

No matter how anti conspiracy minded you are something has to be telling you that something is not right about all of this.