All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is not about public health, but all about making sure that measures introduced ostensibly to stop the spread of Covid-19 become permanent. Yes, once again the much-derided ‘crackpot conspiracy theorists’ of 2020 have been proved right.

Care to explain why any measures being made permanent would benefit anyone?
How does me wearing a mask help Bill Gates?

Fighting Tao

Imagine that! Measures are being lifted in England: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52530518

How do ye guys explain that when it comes to the measures being permanent?

Notmything

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Imagine that! Measures are being lifted in England: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52530518

How do ye guys explain that when it comes to the measures being permanent?

The usual tactic, ignore the issue and distract by asking why is something happening or not happening in another country.

Fighting Tao

Notmything wrote: »

The usual tactic, ignore the issue and distract by asking why is something happening or not happening in another country.

Oh, I know. Their mothers must be proud that they raised such honest children :pac:

Pinch Flat

Looks like Ashling might have been hanging out with Jim Corr a bit too long.

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/former-xpose-presenter-says-people-are-being-blackmailed-into-getting-the-covid-jab-in-anti-vax-rant-40288188.html

The Nal

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Imagine that! Measures are being lifted in England: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52530518

How do ye guys explain that when it comes to the measures being permanent?

They'll run away to a safe echo chamber on Facebook and the like, wait until the thread gets to the next page and then come back in with some more link dumps.

Fighting Tao

The Nal wrote: »

They'll run away to a safe echo chamber on Facebook and the like, wait until the thread gets to the next page and then come back in with some more link dumps.

Possibly re-register here too.

Dr. Bre

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Imagine that! Measures are being lifted in England: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52530518

How do ye guys explain that when it comes to the measures being permanent?

It’s the next one that’s the big one

Timberrrrrrrr

Dr. Bre wrote: »

It’s the next one that’s the big one

They said that about the last one.

Guy:Incognito

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Looks like Ashling might have been hanging out with Jim Corr a bit too long.

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/former-xpose-presenter-says-people-are-being-blackmailed-into-getting-the-covid-jab-in-anti-vax-rant-40288188.html

She got most of the buzzwords in there, fair play to her. All the "kids gasping for breath" "breathing your own waste air " " experimental vaccine"

Its a wonder any healthcare professionals have survived to middle age since masks were invented..........


Any reports of skiers dying young in large number? They've been covering their faces for decades. I'm just sorry that by watching the winter Olympics all these years I've been partaking in the killing of those poor athletes.

Guy:Incognito

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

They said that about the last one.

Sure the Q anon idiots have been led along on a lead for a couple of years now with things that are definitely going to happen only they don't.

Wonder how Obama and Hilary are holding up in their prison cells that they were definitely getting locked up in a few years ago according to trump?

Dr. Bre

Dr. Bre wrote: »

It’s the next one that’s the big one

Still have to wear a mask, socially distance, test yourself twice a week, stand outside a supermarket in the pouring rain to do a bit of shopping, will soon have to produce your vaccine passport, can't leave the country. All in spite of there being 3 deaths within 28 days of a positive PCR test in the whole of England yesterday (https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1381326211285188616?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) and more than half the population living in areas with virtually no cases: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9458487/More-HALF-Englands-population-areas-virtually-no-new-Covid-cases.html

And Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is predicting low level measures such as social distancing (how social distancing is a low level restriction for businesses, I do not know) and mask wearing will continue for years.

Contrast that with New South Wales: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-24/nsw-covid-19-restrictions-easing-from-monday-march-29/100025548

Fighting Tao

Deleted User wrote: »

Still have to wear a mask, socially distance, test yourself twice a week, stand outside a supermarket in the pouring rain to do a bit of shopping, will soon have to produce your vaccine passport, can't leave the country. All in spite of there being 3 deaths within 28 days of a positive PCR test in the whole of England yesterday (https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1381326211285188616?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) and more than half the population living in areas with virtually no cases: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9458487/More-HALF-Englands-population-areas-virtually-no-new-Covid-cases.html

And Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is predicting low level measures such as social distancing (how social distancing is a low level restriction for businesses, I do not know) and mask wearing will continue for years.

Contrast that with New South Wales: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-24/nsw-covid-19-restrictions-easing-from-monday-march-29/100025548

Does this post have a point?

The Nal

Deleted User wrote: »

And Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is predicting low level measures such as social distancing (how social distancing is a low level restriction for businesses, I do not know) and mask wearing will continue for years.

She said "until other countries successfully roll out jabs" and "its very important that we do not relax too quickly" which seems to make sense.

Nothing permanent about that.

Deleted User wrote: »

All in spite of there being 3 deaths within 28 days of a positive PCR test in the whole of England yesterday

Report on a Sunday :rolleyes:

And hes wrong anyway, it was 7 people. But 40 the day before that, 60 the day before that, 53 the day before that. So theres 160 deaths since Thursday.

Someone hasnt "done their research".

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Does this post have a point?

Just another garden variety link dump and quote mine.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still have to wear a mask, socially distance, test yourself twice a week, stand outside a supermarket in the pouring rain to do a bit of shopping, will soon have to produce your vaccine passport, can't leave the country. All in spite of there being 3 deaths within 28 days of a positive PCR test in the whole of England yesterday (https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1381326211285188616?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) and more than half the population living in areas with virtually no cases: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9458487/More-HALF-Englands-population-areas-virtually-no-new-Covid-cases.html

And Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is predicting low level measures such as social distancing (how social distancing is a low level restriction for businesses, I do not know) and mask wearing will continue for years.

Contrast that with New South Wales: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-24/nsw-covid-19-restrictions-easing-from-monday-march-29/100025548

Queues outside the barbers/ hairdressers/ charity shops near me today, pubs open.. But yeah... Its all permanent and being controlled by Bill Gates/ WEF/ lizard people.

Half a million people a day being vaccinated, number of deaths and cases falling and the link between case rates and deaths a couple of weeks later is no longer there as it was since this time 12 months ago.

But yeah... Permanent restrictions everywhere... Well except that there isn't.

The Nal

The Nal wrote: »

She said "until other countries successfully roll out jabs" and "its very important that we do not relax too quickly" which seems to make sense.

Nothing permanent about that.

Bu that could take 4 or 5 years. That's a long temporary. And she also says 'may transition to'. It's not definite.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

Care to explain why any measures being made permanent would benefit anyone?
How does me wearing a mask help Bill Gates?

It's not my claim. It's Neil Clark's. I actually disagree with him when he says the Western world because the Western world includes Australia and New Zealand where there are practically zero restrictions. But I could see certain countries in the West keeping a few measures in place. Ireland, the UK, Italy, Spain, and France come to mind. Ireland because there's no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan', the UK because SAGE and Public Health England are talking about mask wearing and social distancing measures being in place for years, level 0 in Scotland's roadmap includes mask wearing, and Mark Drakeford, First Minister of Wales, is talking about what he calls 'simple measures' such as social distancing and mask wearing being the 'only restrictions' still in place by the end of the year: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/three-restrictions-mark-drakeford-says-20239664

And I think in countries such as Spain, France and Italy, where mask wearing is mandatory everywhere, because the law will have been in place for close to two years by the end of the year, and because there has been hardly any opposition to it, I think it could stay in place.

Could this be the reason why Neil Calrk thinks they'll be permanent: https://twitter.com/No2Technocracy/status/1380587087263633421

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bu that could take 4 or 5 years. That's a long temporary. And she also says 'may transition to'. It's not definite.

No, it's not certain what will happen next. Restrictions and advice will come and go over the next year or so depending on vaccines, travel, cases, variants, etc.

Now about the definitely certain claims of this conspiracy theory that "all restrictions are permanent"? We've still not had any evidence of permanent restrictions or why any government would want to force such restrictions on their populations.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not my claim. It's Neil Clark's. I actually disagree with him when he says the Western world because the Western world includes Australia and New Zealand where there are practically zero restrictions. But I could see certain countries in the West keeping a few measures in place. Ireland, the UK, Italy, Spain, and France come to mind. Ireland because there's no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan', the UK because SAGE and Public Health England are talking about mask wearing and social distancing measures being in place for years, level 0 in Scotland's roadmap includes mask wearing, and Mark Drakeford, First Minister of Wales, is talking about what he calls 'simple measures' such as social distancing and mask wearing being the 'only restrictions' still in place by the end of the year: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/three-restrictions-mark-drakeford-says-20239664

And I think in countries such as Spain, France and Italy, where mask wearing is mandatory everywhere, because the law will have been in place for close to two years by the end of the year, and because there has been hardly any opposition to it, I think it could stay in place.

Could this be the reason why Neil Calrk thinks they'll be permanent: https://twitter.com/No2Technocracy/status/1380587087263633421

For some reason I just wasted 5 minutes of the day reading that article, still absolutely zero idea as to what it is that Bill Gates is planning to do to us all once we are all wearing masks permanently?

Also, the claim at the start of the article about there being no date for the relaxation of social distancing etc, he might want to check the UK government website for details of their plans:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021-summary#step-4---not-before-21-june

And if Bill Gates is planning to take over the world by enforcement of mask wearing, then why is Australia exempt from this plan?

robinph

robinph wrote: »

No, it's not certain what will happen next. Restrictions and advice will come and go over the next year or so depending on vaccines, travel, cases, variants, etc.

Now about the definitely certain claims of this conspiracy theory that "all restrictions are permanent"? We've still not had any evidence of permanent restrictions or why any government would want to force such restrictions on their populations.

But if it's potential variants then unless the virus peters out, or becomes no more harmful than a cold, then all restrictions can't be lifted. We keep hearing talk of 'a semblance of normality' and 'a degree of normality'. Mark Drakeford thinks social distancing is 'a simple measure'. It clearly isn't. Lots of businesses can't operate properly because of social distancing. Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE says it's a low level restriction.

There is evidence, but there's no proof. In Israel masks are still mandatory everywhere (the outdoor requirement might be lifted soon, but there's no justification really for any mask wearing there). Gibraltar has vaccinated almost its entire population and masks still haven't been fully scrapped. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that certain measures will be permanent, such as mask wearing in shops and on public transport.

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But if it's potential variants then unless the virus peters out, or becomes no more harmful than a cold, then all restrictions can't be lifted. We keep hearing talk of 'a semblance of normality' and 'a degree of normality'. Mark Drakeford thinks social distancing is 'a simple measure'. It clearly isn't. Lots of businesses can't operate properly because of social distancing. Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE says it's a low level restriction.

There is evidence, but there's no proof. In Israel masks are still mandatory everywhere (the outdoor requirement might be lifted soon, but there's no justification really for any mask wearing there). Gibraltar has vaccinated almost its entire population and masks still haven't been fully scrapped. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that certain measures will be permanent, such as mask wearing in shops and on public transport.

OK so everything you are saying clearly shows limits in place to stop the spread of the virus. Once we have it under control to a safe degree limits are removed... And are currently being removed slowly and safely. So again.. What's going to be permanent? You have not show one thing that will be or why.

PintOfView

Deleted User wrote: »

Still have to wear a mask, socially distance, test yourself twice a week, stand outside a supermarket in the pouring rain to do a bit of shopping, will soon have to produce your vaccine passport, can't leave the country. . . . .
. . . .
Contrast that with New South Wales: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-24/nsw-covid-19-restrictions-easing-from-monday-march-29/100025548

But can you not see you're comparing two situations that are different?
Australia quarantined incoming travellers, and locked down hard whenever they got an outbreak.
So Australia now have very low risk as the virus has been eliminated in most parts of the country.

Can you not see that comparing Australia to Ireland, or the UK, is meaningless?

It's like saying "Why are people worried about snake bites in Australia, in Ireland can walk anywhere without any problem?"

EyesClosed

EyesClosed wrote: »

OK so everything you are saying clearly shows limits in place to stop the spread of the virus. Once we have it under control to a safe degree limits are removed... And are currently being removed slowly and safely. So again.. What's going to be permanent? You have not show one thing that will be or why.

Yes, but those restrictions could remain in place to stop the potential spread of potential variants of the virus. If it's potential variants then I don't know how life can ever go fully back to normal. If it was 'once we reach herd immunity normal life resumes' then people would know when normal life would resume. The UK may already have reached herd immunity: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-set-to-reach-herd-immunity-milestone-within-days-say-scientists-12269405

And there is evidence that mask wearing will persist, at least in certain situations. Evidence in Ireland is that there is no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan'. Not proof, but evidence. Evidence in Gibraltar is that masks were not scrapped on public transport and in shops when the mask measures were eased there a couple of days ago. Maybe they will be soon. Evidence in Scotland is that mask wearing is a feature of level 0 in the roadmap there.

I don't agree that all measures will be permanent, but I could see certain measures persisting for a long time (Dr Ramsay says years). The Emergency Powers Act of 1939 wasn't repealed until 1959, for example. Income tax was supposed to be temporary and it turned out not to be. But there is also evidence that the measures won't be in the form of Australia and New Zealand (although masks are still required on public transport in New Zealand even though there's no covid there).

runawaybishop

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there is evidence that mask wearing will persist, at least in certain situations. Evidence in Ireland is that there is no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan'. Not proof, but evidence.

You are competing quite hard for dumbest thing said in this thread, good job.

How do you not pull a muscle with all that reaching? It's pretty impressive tbh

PintOfView

PintOfView wrote: »

But can you not see you're comparing two situations that are different?
Australia quarantined incoming travellers, and locked down hard whenever they got an outbreak.
So Australia now have very low risk as the virus has been eliminated in most parts of the country.

Can you not see that comparing Australia to Ireland, or the UK, is meaningless?

It's like saying "Why are people worried about snake bites in Australia, in Ireland can walk anywhere without any problem?"

I agree that the comparison is unfair, but I highlighted what's going in New South Wales only to show the difference between what is being described as freedom in the UK and what freedom looks like in New South Wales. I understand why people are delighted to be able to go to the pub (albeit outdoors) and do certain other things after being locked down for so long, but even on the 21st of June there's no guarantee that mask wearing will be a thing of the past, or that social distancing won't remain in place in some form. There's to be a review soon, but if Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE and SAGE are right masks won't be going anywhere for another few years at least. Or possibly even social distancing.

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, but those restrictions could remain in place to stop the potential spread of potential variants of the virus. If it's potential variants then I don't know how life can ever go fully back to normal. If it was 'once we reach herd immunity normal life resumes' then people would know when normal life would resume. The UK may already have reached herd immunity: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-set-to-reach-herd-immunity-milestone-within-days-say-scientists-12269405

And there is evidence that mask wearing will persist, at least in certain situations. Evidence in Ireland is that there is no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan'. Not proof, but evidence. Evidence in Gibraltar is that masks were not scrapped on public transport and in shops when the mask measures were eased there a couple of days ago. Maybe they will be soon. Evidence in Scotland is that mask wearing is a feature of level 0 in the roadmap there.

I don't agree that all measures will be permanent, but I could see certain measures persisting for a long time (Dr Ramsay says years). The Emergency Powers Act of 1939 wasn't repealed until 1959, for example. Income tax was supposed to be temporary and it turned out not to be. But there is also evidence that the measures won't be in the form of Australia and New Zealand (although masks are still required on public transport in New Zealand even though there's no covid there).

OK so what you have is... Mask wearing might be permanent in a few situations.... That's a far cry from everything is permanent forever isn't it?
So basically there is no conspiracy then?

Also mask wearing should stay in certain situations... I don't miss getting on a packed bus or train with someone sitting beside me sneezing and coughing... A mask in that context would be brilliant.. How is that bad? Or how does it help the conspiracy?

EyesClosed

EyesClosed wrote: »

OK so what you have is... Mask wearing might be permanent in a few situations.... That's a far cry from everything is permanent forever isn't it?
So basically there is no conspiracy then?

Also mask wearing should stay in certain situations... I don't miss getting on a packed bus or train with someone sitting beside me sneezing and coughing... A mask in that context would be brilliant.. How is that bad? Or how does it help the conspiracy?

Which would be a permanent measure.

I never said all measures would be permanent. brianhere did.

Voluntary mask wearing would be fine.

EyesClosed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which would be a permanent measure.

I never said all measures would be permanent. brianhere did.

Voluntary mask wearing would be fine.

OK so there is no conspiracy here then?
Brianhere was clearly wrong as nothing bar maybe voluntary masks which you agree is a good thing may be permanent.

PintOfView

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree that the comparison is unfair, but I highlighted what's going in New South Wales only to show the difference between what is being described as freedom in the UK and what freedom looks like in New South Wales. I understand why people are delighted to be able to go to the pub (albeit outdoors) and do certain other things after being locked down for so long, but even on the 21st of June there's no guarantee that mask wearing will be a thing of the past, or that social distancing won't remain in place in some form. There's to be a review soon, but if Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE and SAGE are right masks won't be going anywhere for another few years at least. Or possibly even social distancing.

The comparison is not unfair, it's simply invalid.

You say that on 21st June there is no guarantee that mask wearing will be a thing of the past!
How can anyone guarantee that?
Mask are not just some whim of the government. They're a response to a threat.
If the threat recedes and goes away, so too will the need for masks.

How is that so difficult to understand, getting rid of masks requires the virus to be no longer a threat!

On a wet day in February, if it stopped raining for an hour, would you leave your rain coat at home?

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still have to wear a mask, socially distance, test yourself twice a week, stand outside a supermarket in the pouring rain to do a bit of shopping, will soon have to produce your vaccine passport, can't leave the country. All in spite of there being 3 deaths within 28 days of a positive PCR test in the whole of England yesterday (https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1381326211285188616?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) and more than half the population living in areas with virtually no cases: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9458487/More-HALF-Englands-population-areas-virtually-no-new-Covid-cases.html

And Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England is predicting low level measures such as social distancing (how social distancing is a low level restriction for businesses, I do not know) and mask wearing will continue for years.

Contrast that with New South Wales: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-24/nsw-covid-19-restrictions-easing-from-monday-march-29/100025548

I live in England, I don't have to get tested twice a week and I can't remember the last time I queued to get into any shop. I finish work at three today and I'm off to the pub for a pint!