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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #3662
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,550 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But if it's potential variants then unless the virus peters out, or becomes no more harmful than a cold, then all restrictions can't be lifted. We keep hearing talk of 'a semblance of normality' and 'a degree of normality'. Mark Drakeford thinks social distancing is 'a simple measure'. It clearly isn't. Lots of businesses can't operate properly because of social distancing. Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE says it's a low level restriction.

    There is evidence, but there's no proof. In Israel masks are still mandatory everywhere (the outdoor requirement might be lifted soon, but there's no justification really for any mask wearing there). Gibraltar has vaccinated almost its entire population and masks still haven't been fully scrapped. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that certain measures will be permanent, such as mask wearing in shops and on public transport.

    Gibralter has a population of about 60k, Around 14k Spanish people enter Gib for employment every day so yes there is still a need for some mask wearing there. Saying that the Gibraltan authorities have also offered the vaccine to any Spanish people employed there and many have taken them up on the offer.


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    #3663
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    The comparison is not unfair, it's simply invalid.

    You say that on 21st June there is no guarantee that mask wearing will be a thing of the past!
    How can anyone guarantee that?
    Mask are not just some whim of the government. They're a response to a threat.
    If the threat recedes and goes away, so too will the need for masks.

    How is that so difficult to understand, getting rid of masks requires the virus to be no longer a threat!

    On a wet day in February, if it stopped raining for an hour, would you leave your rain coat at home?

    It's no longer a threat in New Zealand and masks are still mandatory on public transport and on planes.

    Would you agree that it's no longer a threat in the UK, or is very close to no longer being a threat? The UK must surely be close to herd immunity (according to some scientists it has already reached herd immunity).

    And then it depends on how a threat is defined. Is it case numbers? Do they matter if the population is protected through herd immunity?


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    #3664
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    I'm not sure you actually know what it is you are arguing about.

    You don't seem to actually believe that restrictions are permanent, as you keep using places where restrictions have been lifted as examples. But then somehow try to use those examples of restrictions being lifted as proof of restrictions being permanent.
    Then you use suggestions that Bill Gates is directing the restrictions from his lair inside a volcano as proof of a conspiracy, but offer no evidence of a conspiracy and then you say that you don't belive that what someone else was saying about Bill Gates and his lair in a volcano.



    What is the conspiracy?
    Why?


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    #3665
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I live in England, I don't have to get tested twice a week and I can't remember the last time I queued to get into any shop. I finish work at three today and I'm off to the pub for a pint!

    I was thinking more queues like this: https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19226118.primark-huge-queues-brighton-lockdown-eased/

    In the bad weather it's very unpleasant. In Sweden a person can just walk into a shopping centre or a supermarket.

    People will be asked to get tested twice a week soon: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56632084

    It's voluntary for now.

    Enjoy the pint!


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    #3666
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    I'm not sure you actually know what it is you are arguing about.

    You don't seem to actually believe that restrictions are permanent, as you keep using places where restrictions have been lifted as examples. But then somehow try to use those examples of restrictions being lifted as proof of restrictions being permanent.
    Then you use suggestions that Bill Gates is directing the restrictions from his lair inside a volcano as proof of a conspiracy, but offer no evidence of a conspiracy and then you say that you don't belive that what someone else was saying about Bill Gates and his lair in a volcano.



    What is the conspiracy?
    Why?

    I don't agree with Neil Clark when he says the entire Western world. But I could see certain measures being kept in place in countries in the West (and outside of the West). I also don't agree with brianhere that all measures will be permanent. But there is evidence that some will be in some countries. I don't know why you keep mentioning Bill Gates. I haven't mentioned him once. He was mentioned in Neil Clark's article.


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    #3667
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's no longer a threat in New Zealand and masks are still mandatory on public transport and on planes.

    Would you agree that it's no longer a threat in the UK, or is very close to no longer being a threat? The UK must surely be close to herd immunity (according to some scientists it has already reached herd immunity).

    And then it depends on how a threat is defined. Is it case numbers? Do they matter if the population is protected through herd immunity?

    The UK have made good progress in vaccinating everyone, and possibly may be approaching herd immunity (I don't have the numbers, nor the time to look them up now)

    However, if they are cautious in opening up I could understand that.
    Do you think it would be prudent to jump back to complete normality right now?

    If I was responsible for it I would be threading carefully, opening up in stages, and monitoring what happened at each stage before moving to the next.
    It's hardly possible to say with certainty what's going to happen in the next month, or two, and decisions can only be taken once results are seen.


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    #3668
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,785 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I live in England, I don't have to get tested twice a week and I can't remember the last time I queued to get into any shop. I finish work at three today and I'm off to the pub for a pint!

    Post a pic please just to complete our misery your happiness.


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    #3669
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    The UK have made good progress in vaccinating everyone, and possibly may be approaching herd immunity (I don't have the numbers, nor the time to look them up now)

    However, if they are cautious in opening up I could understand that.
    Do you think it would be prudent to jump back to complete normality right now?

    If I was responsible for it I would be threading carefully, opening up in stages, and monitoring what happened at each stage before moving to the next.
    It's hardly possible to say with certainty what's going to happen in the next month, or two, and decisions can only be taken once results are seen.

    Do you think masks should be mandatory on planes and on public transport in New Zealand?

    According to a UCL model, Britain achieved it today: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-ucl-b928417.html

    That claim has been disputed, but Britain must be extremely close to herd immunity even if the model is wrong.

    I think once herd immunity is reached then normal life should resume. Otherwise normal life will never resume because there will always be a potential variant out there. Measures can always be reintroduced briefly if necessary.


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    #3670
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Do you think masks should be mandatory on planes and on public transport in New Zealand?

    According to a UCL model, Britain achieved it today: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-ucl-b928417.html

    That claim has been disputed, but Britain must be extremely close to herd immunity even if the model is wrong.

    I think once herd immunity is reached then normal life should resume. Otherwise normal life will never resume because there will always be a potential variant out there. Measures can always be reintroduced briefly if necessary.

    OK so still on just masks... Which you agree are a good thing.
    So what's the conspiracy?


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    #3671
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do you think masks should be mandatory on planes and on public transport in New Zealand?

    It's clear you think there is an ulterior motive behind masks, what is it?

    If you can't answer, then it's just a bunch of mask rules that you personally don't understand or understand. No conspiracy.


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    #3672
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Masks should have always been a thing on public transport. Especially in places like Dublin.

    I couldn't count the amount of ram packed busses I was on growing up with people standing against each other, the whole thing fogged up . Disgusting disease factories full of disgusting people coughing and spluttering all over each other. I shudder to think how many viruses passed around my family and friends from those of us that got the bus to school.


    Just imagine the amount of viruses passed back and forward every day on the tube in London.


    I fully admit I used to scoff seeing Asian people wearing masks around Dublin. They may well have been doing it because they were coming from a high pollution area that might not be applicable here, but they were dead right to be wearing them on public transport.


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    #3673
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    OK so still on just masks... Which you agree are a good thing.
    So what's the conspiracy?

    I don't really agree they're a good thing or that they should be mandatory, but I'd have no problem with them being voluntary.

    But I don't think they'll be scrapped in a number of countries because they will have been worn for too long and will have become normalised by the time herd immunity is reached. Other measures such as income tax were introduced as temporary measures, but ended up being permanent.

    Is this a possible reason why the WEF is promoting the new smart mask: https://twitter.com/No2Technocracy/status/1380587087263633421


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    #3674
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't agree with Neil Clark when he says the entire Western world. But I could see certain measures being kept in place in countries in the West (and outside of the West). I also don't agree with brianhere that all measures will be permanent. But there is evidence that some will be in some countries. I don't know why you keep mentioning Bill Gates. I haven't mentioned him once. He was mentioned in Neil Clark's article.

    So you don't believe there is a conspiracy and you think that some measures will come and go as required depending on local situations at the time?

    So what are you doing reading conspiracy theory websites and posting on here in support of conspiracy theories that you don't subscribe to?

    Only reason for mentioning Bill Gates is his name is easier to type and remember than some of the other alleged evil masterminds of various conspiracy theories.

    Why are you posting in support of a theory that you don't believe in?


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    #3675
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Masks should have always been a thing on public transport. Especially in places like Dublin.

    I couldn't count the amount of ram packed busses I was on growing up with people standing against each other, the whole thing fogged up . Disgusting disease factories full of disgusting people coughing and spluttering all over each other. I shudder to think how many viruses passed around my family and friends from those of us that got the bus to school.


    Just imagine the amount of viruses passed back and forward every day on the tube in London.


    I fully admit I used to scoff seeing Asian people wearing masks around Dublin. They may well have been doing it because they were coming from a high pollution area that might not be applicable here, but they were dead right to be wearing them on public transport.

    Voluntary or mandatory?


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    #3676
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is this a possible reason why the WEF is promoting the new smart mask: https://twitter.com/No2Technocracy/status/1380587087263633421
    So you're worried that the conspiracy is that they plan to make masks permanent so they can introduce "smart masks" to monitor everyone?

    You understand how ridiculous this sounds, right?


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    #3677
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Masks should have always been a thing on public transport. Especially in places like Dublin.

    I couldn't count the amount of ram packed busses I was on growing up with people standing against each other,
    .

    I had some lad sneeze on the back of my neck before..... didn't even try to cover it.... The feel of warm snot was delightful


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    #3678
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Governments are making people wear masks, during a pandemic. Something fishy is going on.

    /every Covid thread on this forum


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    #3679
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Voluntary or mandatory?

    I'd have no issue with it being mandatory. There's lots of rules for public transport. You can't just get on naked.

    If you don't want to wear a mask on a bus you're free to not use it, the same as you're free to not use it if you don't want to follow any of their other rules.


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    #3680
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    King Mob wrote: »
    So you're worried that the conspiracy is that they plan to make masks permanent so they can introduce "smart masks" to monitor everyone?

    You understand how ridiculous this sounds, right?

    There's literally nothing they won't turn in to some sort of conspiracy. It must get so tiring living your life that way.

    The worst thing is there are so many people in the world that are suffering from any number of issues (anything from illness to poverty and everything in between)that need others to look out for them and help them. All this effort that is spent by these people to find and perpetuate conspiracies in everything in the world could actually be used to help people.


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    #3681
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Governments are making people wear masks, during a pandemic. Something fishy is going on.

    /every Covid thread on this forum

    It's more that there is no evidence in Western countries that have introduced masks that they will be got rid of. No indication, no date, they're hardly ever mentioned. Covid doesn't exist in New Zealand and yet masks are mandatory on public transport and on planes there for some reason. I don't know why when New South Wales made them voluntary on public transport after they were briefly mandatory.


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    #3682
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's more that there is no evidence in Western countries that have introduced masks that they will be got rid of. No indication, no date, they're hardly ever mentioned. Covid doesn't exist in New Zealand and yet masks are mandatory on public transport and on planes there for some reason. I don't know why when New South Wales made them voluntary on public transport after they were briefly mandatory.

    Listen... What's the conspiracy here?


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    #3683
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's more that there is no evidence in Western countries that have introduced masks that they will be got rid of. No indication, no date, they're hardly ever mentioned. Covid doesn't exist in New Zealand and yet masks are mandatory on public transport and on planes there for some reason. I don't know why when New South Wales made them voluntary on public transport after they were briefly mandatory.

    Ok. You believe masks are going to be permanent.
    Why aren't you able to explain the motivation behind this conspiracy?
    Why do you keep dodging and running away from that question?


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    #3684
    buzzerxx
    Registered Users Posts: 913 ✭✭✭buzzerxx


    The Nuremberg code was put in place
    so people would not be FORCED or COERCED
    into medical treatments
    ever again


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    #3685
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    buzzerxx wrote: »
    The Nuremberg code was put in place
    so people would not be FORCED or COERCED
    into medical treatments
    ever again

    What has any of this to do with covid measures?
    What's going to be permanent and why?


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    #3686
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,785 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    buzzerxx wrote: »
    The Nuremberg code was put in place
    so people would not be FORCED or COERCED
    into medical treatments
    ever again

    Nope. More Facebook research.

    It had nothing to do with vaccines.


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    #3687
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok. You believe masks are going to be permanent.
    Why aren't you able to explain the motivation behind this conspiracy?
    Why do you keep dodging and running away from that question?

    I can't explain why they are mandatory in New Zealand on planes and on public transport even though covid doesn't exist there.


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    #3688
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I can't explain why they are mandatory in New Zealand on planes and on public transport even though covid doesn't exist there.

    So you don't have a conspiracy here at all? Just that different countries have different laws... Which is shocking I know.


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    #3689
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Covid doesn't exist in New Zealand and yet masks are mandatory on public transport and on planes there for some reason.

    There are 100 active cases of Covid in NZ and it's at alert level 1 which means masks are mandatory on public transport and flights

    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus

    Again, we're into your "perpetually confused about Covid rules" territory. Either you have difficulty understanding basic concepts, or it's all an act. Some people with extreme beliefs simply can't accept common sense information that threaten those beliefs, so they carry out this bizarre act of floundering around "not getting anything" in order to preserve them. It goes without saying it's very common on this forum.


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    #3690
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can't explain why they are mandatory in New Zealand on planes and on public transport even though covid doesn't exist there.
    That's not what I asked you though.
    You keep deliberately avoiding the question.

    I asked what the motivation would be for a conspiracy to force mask wearing to be permanent.
    You can't suggest anything because it doesn't make any sense.
    You had to dream up the idea of "smart masks" in desperation, but that idea was so painfully silly, you've already abandoned it.

    So why are you avoiding this question?
    What do you tell yourself when you do it?


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    #3691
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    buzzerxx wrote: »
    The Nuremberg code was put in place
    so people would not be FORCED or COERCED
    into medical treatments
    ever again
    Who's being forced or coerced into medical treatments?

    Why are they being forced or coerced?
    Who by?

    Again, seems like you're just spewing shallow sound bites without any substance rather than address any questions.


This discussion has been closed.
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