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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #4022
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    King Mob wrote: »
    If you produce a crank, people with point that out.
    You have been using cranks like Jordan Peterson and Jim Corr.

    You are also still ignoring things.

    Why?

    Well all the sources I use are considered cranks by you regardless of educational credentials or expertise as they do not the same commonly held views by their fellow academics.

    I've answered many of your questions at this point you just don't like the answers I give so therefore you think that their not answers. Sometimes I may not answer your question because I'm not on this website 24/7 and sometimes I may miss something. That's the answer to your question btw before you accuse be of dodging it.


  • Options
    #4023
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    GT89 wrote: »
    The reason why people latch on to experts who deviate and come to different conclusion is because anyone with a different view is constantly asked what experts agree with them in order to try and polarise anyone with a different view to them. The fact is opinions can and do differ and some people have a less popular view of things.

    It's not a popularity contest, people with irrational beliefs aren't interested in the truth, fact, logic or reason, they are only interested in distorting them in any way possible in order to reach that irrational belief.

    Conspiracy theories are a level beyond that, these people can't even detail their irrational belief. It's that vague. That's the insanity we are dealing with here.


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    #4024
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    GT89 wrote: »
    Well all the sources I use are considered cranks by you regardless of educational credentials or expertise as they do not the same commonly held views by their fellow academics.

    I've answered many of your questions at this point you just don't like the answers I give so therefore you think that their not answers. Sometimes I may not answer your question because I'm not on this website 24/7 and sometimes I may miss something. That's the answer to your question btw before you accuse be of dodging it.

    Well you are definitely dodging my question's... As you are very clearly online right now


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    #4025
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    Well you are definitely dodging my question's... As you are very clearly online right now

    Apologies I can only answer one question at a time


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    #4026
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    Can you answer my question please?
    What does Jordan have to do with all covid measures being permanent... Or is it just you deflecting?

    It was an observation I was making


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    #4027
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    It's obvious you don't want to engage in a proper chat... And are trying to derail this thread as you don't believe anything covid related is going to be permanent

    269 pages and still no conspiracy theorists have been able to answer the simple question we've been asking from the start.

    It should be beyond obvious now that they reason for this is that they can't.
    They can't say what measures will be permanent or why.
    This is because such a thing doesn't make sense. It doesn't at all make sense for a conspiracy to make the measure permanent. Conspiracy theorists can't even suggest a possible reason, it's that ridiculous.

    Conspiracy theorists have had 269 pages to show otherwise. Instead we just get weird rants, random tangents, complete lies and dishonesty. And conspiracy theorists know this is what's happening. They've all but admitted it.

    So we can conclude that the conspiracy theory here is false.

    The question now is why conspiracy theorists have been defending and promoting a theory they know is false?
    What's the point of it?


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    #4028
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    GT89 wrote: »
    Well all the sources I use are considered cranks by you regardless of educational credentials or expertise as they do not the same commonly held views by their fellow academics.
    But people with edcational credentials can be cranks. The fact they disagree with people isn't what makes them cranks.
    You don't seem to be able to tell the difference.
    GT89 wrote: »
    I've answered many of your questions at this point you just don't like the answers I give so therefore you think that their not answers. Sometimes I may not answer your question because I'm not on this website 24/7 and sometimes I may miss something. That's the answer to your question btw before you accuse be of dodging it.
    No you haven't. You keep dodging my questions and other points entirely.
    Don't lie. It only makes you look worse.

    For example, most recently, I asked you a two part question. You only partly answered the first half, yet you ignored the second entirely. So your excuse here is clearly false.

    So stop dodging and deflecting and explain the real reason for why you're dodging.
    Grow a spine and be honest for a change.


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    #4029
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    GT89 wrote: »
    It was an observation I was making

    OK you didn't answer my question... Let's try again.
    What has Jordan Peterson got to do with all covid measures being permanent?


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    #4030
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    An expert in one area of a medical discipline is not a credible expert in another just because their opinions suit an argument.

    If you build a house and it falls down, you cant answer the question " did you get a structural engineer to check it while you we planning and building it"

    with

    " the plumber said it was grand"


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    #4031
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    King Mob wrote: »
    Because anti-science beliefs about health topics should be exposed as the dishonest, illogical thinking that it is.

    Why are you avoiding questions? Why have conspiracy theorists done nothing but avoid questions?
    Why are you promoting and defending a conspiracy theory you agree is nonsense?

    And should these anti-scientific predictions be exposed for the nonsense that they are: https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

    "While such predictions have been and continue to be enthusiastically reported by a media eager for sensational headlines, the failures are typically not revisited."

    (The blog will be discredited).

    I don't agree it's nonsense. I don't agree with all of what's being said, but I do believe certain measures will be permanent. And we can see the push towards measures being permanent: https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1382373384646889473

    Michael P Senger, of whom I doubt any of us have ever heard, will no doubt be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist and a loon, and the post will be ignored and/or dismissed.

    If the talk is now that the vaccines aren't enough then that means other measures will have to be persist. The measures are mask wearing and lockdowns, in my opinion. And I believe there will be climate lockdowns. Not for nothing did the World Economic Forum say recently that lockdowns were improving city life.


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    #4032
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And should these anti-scientific prediction.
    Sorry, you've again dodged my questions.
    Why?

    Is it because you can't address them honestly?
    If you ignore this question again, I will assume that this is the answer.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I do believe certain measures will be permanent.
    But you have agreed that you can't explain which ones or why.

    So you have admitted that the conspiracy theory is complete nonsense.
    Why are you still subscribing to it?


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    #4033
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »

    I don't agree it's nonsense.

    You consistently post stuff you are clearly getting from conspiracy sites. And conspiracy sites have no interest the facts, they just attack and distort them to suggest at vague conspiracies they never detail.

    All of which is reproduced and regurgitated by conspiracy theorists on this forum, who attack the facts to hint at conspiracies they never detail.

    The whole thing is a ****-show of disinformation

    Simple to demonstrate - what's the conspiracy? detail it properly.


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    #4034
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You consistently post stuff you are clearly getting from conspiracy sites. And conspiracy sites have no interest the facts, they just attack and distort them to suggest at vague conspiracies they never detail.

    All of which is reproduced and regurgitated by conspiracy theorists on this forum, who attack the facts to hint at conspiracies they never detail.

    The whole thing is a ****-show of disinformation

    Simple to demonstrate - what's the conspiracy? detail it properly.

    You would think people would be wary of believing all these experts after reading about all those predictions that never came to pass. And yet the scientists and doctors who are advising governments on decisions that are ruining societies and economies all over the world are never to be criticised or questioned it seems.

    Why bother with this thread if it annoys you so much?

    It has been detailed for you. You don't find the conspiracy theory coherent, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been detailed for you. If you choose to ignore it and instead write a post about '270 pages in and so far x y z' then that's up to you.


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    #4035
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why bother with this thread if it annoys you so much?
    It's not annoying us. It's just perplexing.

    Why are you defending a nonsense conspiracy theory you know is nonsense to the point you have to lie and avoid points?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It has been detailed for you. You don't find the conspiracy theory coherent, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been detailed for you. If you choose to ignore it and instead write a post about '270 pages in and so far x y z' then that's up to you.
    No it hasn't been at all. You are lying.
    The conspiracy has not once been detailed in any level beyond vague nonsense and contradictory claims.

    You guys keep avoiding questions that would get you to detail your beliefs.
    You have admitted this is what you are doing.


  • Options
    #4036
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It has been detailed for you. You don't find the conspiracy theory coherent, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been detailed for you. If you choose to ignore it and instead write a post about '270 pages in and so far x y z' then that's up to you.
    If you believe the conspiracy has been detailed, point out where people have explained what measures are going to be permeant and why.
    Link to the post.

    Again, if you avoid this question, which you will, it will be an admission that you can't do this.


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    #4037
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And should these anti-scientific predictions be exposed for the nonsense that they are: https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

    "While such predictions have been and continue to be enthusiastically reported by a media eager for sensational headlines, the failures are typically not revisited."

    (The blog will be discredited).

    I don't agree it's nonsense. I don't agree with all of what's being said, but I do believe certain measures will be permanent. And we can see the push towards measures being permanent: https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1382373384646889473

    Michael P Senger, of whom I doubt any of us have ever heard, will no doubt be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist and a loon, and the post will be ignored and/or dismissed.

    If the talk is now that the vaccines aren't enough then that means other measures will have to be persist. The measures are mask wearing and lockdowns, in my opinion. And I believe there will be climate lockdowns. Not for nothing did the World Economic Forum say recently that lockdowns were improving city life.

    Quick! Go back and edit previous posts you made that said there would be no permanent measures!


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    #4038
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And should these anti-scientific predictions be exposed for the nonsense that they are: https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

    "While such predictions have been and continue to be enthusiastically reported by a media eager for sensational headlines, the failures are typically not revisited."

    (The blog will be discredited).

    I don't agree it's nonsense. I don't agree with all of what's being said, but I do believe certain measures will be permanent. And we can see the push towards measures being permanent: https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1382373384646889473

    Michael P Senger, of whom I doubt any of us have ever heard, will no doubt be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist and a loon, and the post will be ignored and/or dismissed.

    If the talk is now that the vaccines aren't enough then that means other measures will have to be persist. The measures are mask wearing and lockdowns, in my opinion. And I believe there will be climate lockdowns. Not for nothing did the World Economic Forum say recently that lockdowns were improving city life.

    For a bit of context, that same Michael P Senger also says "COVID lockdowns aren't science, they're CCP propaganda. See my pinned report for key details."
    So his objectivity, and conclusions, in looking at this have to be questioned
    (possibly a case of politics driving scientific conclusions!)

    See the BBC --> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56713663
    "China's top disease control official has said the efficacy of the country's Covid vaccines is low, in a rare admission of weakness."
    One country that has a reasonable number of people vaccinated, but still have a surge in new covid cases, is Chile.
    One explanation proposed was that they are using the Chinese vaccine, with a lower effectiveness!

    So doesn't it show it's prudent to check things out before assuming they're true!


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    #4039
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You would think people would be wary of believing all these experts after reading about all those predictions that never came to pass. And yet the scientists and doctors who are advising governments on decisions that are ruining societies and economies all over the world are never to be criticised or questioned it seems.

    Why bother with this thread if it annoys you so much?

    It has been detailed for you. You don't find the conspiracy theory coherent, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been detailed for you. If you choose to ignore it and instead write a post about '270 pages in and so far x y z' then that's up to you.

    All of this, as described, is the usual merry dance of deflection.

    I asked a direct question, which you deflected from. I'll ask again, what is the conspiracy? provide the details.

    If you don't have any conspiracy, just admit it.

    If you believe all measures will be permanent, explain and demonstrate why that will be the case.

    "Masks will be permanent in every country because.. "


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    #4040
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It has been detailed for you.

    Where? When? By who?

    Nobody else seems to be aware of the details ever having been laid out about the permanent restrictions, or why there would be permanent restrictions. We've definitely asked for you to tell us what they are before?

    Do you keep forgetting that you didn't actually make such a post?


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    #4041
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    robinph wrote: »
    Where? When? By who?

    Nobody else seems to be aware of the details ever having been laid out about the permanent restrictions, or why there would be permanent restrictions. We've definitely asked for you to tell us what they are before?

    Do you keep forgetting that you didn't actually make such a post?

    Isn't it weird how conspiracy theorists keep claiming stuff has or hasn't been posted, yet when we look back, we keep finding out those claims aren't actually true.

    When they say that they posted something already, they can't seem to point out where.
    When they say they didn't post something, they go very quiet when we're able to post it easily...

    A lot of people seem to think that reality is dependent on what they insist or what to believe is true.


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    #4042
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    robinph wrote: »
    Where? When? By who?

    Nobody else seems to be aware of the details ever having been laid out about the permanent restrictions, or why there would be permanent restrictions. We've definitely asked for you to tell us what they are before?

    Do you keep forgetting that you didn't actually make such a post?

    I know what's going on here. Because some people have presented a conspiracy in the thread, that's "good enough" for some posters

    1. Someone claimed that Communists are using Covid to take over the world shortly
    2. Someone claimed that "Corpo-Fascists" are using Covid to take over the world soon
    3. Several have claimed that Satan is using Covid to take over the world
    4. There were some other conspiracies hinted at

    All are vague
    Questions aren't addressed properly

    We are still at square one. No one has ever given a credible explanation why all measures will be permanent.


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    #4043
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Really amazing how certain posters require huge amounts of evidence to demonstrate how masks work, but they'll accept a vague conspiracy involving bible prophecies and Bill Gates at the drop of a hat, without question.


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    #4044
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Really amazing how certain posters require huge amounts of evidence to demonstrate how masks work, but they'll accept a vague conspiracy involving bible prophecies and Bill Gates at the drop of a hat, without question.
    Well some guy on twitter who claims to have a degree in something said so...


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    #4045
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »
    Well some guy on twitter who claims to have a degree in something said so...

    "I'm uninformed and paranoid of authority, so is this guy, we validate each other's nonsense"


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    #4046
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    "I'm uninformed and paranoid of authority, so is this guy, we validate each other's nonsense"

    Or "I believe everything the government and the media say, and so does this guy"

    Anyway, it's 2023 now, according to Martin: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/taoiseach-says-he-cant-be-definitive-there-wont-be-another-lockdown-next-winter-40318747.html

    "The Taoiseach added that he doesn’t believe this pandemic is going to end “with a big bang” and that the European Commission is looking at ordering vaccines for teenagers and children.

    "This is the next phase so they are ordering millions of more vaccines for 2022 and 2023,” he said,"


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    #4047
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Or "I believe everything the government and the media say, and so does this guy"

    Anyway, it's 2023 now, according to Martin: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/taoiseach-says-he-cant-be-definitive-there-wont-be-another-lockdown-next-winter-40318747.html

    "The Taoiseach added that he doesn’t believe this pandemic is going to end “with a big bang” and that the European Commission is looking at ordering vaccines for teenagers and children.

    "This is the next phase so they are ordering millions of more vaccines for 2022 and 2023,” he said,"

    Do you believe Covid will go away in a big bang? That one day it'll just go away??


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    #4048
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Do you believe Covid will go away in a big bang? That one day it'll just go away??

    It has more or less gone away in England where half the population is living in areas that are covid-free: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9474997/Covid-19-UK-Nearly-half-50s-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-parts-England.html

    And yet, despite its being all but gone from England, Johnson is sowing the seeds for an autumn / lockdown with his talk of the lockdown, not the vaccine, causing the fall in case and death numbers. And Martin won't rule out a winter lockdown: https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/lockdownireland-taoiseachmichealmartin-level5change-restrictions-rte-20398346

    I imagine there will be winter lockdowns all across the world. The World Economic Forum tweeted recently that lockdowns were improving city life: https://spectator.com.au/2021/02/the-world-economic-forum-lockdowns-are-improving-cities-around-the-world/


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    #4049
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It has more or less gone away in England where half the population is living in areas that are covid-free: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9474997/Covid-19-UK-Nearly-half-50s-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-parts-England.html

    **** like this is why I haven't committed to getting the vaccine yet. Still have to wear masks, social distance and they are still looking to lock us down again in the Winter. Everyone one of us in the Country can get it and they'll still lock us down. And we'll be right back here this time next year in lockdowns.


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    #4050
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Honestly now.

    People are losing sight of the FACT that the mortality rate of this virus is between 0.003 to 0.005% for people under 50. Yes, the older you get the more that rate increases. You have been told that social distancing and masks will still be in place long after the summer time when (hopefully) most people in vulnerable groups are vaccinated. We have accepted so much change in our lives that can only be described as tyranny without so much as a whimper.

    If you're more scared of the virus than what governments are doing, there's no hope for us. You're telling the government that all of this is ok. Ok to shut your business, ok to not meet your family, ok not to hug anyone...

    We're fûcked if we continue to be silent.


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    #4051
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Or "I believe everything the government and the media say, and so does this guy"

    Whether someone thinks "satan" is in charge, or that the world is flat, or that we are being sprayed with chemtrails, or that Covid is all a conspiracy - it's the same repeated tropes. The normal people (the "sheeple) blindly trust the government, the "media" are all in on it, and the conspiracy theorists are the only ones "smart" enough to see through these dastardly plots, which they can never detail coherently, or answer questions on, or support with any reason, rationale, logic or evidence

    Once again, what is the conspiracy? you keep hinting something is happening, what is it exactly? why can't you address these questions properly without resorting to dishonesty and evasion?


This discussion has been closed.
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