All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

nannerbenahs

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They haven't. Read my reply above.

Those seeking clarity on all this, and why so much is confusing and contradictory, I suggest you listen to this from about 50 mins where Dr Ivor Cummins begins to speak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiTgxZ9tyQ

King Mob

nannerbenahs wrote: »

Those seeking clarity on all this, and why so much is confusing and contradictory,

I suggest not getting information from random cranks on YouTube and from those who try to avoid questions they can't honestly answer.

nannerbenahs

Just watched the who session of 12.10 with Ryan and co as they tried to squirm their way out of the fact that they had effectively pronounced a 0.14% IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) for Covid 1984.
They tried to suggest that somehow this was based on évolving studies bla bla bla and interestingly tried divert our attention to a consideration that this figure adjusted for AGE of course would be ´´higher´´. Well of course it would be!!
These people are imbeciles, but who is listening to WHO, who is paying attention to anything at this stage?
And it looks as if this thread is dead or comatose at least
apart from a few trusty gatekeepers....

brianhere

Gatekeepers is right, if they are not paid to do this they should be!lol

King Mob

nannerbenahs wrote: »

These people are imbeciles, but who is listening to WHO

So is your doctorate in statistics or virology?
Or are you a medical doctor?

nannerbenahs wrote: »

And it looks as if this thread is dead or comatose at least

Again here's that weird Orwellian doublethink.

"Please explain and substantiate your beliefs" = Censorship and no discussion.

King Mob

brianhere wrote: »

Gatekeepers is right, if they are not paid to do this they should be!lol

Lol.
"Anyone who doesn't believe the conspiracy theory is obviously a paid government agent..."

brianhere

nannerbenahs wrote: »

Those seeking clarity on all this, and why so much is confusing and contradictory, I suggest you listen to this from about 50 mins where Dr Ivor Cummins begins to speak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiTgxZ9tyQ

Yes thats very good nanner alright, I think he comes on maybe about half an hour in. He is clearly a very respected scientist already, with a popular book to his credit and he certainly has called this out as nonsense...

Dohnjoe

nannerbenahs wrote: »

Those seeking clarity on all this, and why so much is confusing and contradictory, I suggest you listen to this from about 50 mins where Dr Ivor Cummins begins to speak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiTgxZ9tyQ

Cummins, an engineer, is a Youtube crank and Covid denier

http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/index.php?title=Cummins-2020-09-08

Dohnjoe

brianhere wrote: »

Yes thats very good nanner alright, I think he comes on maybe about half an hour in. He is clearly a very respected scientist already, with a popular book to his credit and he certainly has called this out as nonsense...

It's pretty hilarious watching those who believes that this is all a ruse for communism/totalitarianism/"New World Order" agreeing with those who believe it's all been prophesied by the bible ("mark of the beast") agreeing with those denying the extent of the virus

Almost like there's a common denominator..

nannerbenahs

brianhere wrote: »

Yes thats very good nanner alright, I think he comes on maybe about half an hour in. He is clearly a very respected scientist already, with a popular book to his credit and he certainly has called this out as nonsense...

Yeah Brian, like the pint of plain´(when it could still be found), Ivor is yer only man in covidated Ireland!!
You probably know his site The Fat Emperor and his brilliant work on cardiac calcium testing, diet etc.
Here are some of his recent data analyses vis a vis Covid that I have looked at. There are some new ones too.
He thankfuly sticks to the science and statistics unlike the official geniuses guiding Ireland´s response. This is why he hasn´t been banned.. They can´t fault him because he is just analysing official statistics, but in a thorough and expert manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0KyWBksWrU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrRijSa8494

King Mob

nannerbenahs wrote: »

They can´t fault him because he is just analysing official statistics, but in a thorough and expert manner.

But what about the experts who also quote the statistics who disagree with him?

Is he just smarter, or are the other experts all part of the conspiracy?

Dohnjoe claims that your expert isn't a medical doctor, but an engineer. Is this true? If so, what medical expertise does he have then?

mikekerry

King Mob wrote: »

But what about the experts who also quote the statistics who disagree with him?

Is he just smarter, or are the other experts all part of the conspiracy?

Dohnjoe claims that your expert isn't a medical doctor, but an engineer. Is this true? If so, what medical expertise does he have then?

You might use a similar analogy for bill gates but that doesn't seem to get in his way.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-coronavirus-interview-vaccines-masks-and-us-leadership-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

King Mob

mikekerry wrote: »

You might use a similar analogy for bill gates but that doesn't seem to get in his way.

What are you talking about? I didn't use an analogy...
Nor is Bill Gates claiming to be a medical expert.

The youtube crank people are currently pointing at seems to only have his supposed expertise to support his claims.

Honestly I think you just wanted to have a swipe at Bill Gates because he's the conspiracy theorists boogeyman de jour.

Dohnjoe

mikekerry wrote: »

You might use a similar analogy for bill gates but that doesn't seem to get in his way.

Bill Gates is not a professional doctor, nor does he claim to be. He is a high profile person with a lot of money who allocates it for a range of philanthropy causes.

These Youtube quacks on the other hand are deliberately misconstruing and distorting information in order to present alternative narratives, which range from "Covid is as dangerous as seasonal flu" to "the powers-that-be are using covid to enslave us" - both of which are false

Dohnjoe

nannerbenahs wrote: »

He thankfuly sticks to the science and statistics

Not very well. I've provided a link to a sharp rebuttal to his claims.

nannerbenahs

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Not very well. I've provided a link to a sharp rebuttal to his claims.

There is a whole new industry of rebutting fact checkers hansomely paid for by the same oligarchs running the pandemic.
But ask yourself who will be checking these fact-checkers?

With regard to my comment earlier yesterday about the growing number of doctors and scientists worldwide calling for a stop to the extreme measures and a new scientific conversation, you might have a look here at the Great Barington Declaration.

https://gbdeclaration.org

Dohnjoe

nannerbenahs wrote: »

There is a whole new industry of rebutting fact checkers hansomely paid for by the same oligarchs running the pandemic.

You are claiming that "oligarchs" are running the pandemic, who exactly and how? what is their motive? and who are they paying to rebutt who?

With regard to my comment earlier yesterday about the growing number of doctors and scientists worldwide calling for a stop to the extreme measures and a new scientific conversation, you might have a look here at the Great Barington Declaration.

https://gbdeclaration.org

Since there are millions of real doctors, physicians, health professionals/practitioners in the world, I somehow doubt that website will make a dent. Also they need to up their signing process, anyone can sign up as a doctor, I just tested it out there.

It mentions "As immunity builds in the population", how is immunity building? people who have had Covid before are catching it again. That's a pretty massive error to make.

Dohnjoe

If 1,000 scientists state X and 10 state Y. The scientific consensus is X. Why is this the only forum I've ever come across where this has to be a) repeatedly explained and b) people constantly and endlessly think Y is the correct answer

brianhere

That's an interesting way of looking at it, you do realise that that declaration that you are referring to, and which condemns this nonsense, is signed by 26,599 Medical practitioners and 9,934 scientists.

King Mob

brianhere wrote: »

That's an interesting way of looking at it, you do realise that that declaration that you are referring to, and which condemns this nonsense, is signed by 26,599 Medical practitioners and 9,934 scientists.

Do you have a source for this claim?

Also if this is accurate, how where that many signatories all verified?
What was to prevent people from signing that petition without actually being a "medical practitioner"?

brianhere

It's all there at the site already posted: https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/ .

brianhere

brianhere wrote: »

It's all there at the site already posted: https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/ .

A quick read of the declaration reveals

"COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza."

That's simply not true. You'd think the doctor from harvard would be aware of that.

Dohnjoe

brianhere wrote: »

That's an interesting way of looking at it, you do realise that that declaration that you are referring to, and which condemns this nonsense, is signed by 26,599 Medical practitioners and 9,934 scientists.

There are an estimated 10 - 15 million doctors in the world. There is a far higher total amount medical practitioners and scientists. So those signees (if legit, remember I "signed up" as a doctor) represent a tiny drop in the ocean. Again demonstrating my point about conspiracy theorists and deniers and their grasp of what consensus actually is.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

A quick read of the declaration reveals

"COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza."

That's simply not true. You'd think the doctor from harvard would be aware of that.

In fairness, and in context, it seems to be referring to children for that specific point. The piece isn't that extreme, it's more a disagreement over lockdowns, and to be honest seems very out of date now considering the recent huge surge, especially in Europe. Even more worrying is about the immunity part - within the last weeks we've seen cases of people who've had Covid contracting it again, which makes that portion of the statement also look redundant.

As for why a poster who believes that Covid-19 is all part of a plan to install Communism across the world (no really) has seized on it, I don't know, but yet again it's very telling how individuals with zany and contradictory beliefs hijack the same source material.

As for the number of "signees", keep in mind there are over 3,000 architects and engineers who maintain 9/11 was an inside job...

King Mob

brianhere wrote: »

It's all there at the site already posted: https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/ .

Cool.
And how did they and you verify these numbers?
The site does not explain how this was done.

What about the majority of doctors, experts and organisations that don't agree with this statement?
Are they all just bad at their jobs?
Are they just part of a massive global conspiracy?

mikekerry

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are an estimated 10 - 15 million doctors in the world. There is a far higher total amount medical practitioners and scientists. So those signees (if legit, remember I "signed up" as a doctor) represent a tiny drop in the ocean. Again demonstrating my point about conspiracy theorists and deniers and their grasp of what consensus actually is.

But the way you are looking is very simplistic and doesn't account for a number of other factors.
Say if there x amount of doctors there are plenty of reasons many of these won't have signed the treaty
1) They may not have heard of it - do you think every practitioners in the world has heard of this?
2) If they agreed with it they still may not sign it as can be seen from what happened a couple of doctors here they get fired for not agreeing with the "party line"
3) They may agree with it but still may not sign it most people are not proactive and just wouldn't be bothered to sign a declaration.
4) And some would disagree with the declaration and not sign so you can't just say that there is x amount of practitioners and only y signed it.
Is there a consensus to to see where all the practitioners agree with these lock downs?
I don't see that anywhere?

nannerbenahs

King Mob wrote: »

Cool.
And how did they and you verify these numbers?
The site does not explain how this was done.

What about the majority of doctors, experts and organisations that don't agree with this statement?
Are they all just bad at their jobs?
Are they just part of a massive global conspiracy?

If someone had predicted the current madness last february, there´s no doubt that person would have been labelled by you as a conspiracy nut.
Who could have imagined even in financial terms for instance that all this destruction of the world economy 28 trillion dollars (that´s an unimaginable 28million million) by the latest IMF estimates, would take place for a virus which had roughly the same impact as a seasonal flu and followed the same gompertz curve as all the others. 2018 actually saw more deaths in the first five months of that year than 2020 in Ireland and Sweden.
By your nonconspiracy logic, it makes perfect sense to destroy the world financially (at least for the 99%) with the cost of each death now climbing towards 19 million euro.
The generosity of our kind political leaders has certainly increase immeasurably. The protocalls for spending on health have been thrown out the window. A child diagnosed with JIA autoimmune disease (1000approx) in Ireland will wait at least a year to see our ONE specialist.
But hey ..at the height of the covid epidemic in Ireland..from our own statistics..19 out of 20 people who died ie..95% were already too old and sick to even be offered ICU, ventillators etc.. That is a fact. There was a very weak flu season in 2019 and many older people had an extension to their lives by not getting one of the usual winter respiratory infections which typically speed up the dying process.
What kind of madness was it to introduce masks AfTER the virus had abated?
I would suggest not madness but a deliberate and clever way to leave no exit strategy. I mean if they had been introduced at the beginning, then people would have wanted them removed after the worst was over....

King Mob

nannerbenahs wrote: »

If someone had predicted the current madness last february, there´s no doubt that person would have been labelled by you as a conspiracy nut.....

Sorry, you seem to have missed my questions. Could you go back and address them please?

They are in the post you quoted in case you've a problem finding them again.

Dohnjoe

mikekerry wrote: »

But the way you are looking is very simplistic and doesn't account for a number of other factors.

There is currently a huge resurgence in cases, and as a result governments are being advised to re-introduce lockdown measures to stop e.g. hospitals and health systems from being overwhelmed

You think now would be a good time to remove lockdown measures like the internet petition suggests?

And if yes, why?

mikekerry

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There is currently a huge resurgence in cases, and as a result governments are being advised to re-introduce lockdown measures to stop e.g. hospitals and health systems from being overwhelmed

You think now would be a good time to remove lockdown measures like the internet petition suggests?

And if yes, why?

Can you address my points first please.
thanks