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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #4352
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    A doctor of philosophy should be listened to on medical matters exactly the same as I (a plumber) should be.

    But it's what she's saying that I'm highlighting, not her profession.


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    #4353
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    But invasive tests required before and after.

    Dr Naomi Wolf's thoughts on such testing: https://twitter.com/naomirwolf/status/1388958570524430352

    This was an event run by the "Events Research Programme" and is a test run to see if it's safe to run events like that.
    Presumably everyone going in had a negative covid test.
    They then have to get tested 5 days later to see if anyone caught covid.

    If everyone is still negative 5 days later it will mean that it's reasonably safe to have such an event, with no masks or social distancing.

    Re Dr Naomi Wolf's thoughts, I think she's got it wrong, and I can see nothing 'dangerous' about this test event.

    And she's a journalist, not a medical doctor.
    Here is the first sentence on her on wikipedia
    "Naomi Rebekah Wolf is an American author and journalist. Since around 2014,
    she has been considered a conspiracy theorist by multiple media sources    "

    Between what she wrote on twitter, and the wikipedia page,
    I would put her firmly into the category of "everything she says need checking"


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    #4354
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Have you ever had a covid test? What's so "invasive" about it? FFS it's a swab in your throat and nose not a fist up your arse :rolleyes:

    I have. I found it painful because of how far it goes up the nose. I've never had it in the throat. I imagine that would be less painful. It would be very difficult to arrange a night out if testing is a requirement for bars, restaurants and clubs from now on. You couldn't arrange to meet people in case someone tested positive.


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    #4355
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 15,155 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I have. I found it painful because of how far it goes up the nose. I've never had it in the throat. I imagine that would be less painful. It would be very difficult to arrange a night out if testing is a requirement for bars, restaurants and clubs from now on. You couldn't arrange to meet people in case someone tested positive.



    Will you take a vaccine when it's your turn?


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    #4356
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    This was an event run by the "Events Research Programme" and is a test run to see if it's safe to run events like that.
    Presumably everyone going in had a negative covid test.
    They then have to get tested 5 days later to see if anyone caught covid.

    If everyone is still negative 5 days later it will mean that it's reasonably safe to have such an event, with no masks or social distancing.

    Re Dr Naomi Wolf's thoughts, I think she's got it wrong, and I can see nothing 'dangerous' about this test event.

    And she's a journalist, not a medical doctor.
    Here is the first sentence on her on wikipedia
    "Naomi Rebekah Wolf is an American author and journalist. Since around 2014,
    she has been considered a conspiracy theorist by multiple media sources    "

    Between what she wrote on twitter, and the wikipedia page,
    I would put her firmly into the category of "everything she says need checking"

    But how could it not be safe when the UK is no longer in a pandemic and has either reached, or is close to reaching, herd immunity? There was one covid related death reported today in the whole of the UK. And still covid marshals are being recruited, two year covid public information campaigns are being organised, the Government refuses to lift all restrictions, and is talking about masking and some form of social distancing staying in place for what appears to be indefinitely.

    But it also says on Wiki that she denies that she's a conspiracy theorist.


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    #4357
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I have. I found it painful because of how far it goes up the nose. I've never had it in the throat. I imagine that would be less painful. It would be very difficult to arrange a night out if testing is a requirement for bars, restaurants and clubs from now on. You couldn't arrange to meet people in case someone tested positive.

    It's not though! I have been out with friends all weekend, visited several bars and not once been asked for a negative covid test result.


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    #4358
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    I think this comment on an article I just read provides food for thought:

    "... the Western economies are so racked with debt it can never be paid back, no one would agree to the destruction of their hard earned wealth thanks to the carelessness of self serving politicians, so it's a controlled demolition across all countries, to be replaced with a new "greener, more socially just" system where you are reliant on the state, and since all countries do it all at once, it isn't like Germany suffering alone in 1922, or the US in the great depression, or Zimbabwe, it's all of us resetting all at once levelling everything to unity. Except us, we will get less than unity, we will literally have nothing but the very basics to survive, and maybe not even that."

    I've read similar comments on other articles. It would explain why there appears to be hardly any concern about the economy in countries around the world, or about huge levels of debt, job losses, business closures etc.

    Have you got a link to that article?

    Also, I can't see how that would explain anything about the economies around the world.
    There's a virus on the loose. How do you expect different countries to react?
    Look what happened in India, or Brazil. Do you think that's better for the economy?

    What you're saying might make sense if there was no virus, but we still locked down, etc.
    However that's not the case, is it?


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    #4359
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But it's what she's saying that I'm highlighting, not her profession.

    There's no "human right" to go to a nightclub. Or for a nightclub to exist.
    Your human rights are not being impinged by being asked to keep a bit of distance from other people in public.
    She's a long term conspiracy crank. She sees everything as sinister if it can be spun to her needs.


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    #4360
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's not though! I have been out with friends all weekend, visited several bars and not once been asked for a negative covid test result.

    But it will be for those who are unvaccinated once vaccine passports are rolled out. For certain activities (theatre, clubs etc).


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    #4361
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    There's no "human right" to go to a nightclub. Or for a nightclub to exist.
    Your human rights are not being impinged by being asked to keep a bit of distance from other people in public.
    She's a long term conspiracy crank. She sees everything as sinister if it can be spun to her needs.

    But why would there need to be a test event when the UK is no longer in a pandemic and covid appears to be, based on the data, no longer a threat there?


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    #4362
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    . You couldn't arrange to meet people in case someone tested positive.

    Like you shouldn't when people are sick any other time.

    The reason virus' go round and round the population is eejits going to work or meeting people when they're sick.


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    #4363
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But it will be for those who are unvaccinated once vaccine passports are rolled out. For certain activities (theatre, clubs etc).

    I'm haven't had the vaccine yet, no one has asked me for a "vaccine passport" and the idea of them is exactly that....an idea.


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    #4364
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But why would there need to be a test event when the UK is no longer in a pandemic and covid appears to be, based on the data, no longer a threat there?

    There's been numerous test events. They tested stadiums too. What sort of idiots wouldn't test thing and just go straight from 0 - 100%


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    #4365
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    But how could it not be safe when the UK is no longer in a pandemic and has either reached, or is close to reaching, herd immunity? There was one covid related death reported today in the whole of the UK.

    It makes perfect sense to me to test this out before opening the flood gates to concerts all around the place.
    We are dealing with a virus that we are still getting to know,
    and it's simple prudence, and good sense, to proceed cautiously.

    Gortanna wrote: »
    And still covid marshals are being recruited, two year covid public information campaigns are being organised, the Government refuses to lift all restrictions, and is talking about masking and some form of social distancing staying in place for what appears to be indefinitely.

    Re covid marshals, what do you think they're going to do, force people to wear masks when it's no longer necessary?
    And why would they test an event with no masks or social distancing if they intended keeping people in masks indeninitely?


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    #4366
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    Have you got a link to that article?

    Also, I can't see how that would explain anything about the economies around the world.
    There's a virus on the loose. How do you expect different countries to react?
    Look what happened in India, or Brazil. Do you think that's better for the economy?

    What you're saying might make sense if there was no virus, but we still locked down, etc.
    However that's not the case, is it?

    It's a comment on this article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9537949/DAN-WOOTTON-need-lives-back.html

    But it may explain why there's, or appears to be, almost no concern about the economy in (mainly Western) countries.


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    #4367
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But why would there need to be a test event when the UK is no longer in a pandemic and covid appears to be, based on the data, no longer a threat there?

    What do you think the easing of lockdowns are? They are tests, you ease some restrictions off and if cases don't rise then you ease more, it's really not THAT hard to understand!


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    #4368
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    It makes perfect sense to me to test this out before opening the flood gates to concerts all around the place.
    We are dealing with a virus that we are still getting to know,
    and it's simple prudence, and good sense, to proceed cautiously.




    Re covid marshals, what do you think they're going to do, force people to wear masks when it's no longer necessary?
    And why would they test an event with no masks or social distancing if they intended keeping people in masks indeninitely?

    But the country has either hit, or will soon hit, herd immunity. Test concerts or discos make sense in the middle of a pandemic, but the UK is no longer in a pandemic. The only precaution that would be understandable would be around borders and international travel for a while. But domestically the UK should be restriction free if it has reached herd immunity. Would you agree?

    They're (the Government) talking about masks in certain indoor settings. Not all indoor settings. And the covid marshals are being recruited to ensure compliance with measures. So there are going to be measures even though the country will have hit herd immunity.


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    #4369
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What do you think the easing of lockdowns are? They are tests, you ease some restrictions off and if cases don't rise then you ease more, it's really not THAT hard to understand!

    I understand, but cases are on the floor and the country, based on the data, has probably hit herd immunity, so why would they rise? They've been on the floor for weeks. The difference between now and pre vaccine is that the vaccine has been rolled out to millions and it looks as though the country has hit herd immunity. So shouldn't normal life resume immediately? But with caution around borders and international travel for a while.


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    #4370
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    There's been numerous test events. They tested stadiums too. What sort of idiots wouldn't test thing and just go straight from 0 - 100%

    Why can't you go to 100% straight away if the country has reached herd immunity?


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    #4371
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    It's a comment on this article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9537949/DAN-WOOTTON-need-lives-back.html

    But it may explain why there's, or appears to be, almost no concern about the economy in (mainly Western) countries.

    I'll have a look through the comments later,
    but the headline on that article doesn't give me a good first impression!
    "DAN WOOTTON: Enough is enough. We've got six weeks to show the government that if they don't give
    us our lives back we're just going to take them anyway"


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    #4372
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    But the country has either hit, or will soon hit, herd immunity.
    Test concerts or discos make sense in the middle of a pandemic, but the UK is no longer in a pandemic.
    The only precaution that would be understandable would be around borders and international travel for a while.
    But domestically the UK should be restriction free if it has reached herd immunity.
    Would you agree?

    Have to go, but just quickly,
    Look what happened in Chile, they thought they had enough people vaccinated,
    and relaxed, and got hit by another wave.
    In that context would you not think it's prudent to proceed with caution?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/covid-chiles-coronavirus-cases-hit-record-levels-despite-vaccine-rollout.html


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    #4373
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PintOfView wrote: »
    Have to go, but just quickly,
    Look what happened in Chile, they thought they had enough people vaccinated,
    and relaxed, and got hit by another wave.
    In that context would you not think it's prudent to proceed with caution?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/covid-chiles-coronavirus-cases-hit-record-levels-despite-vaccine-rollout.html

    I'll have to look into Chile, but I think I read that the effectiveness of the vaccine they used was low. Whereas in the UK the real world evidence shows that the vaccines there are very effective. I'll look into it.


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    #4374
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Why can't you go to 100% straight away if the country has reached herd immunity?

    Who's claiming the country has reached herd immunity?


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    #4375
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Who's claiming the country has reached herd immunity?

    It reached it a few weeks ago according to a UCL model: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-ucl-b928417.html

    But the claim was dismissed by other scientists. But, with the combination of the vaccine rollout and immunity from infection, it must be very close to hitting it if it hasn't already.


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    #4376
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It reached it a few weeks ago according to a UCL model: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-ucl-b928417.html

    But the claim was dismissed by other scientists. But, with a combination of the vaccine rollout and immunity from infection, it must be very close to hitting it if it hasn't already.

    So 1 person claimed the UK could have herd immunity a couple of weeks ago? That's hardly any sort of answer.

    An official source on a claim for any country having herd immunity is about the only metric to go by.


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    #4377
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,545 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I understand, but cases are on the floor and the country, based on the data, has probably hit herd immunity, so why would they rise? They've been on the floor for weeks. The difference between now and pre vaccine is that the vaccine has been rolled out to millions and it looks as though the country has hit herd immunity. So shouldn't normal life resume immediately? But with caution around borders and international travel for a while.

    You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, maybe do some research and try to understand why that doesn't/can't happen.


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    #4378
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    So 1 person claimed the UK could have herd immunity a couple of weeks ago? That's hardly any sort of answer.

    An official source on a claim for any country having herd immunity is about the only metric to go by.

    Not 1 person. Experts from UCL. But if you look at the data then it's clear that the UK will hit it soon, if it hasn't already. 50 million doses of the vaccine have been administered.


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    #4379
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, maybe do some research and try to understand why that doesn't/can't happen.

    Domestic normality. Caution over borders and international travel for a while.

    What would happen if the UK resumed normal life after hitting herd immunity? If it's potential variants then normal life could never resume because there will always be potential variants out there.


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    #4380
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    I think it's rapidly approaching 70% of over 18s in the UK to have received at least 1 dose of a vaccine which is potentially close to where they would expect herd immunity to kick in. But...

    ... Those trial events in Liverpool were not attended by an even spread of the population and maybe only 10-15% at most were vaccinated (based on other conditions or jobs etc) but being mostly younger they won't have the vaccine protection as yet. Their main protection is just that case numbers are so low in the general population and the hope that testing was sufficiently accurate beforehand. That's why they need to run test events like that and track any numbers in a weeks time, look at the way people moved around, see if they can figure out what type of contact in a mostly outdoor environment is actually risky.


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    #4381
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Gortanna wrote: »
    It's in the first post of the thread: control
    But that's not an answer. It's a vague soundbite that you think sounds profound and dramatic.
    When you and your fellow conspiracy theorists are asked to explain or detail how or why or when this control will be installed, you run away and start ignoring points and questions.
    Gortanna wrote: »
    Why are covid marshals being recruited to work until potentially 2023 when the UK is no longer in a pandemic and cases and deaths are on the floor?
    You tell us.
    What's the conspiracy answer?

    Don't link to some other crank on twitter. Just explain in your own words the conclusion your own research has lead you to.


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