All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's just that poster's style of posting always on the offensive.

Lol
"Can you provide a source for your claim?"

Aggressive?

Sensitive bunch I guess?

FutureGuy

"All measures are permanent"

It's clear that they are not. I'm off to Dublin next week. Met my dad yesterday. Went shopping in BT this morning.

Can the thread be closed maybe?

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Lol
"Can you provide a source for your claim?"

Aggressive?

Sensitive bunch I guess?

Well for a start calling someone dishonest and underhanded is what I would consider going on the offensive when they didn't answer your questions.

You constantly berate people with questions and then proceed to attack their character when you don't get any answers such as the example below.

I don't recall calling your posting aggressive but I'm sure you'll able to point out where I did?

Calling me senstitive is fairly ironic when you're the one that seems to be upset about being called out for your posting style.

King Mob wrote: »

If you're not, you're welcome to provide some evidence.
But if you can't provide any evidence, how could we tell you're not lying?

Conspiracy theorists here lie constantly. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that you are also lying.

You have also dodged the other part of my post, which is also dishonest and underhanded which shows that you are comfortable with such things.

So why should anyone believe your claim or take it seriously?

Why should we take it any more seriously than the recycled conspiracy theories we're hearing now?

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Well for a start calling someone dishonest and underhanded is what I would consider going on the offensive when they didn't answer your questions.

You constantly berate people with questions and then proceed to attack their character when you don't get any answers such as the example below.

Well what would you call it when people make false claims they know are false and then begin dodging and ignoring points?

Should I not point this out to spare people from getting offended?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I don't recall calling your posting aggressive but I'm sure you'll able to point out where I did?

Calling me senstitive is fairly ironic when you're the one that seems to be upset about being called out for your posting style.

lol. Which is it?

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Well what would you call it when people make false claims they know are false and then begin dodging and ignoring points?

Should I not point this out to spare people from getting offended?


lol. Which is it?

You don't know them to be false though do you?

His claim was based on a conversation he had with a doctor, you can either believe him or not but claiming it is false is your opinion not fact.

Like I've stated previously you just throw loads of questions at people and then attack them when you don't get any answers.

If I was that poster I would have done the exact same.

He's made his claim and that's that.

Why does he need to satisfy you by answering questions?

You either believe him or you don't it's as simple as that really.

Calling out your posting style does not mean that I'm saying your posting is aggressive.

I don't see how your making that connection tbh.

You could call someone out on their posting style for a number of reasons: condescending, strawmanning, virtue signalling etc.

It's not up to me to justify your assumption that me calling out your posting style means that it is aggressive that's on you not me.

I won't be continuing this conversation further as it will just continue to derail the thread which is not what I want to do.

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

You don't know them to be false though do you?

His claim was based on a conversation he had with a doctor, you can either believe him or not but claiming it is false is your opinion not fact.

What's the difference between a claim that false and a claim that you know you can't support?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Like I've stated previously you just throw loads of questions at people and then attack them when you don't get any answers.

I asked 2.
Are 2 questions too much?

And yes, when people ignore questions, I point that out. If people don't like that, perhaps then they shouldn't ignore questions.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Why does he need to satisfy you by answering questions?

Well generally discussion involves things like questions. If people don't address or acknowledge questions, it's more of a monologue.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

You either believe him or you don't it's as simple as that really.

I don't. And I stated as much. Am I not allowed to state that I don't believe a claim that's unverifiable?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Calling out your posting style does not mean that I'm saying your aggressive.

Ok. So which post were you referring to as aggressive?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I won't be continuing this conversation further as it will just continue to derail the thread which is not what I want to do.

Lol. "I've had my rant, I don't want to deal with and points against it."

Since you want to get the thread back on topic, maybe we can start by pointing out which measures are going to be permanent and why.

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Since you want to get the thread back on topic, maybe we can start by pointing out which measures are going to be permanent and why.

Covid 19 vaccines.

Why - because they'll create billions of euros of revenues for the manufacturers of the vaccines every year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will “likely” need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated. His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1.

Bourla said it’s possible people will need to get vaccinated against the coronavirus annually.

“A likely scenario is that there will be likely a need for a third dose, somewhere between six and 12 months and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination, but all of that needs to be confirmed. And again, the variants will play a key role,” he told CNBC’s Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health."

https://www.ft.com/content/b147be1d-fb56-4018-9bfa-677cddf08c61

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/moderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fhealth-pharma%2Fmoderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/19/health/covid-vaccine-booster-anthony-fauci/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-begins-booster-shot-trial-7-different-covid-19-vaccines-2021-05-19/

EyesClosed

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Covid 19 vaccines.

Why - because they'll create billions of euros of revenues for the manufacturers of the vaccines every year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will “likely” need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated. His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1.

Bourla said it’s possible people will need to get vaccinated against the coronavirus annually.

“A likely scenario is that there will be likely a need for a third dose, somewhere between six and 12 months and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination, but all of that needs to be confirmed. And again, the variants will play a key role,” he told CNBC’s Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health."

https://www.ft.com/content/b147be1d-fb56-4018-9bfa-677cddf08c61

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/moderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fhealth-pharma%2Fmoderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/19/health/covid-vaccine-booster-anthony-fauci/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-begins-booster-shot-trial-7-different-covid-19-vaccines-2021-05-19/

Wait a second... You think the solution to the pandemic is gonna be permanent?
I'd bloody well hope so.

Fighting Tao

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Covid 19 vaccines.

Why - because they'll create billions of euros of revenues for the manufacturers of the vaccines every year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will “likely” need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated. His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1.

Bourla said it’s possible people will need to get vaccinated against the coronavirus annually.

“A likely scenario is that there will be likely a need for a third dose, somewhere between six and 12 months and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination, but all of that needs to be confirmed. And again, the variants will play a key role,” he told CNBC’s Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health."

https://www.ft.com/content/b147be1d-fb56-4018-9bfa-677cddf08c61

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/moderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fhealth-pharma%2Fmoderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/19/health/covid-vaccine-booster-anthony-fauci/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-begins-booster-shot-trial-7-different-covid-19-vaccines-2021-05-19/

Vaccines aren't mandatory. Therefore, the only permanency is that they are available, but no one is forcing you to get a vaccine.

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Covid 19 vaccines.

Why - because they'll create billions of euros of revenues for the manufacturers of the vaccines every year.

Ok.
So are you saying that they aren't really needed?

Are you saying that covid 19 was created/manipulated for the express purpose of making the vaccines a necessity?

If the answer is no to either of these, what's the conspiracy?

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Ok.
So are you saying that they aren't really needed?

Are you saying that covid 19 was created/manipulated for the express purpose of making the vaccines a necessity?

If the answer is no to either of these, what's the conspiracy?

I don't think everyone needs to take one for example anyone under the age of 25 but I wouldn't encourage anyone to take or not take one. It's up to each individual person to make their own decision based on their personal circumstances and risk tolerance.

There is no conspircacy you asked me which measures are going to be permanent and I have stated what measures I believe will be permanent.

Would you consider the need to take an annual covid-19 vaccince or booster shot going forward as a permanent measure? Yes or No?

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I don't think everyone needs to take one for example anyone under the age of 25 but I wouldn't encourage anyone to take or not take one. It's up to each individual person to make their own decision based on their personal circumstances and risk tolerance.

Unfortunaltly, the majority of doctors and health organisations disagree with you.
They feel that the majority of people who can get the vaccine should.

Deciding not to because of uneducated opinion or worse, lies on the internet is not a good decision.

Also, what do you mean by "risk tolerance"? Are you claiming that the vaccine is risky?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There is no conspircacy you asked me which measures are going to be permanent and I have stated what measures I believe will be permanent.

Ok. So there's no conspiracy and the conspiracy theorists here are wrong. Cool.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Would you consider the need to take an annual covid-19 vaccince or booster shot going forward as a permanent measure? Yes or No?

Not really as it will not be mandatory.
It will be a permanent measure in the same way the flu vaccine is a permanent measure. Do you believe that the annual flu vaccine is a "permanent measure?"
I also don't think it's a relevant point in this thread, since, as you agree, there's no conspiracy around it.

Dohnjoe

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Covid 19 vaccines.

Why - because they'll create billions of euros of revenues for the manufacturers of the vaccines every year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will “likely” need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated. His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1.

Bourla said it’s possible people will need to get vaccinated against the coronavirus annually.

“A likely scenario is that there will be likely a need for a third dose, somewhere between six and 12 months and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination, but all of that needs to be confirmed. And again, the variants will play a key role,” he told CNBC’s Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health."

https://www.ft.com/content/b147be1d-fb56-4018-9bfa-677cddf08c61

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/moderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fhealth-pharma%2Fmoderna-plans-to-produce-up-to-3bn-covid-19-vaccine-doses-in-2022-1.4551036

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/19/health/covid-vaccine-booster-anthony-fauci/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-begins-booster-shot-trial-7-different-covid-19-vaccines-2021-05-19/

Okay, are these false claims?

astrofool

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He was ill-informed. That wasn't his fault. I worked with him for a number of years and never heard any hyperbole from him. He was a very intelligent and principled man. I never mentioned it again to him as I knew he would be embarrassed to have passed on such wrong information.

Regarding Covid, if you went back over the predictions and pronouncements from a variety of authoritative sources over the past 18 months, no doubt some of them would be mindboggling. It is today, when humanity now knows the truths of Covid-19 having experienced it firsthand, that we should fully accept what agencies like the CDC, EMA, WHO and HSE are telling us.

Reminds me of the economics professor I met in the early 00's who was adamant the Nasdaq was going to drop to 150 (soon), this guy had all the qualifications and indeed data to support his claim but I'm still unsurprised it never happened

I thought he meant 1500, which it did actually dip under, but nope, 150.

LessOutragePlz

King Mob wrote: »

Unfortunaltly, the majority of doctors and health organisations disagree with you.
They feel that the majority of people who can get the vaccine should.

Deciding not to because of uneducated opinion or worse, lies on the internet is not a good decision.

Also, what do you mean by "risk tolerance"? Are you claiming that the vaccine is risky?


Ok. So there's no conspiracy and the conspiracy theorists here are wrong. Cool.


Not really as it will not be mandatory.
It will be a permanent measure in the same way the flu vaccine is a permanent measure. Do you believe that the annual flu vaccine is a "permanent measure?"
I also don't think it's a relevant point in this thread, since, as you agree, there's no conspiracy around it.

The risk tolerance being that if they can tolerate the extremely low risk that they will suffer any serious health issues from contracting covid-19 if they're under 25 and they don't get vaccinated.

I'm not saying it's risky for everyone but some groups are at a greater risk of suffering severe side effects up to an including death from the AstraZeneca vaccine.

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2021/0422/1211516-uk-astrazeneca/

As you stated earlier the discussion isn't really relevant any longer since it does not relate to any conspiracy theory.

King Mob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The risk tolerance being that if they can tolerate the extremely low risk that they will suffer any serious health issues from contracting covid-19 if they're under 25 and they don't get vaccinated.

I'm not saying it's risky for everyone but some groups are at a greater risk of suffering severe side effects up to an including death from the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Sorry, no. This is an example of bad information that is leading you to make a misinformed decision.

The risks of covid 19 far far outweigh the risk of side effects of the vaccines.
The link between blot clots and this one vaccine has not been conclusively established. Even if it were, the risk of these blood clots are very very low. The risk of getting blood clots from covid is much higher.

So, are you saying that the risks of the vaccine outweigh the risks of the virus?
If so, what evidence do you have for this?
Do you believe that there is a conspiracy to cover up the risks?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

As you stated earlier the discussion isn't really relevant any longer since it does not relate to any conspiracy theory.

Yup. There's no conspiracy theory here.
Conspiracy theorists can't point to an example of a measure that will be permanent.

This thread is demonstrating nicely that there's nothing behind the conspiracy claims just like when they were made back in 2009.

You also seem to have missed my question in the last post.
Do you believe that the annual flu vaccine is a "permanent measure"?

LessOutragePlz

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, are these false claims?

It could be argued that they are and aren't.

Unless you know someone with a time machine that can tell us if this will happen next year and in the years that follow.

Dohnjoe

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It could be argued that they are and aren't.

Unless you know someone with a time machine that can tell us if this will happen next year and in the years that follow.

Your theory is predicated on them being false, so if you are uncertain here it doesn't make sense

Covid might be like seasonal flu, we may need boosters, or an annual shot - we don't know yet.

GT89

PintOfView wrote: »

Do you not have an answer to my previous response to you?
see below

We both want to know the truth, and reality, etc. (I presume!),
and I'd be interested in your explanation?

My point was the lifting of mask mandates and social distancing requirements in Florida didn't have a huge effect on the covid figures for the state. Why are you quoting August figures when the measures were lifted in Septemeber. Less deaths in January in Florida after measures were lifted than August before they were lifted. Of course yous don't like the answers I give to your questions so yous will probably demand I answer them again as usual.

GT89

What's the point on posting in this thread when anytime someone answers a question they get accused of not answering it.

Fighting Tao

Maybe it’s more to do with all the other questions that are unanswered.

Himnydownunder

astrofool wrote: »

This is what you said:



Are you backtracking on the every summer remark?

So final lockdown in September till December, Hotels will close again, ending in December/January.

If that doesn't come true, what do you think the reasons will be?

Here’s a little food for thought for you:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0521/1223091-covid-figures-update/

Himnydownunder

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's not worth going back over the thread to find. Vaccines are kicking in, deaths and numbers in ICU are going down, The government is spending billions that it can't keep doing forever, yet we're due permanent restrictions.....

I am not saying anything about permanent restrictions. My only prediction is that there will be at least one more lockdown, not never ending lockdowns. It looks like I should have put money on another lockdown:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0521/1223091-covid-figures-update/

Himnydownunder

astrofool wrote: »

This is what you said:



Are you backtracking on the every summer remark?

So final lockdown in September till December, Hotels will close again, ending in December/January.

If that doesn't come true, what do you think the reasons will be?

It has never been my point that there would be never ending lockdowns. I am basing my predictions about this summer and the coming autumn on what happened last year. I am not saying there will be a lockdown every summer. I am even more certain of another lockdown now.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0521/1223091-covid-figures-update/

I never said there would be lockdowns every summer till the end of time. But thanks for reading that into my posts. Maybe chill out a bit.

Dohnjoe

Himnydownunder wrote: »

It has never been my point that there would be never ending lockdowns. I am basing my predictions about this summer and the coming autumn on what happened last year. I am not saying there will be a lockdown every summer. I am even more certain of another lockdown now.

It's fairly common sense, if the Indian variant becomes too widespread, we might see an extension or even a return of measures.

That bears no relationship to the claims in this conspiracy theory thread that measures will be "permanent" due to some nefarious conspiracy or plot.

astrofool

Himnydownunder wrote: »

It has never been my point that there would be never ending lockdowns. I am basing my predictions about this summer and the coming autumn on what happened last year. I am not saying there will be a lockdown every summer. I am even more certain of another lockdown now.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0521/1223091-covid-figures-update/

I never said there would be lockdowns every summer till the end of time. But thanks for reading that into my posts. Maybe chill out a bit.

You said every summer, implying, well, every summer. It's good that you mis typed when saying that as it sounded like fear mongering.

The current vaccines are about as effective against the Indian variant as they are against the SA, UK(Kent), Brazil variant, there's nothing alarming about it other than newspapers have headlines to fill and health authorities will use it to encourage high vaccine uptake.

astrofool

GT89 wrote: »

My point was the lifting of mask mandates and social distancing requirements in Florida didn't have a huge effect on the covid figures for the state. Why are you quoting August figures when the measures were lifted in Septemeber. Less deaths in January in Florida after measures were lifted than August before they were lifted. Of course yous don't like the answers I give to your questions so yous will probably demand I answer them again as usual.

I'm looking at the Florida graphs and Jan/Feb death count is worse than August/September despite better treatments and vaccine rollouts started by then.

But you seem oddly fixated on Florida.

They've had a horrendous pandemic with a death count per capita higher than many countries worldwide, worse than Spain and just a bit lower than Mexico (again despite a faster vaccine rollout).

They are not an example to learn off or follow.

GT89

astrofool wrote: »

I'm looking at the Florida graphs and Jan/Feb death count is worse than August/September despite better treatments and vaccine rollouts started by then.

But you seem oddly fixated on Florida.

They've had a horrendous pandemic with a death count per capita higher than many countries worldwide, worse than Spain and just a bit lower than Mexico (again despite a faster vaccine rollout).

They are not an example to learn off or follow.

I'm using Florida as an example because things are normal there no masks no social distancing crowds at sporting events life as normal you wouldn't even know there's a p(l)andemic going on there unless you tuned into cnn. We were made to believe in Ireland that if we don't impose draconian restrictions that dead bodies will line the streets and chaos will ensue but Florida proves that isn't the case.

astrofool

GT89 wrote: »

I'm using Florida as an example because things are normal there no masks no social distancing crowds at sporting events life as normal you wouldn't even know there's a p(l)andemic going on there unless you tuned into cnn. We were made to believe in Ireland that if we don't impose draconian restrictions that dead bodies will line the streets and chaos will ensue but Florida proves that isn't the case.

We'd also have 70% (3500) more dead people in Ireland if we had the same death numbers as Florida.

pearcider

astrofool wrote: »

We'd also have 70% (3500) more dead people in Ireland if we had the same death numbers as Florida.

Most of our dead were nursing home residents in the 80+ category. Killed by our HSE who sent covid infected patients from our hospitals into them without testing them first for covid. A scandal of the highest order. But no calls for a public enquiry...I wonder why?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0202/1194446-coronavirus-ireland/

Nursing home residents were the most vulnerable to the virus and also the easiest to protect. But they weren’t. I wonder why. Incompetence? Or worse?