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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #5492
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    BillyBiggs wrote: »
    Do you think we could have years of lockdowns then, because of new strains emerging?

    First lockdown was to deal with the first wave, it dropped heavily, but then everyone relaxed too much and second wave hit, and so on. Now that we are getting into vaccination territory, the waves are weaker, BUT indeed there are more contagious variants (e.g. Delta, up to 60% more transmissible)

    Due to the high level of vaccination I am sure we will hit a point where pretty much everything will return to relative normal (yes some places will still have some masks, measures) But it's still not a certainty, because we don't know if another newer, more virulent strain will emerge, etc.

    The world is reacting to the virus, and at the moment, we seem to be finally getting on top of it (thanks to vaccines). Could it go on for years? there's always the possibility but the current consensus is that it will probably be like seasonal flu

    Conspiracy theorists are detached from all that reality and live in a fantasy world where all this is planned by nefarious entities, the notion that we aren't in control of everything seems to terrify them so they invent all sorts of stories (lies) to explain events around them. Once they get bored of Covid they'll move onto the next thing (they already seem to have got bored with the "Great Reset")


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    #5493
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Once they get bored of Covid they'll move onto the next thing (they already seem to have got bored with the "Great Reset")
    Yea. The whole covid thing really seemed to have scuppered the Great Reset thing.
    That was poised to be the next big boogie man for the year. But then covid wouldn't blow over all the Great Reset stuff didn't see any traction.
    By the time covid does pass, we'll probably here how the Great Reset folks are planning on the next big event to spring their trap...


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    #5494
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    Right so you don't believe all restrictions will be permanent. You now think just masks will be, and because people like them.
    You've moved the goal posts so, instead of as the thread title suggests ALL covid measures being permanent, it's now ONE measure, which MIGHT stay.
    So what's the conspiracy?

    I believe a lot of restrictions will be permanent. Masks, a degree of social distancing (I don't think here will be any nightclubs left, so that won't really be a problem), the vaccine passport, mandatory quarantine, the PCR test requirement to enter the country. But that's just my opinion.


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    #5495
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    First lockdown was to deal with the first wave, it dropped heavily, but then everyone relaxed too much and second wave hit, and so on. Now that we are getting into vaccination territory, the waves are weaker, BUT indeed there are more contagious variants (e.g. Delta, up to 60% more transmissible)

    Due to the high level of vaccination I am sure we will hit a point where pretty much everything will return to relative normal (yes some places will still have some masks, measures) But it's still not a certainty, because we don't know if another newer, more virulent strain will emerge, etc.

    The world is reacting to the virus, and at the moment, we seem to be finally getting on top of it (thanks to vaccines). Could it go on for years? there's always the possibility but the current consensus is that it will probably be like seasonal flu

    Conspiracy theorists are detached from all that reality and live in a fantasy world where all this is planned by nefarious entities, the notion that we aren't in control of everything seems to terrify them so they invent all sorts of stories (lies) to explain events around them. Once they get bored of Covid they'll move onto the next thing (they already seem to have got bored with the "Great Reset")

    Not bored with it. It has been postponed several times, so it's difficult to focus on it. But Glenn Beck has done a number of videos on the Great Reset.


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    #5496
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I believe a lot of restrictions will be permanent. Masks, a degree of social distancing (I don't think here will be any nightclubs left, so that won't really be a problem), the vaccine passport, mandatory quarantine, the PCR test requirement to enter the country. But that's just my opinion.

    OK so nightclubs will never reopen? But just in Ireland?

    Why with the rest of those measure? And why only in Ireland which you have also stated.


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    #5497
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Gortanna wrote: »
    I believe a lot of restrictions will be permanent. Masks, a degree of social distancing (I don't think here will be any nightclubs left, so that won't really be a problem), the vaccine passport, mandatory quarantine, the PCR test requirement to enter the country. But that's just my opinion.

    So will nightclubs be banned then, or do you just think that because the current ones might all go bust nobody will think of opening a new nightclub in order to fullful that demand for late night entertainment from people?

    If nightclubs are banned will no other nighttime econmic activites emerge in their place? The masks are aparently going to be required, but only becuase the population wants them to be told they have to wear them. Will the population not have any say in their nighttime entertaiment?


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    #5498
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    robinph wrote: »
    So will nightclubs be banned then, or do you just think that because the current ones might all go bust nobody will think of opening a new nightclub in order to fullful that demand for late night entertainment from people?

    If nightclubs are banned will no other nighttime econmic activites emerge in their place? The masks are aparently going to be required, but only becuase the population wants them to be told they have to wear them. Will the population not have any say in their nighttime entertaiment?

    Also this is just in Ireland. Irish people won't ever have nightclubs again and will forever wear masks... Just in Ireland.


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    #5499
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    OK so nightclubs will never reopen? But just in Ireland?

    Why with the rest of those measure? And why only in Ireland which you have also stated.

    I mean I don't think there will be any left to reopen. They've been closed for close to two years.

    Because Ireland is unique in the West in having no opposition, in both politics and the media. Proper opposition, I mean, not just a handful of Independent TDs. The CD was put under pressure to scrap masks and is being put under pressure to scrap them on planes and on public transport. In England there has been constant pressure from the Covid Recovery Group and the likes of The Telegraph, the Daily Mail, Talk Radio et al.

    But I could be completely wrong. It's just my opinion. I just don't see how the restrictions I mentioned ever go.


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    #5500
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    Also this is just in Ireland. Irish people won't ever have nightclubs again and will forever wear masks... Just in Ireland.

    Good time too setup some nightclubs along the border.

    Unless the population of NI also decides that their nightclubs must remain closed as well because they are just not into that anymore, wonder if they will request mask laws to remain in place too?


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    #5501
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    So will nightclubs be banned then, or do you just think that because the current ones might all go bust nobody will think of opening a new nightclub in order to fullful that demand for late night entertainment from people?

    If nightclubs are banned will no other nighttime econmic activites emerge in their place? The masks are aparently going to be required, but only becuase the population wants them to be told they have to wear them. Will the population not have any say in their nighttime entertaiment?

    Why would anyone take the chance on opening a nightclub in Ireland? The threat of being ordered to close by the Government would be ever-present.


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    #5502
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Gortanna wrote: »
    I mean I don't think there will be any left to reopen. They've been closed for close to two years.

    So that business declares bankruptcy, the building get sold off, someone else buys it and converts it into a....????

    Nightclub might be a good idea for a new business as there is a young population craving some late night entertainment venues to visit as they haven't been able to for a year and a half.

    Or do you think the young population of Ireland will all be tucked up in bed by 9pm with a mug of horlicks because the idea of other things to do doesn't interest them anymore?


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    #5503
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    So that business declares bankruptcy, the building get sold off, someone else buys it and converts it into a....????

    Nightclub might be a good idea for a new business as there is a young population craving some late night entertainment venues to visit as they haven't been able to for a year and a half.

    Or do you think the young population of Ireland will all be tucked up in bed by 9pm with a mug of horlicks because the idea of other things to do doesn't interest them anymore?

    And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

    I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.


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    #5504
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Gortanna wrote: »
    And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

    I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

    So you don't think that nightclubs will be banned permanently from ever existing again in Ireland then?

    You just think there isn't going to be anyone with the idea of setting up a new business and figuring out how to make it survive temporary shutdowns if needed? Or scrap that business and buy it's assets back again after the debts get written off and just do the same thing again.


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    #5505
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Gortanna wrote: »
    And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

    I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

    Why would the government order all nightclubs to close if Covid isn't a significant threat anymore?


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    #5506
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,641 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Gortanna wrote: »
    Why would anyone take the chance on opening a nightclub in Ireland? The threat of being ordered to close by the Government would be ever-present.

    So, when the first nightclub operates in Ireland without masks, you'll be back here to tell everyone you were wrong, right?


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    #5507
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And the threat of being ordered to close by the Government being ever-present? That wouldn't be a problem?

    I don't doubt that there will be a demand for clubbing among young people.

    What do the government gain from closing night clubs every now and then?
    Do you understand how economics works, and why the government actually needs business to be open?


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    #5508
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    What do the government gain from closing night clubs every now and then?
    Do you understand how economics works, and why the government actually needs business to be open?

    And considering the taxes on alcohol in this country it's a big hole in their finances to fill.


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    #5509
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    So you don't think that nightclubs will be banned permanently from ever existing again in Ireland then?

    You just think there isn't going to be anyone with the idea of setting up a new business and figuring out how to make it survive temporary shutdowns if needed? Or scrap that business and buy it's assets back again after the debts get written off and just do the same thing again.

    How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.


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    #5510
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    astrofool wrote: »
    So, when the first nightclub operates in Ireland without masks, you'll be back here to tell everyone you were wrong, right?

    Absolutely. I want that to be wrong. I just don't see how it will happen, but not that it couldn't happen.


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    #5511
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

    Ahh look at you bringing other countries back into it... Sorry I thought this was Ireland only...


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    #5512
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,966 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Gortanna wrote: »
    How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

    You do realise there is a pandemic right? That's why nightclubs aren't open, that's the only reason.


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    #5513
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Why would the government order all nightclubs to close if Covid isn't a significant threat anymore?

    Covid will be a constant threat because of variants and/or the concern over potential variants. Fauci said a couple of months ago that the end game is a universal vaccine that can cover all variants: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/covid-live-updates-fauci-health-officials-testify-jj-vaccine.html


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    #5514
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You do realise there is a pandemic right? That's why nightclubs aren't open, that's the only reason.

    Did I say otherwise?


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    #5515
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How do you get 'nightclubs will be banned permanently' from what I said? All I'm saying is that I wonder why someone would open a nightclub in Ireland when a precedent for shutting down hospitality venues has now been established in Ireland (and in other countries, but it's more difficult in Ireland in comparison with other countries because of the lack of opposition in Ireland). Imagine someone spends money setting up a nightclub, is open for a day, and then ordered to close because of a new variant or because of a rise in case numbers.

    You stated that you thought various restrictions would be permanent, and then that nightclubs would no longer exist.

    Do you think nightclubs will be banned from ever existing again in Ireland?

    If yes then explain why the government would do that.
    If no then its clearly not permanent then is it so not to t relavent to the topic of this thread which is to try and discover what the line "all restrictions will be permanent" actually means.


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    #5516
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    EyesClosed wrote: »
    Ahh look at you bringing other countries back into it... Sorry I thought this was Ireland only...

    A quick comparison. There's a difference between making a quick comparison and saying that measures possibly being lifted in England means no more restrictions in Ireland.


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    #5517
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    robinph wrote: »
    You stated that you thought various restrictions would be permanent, and then that nightclubs would no longer exist.

    Do you think nightclubs will be banned from ever existing again in Ireland?

    If yes then explain why the government would do that.
    If no then its clearly not permanent then is it so not to t relavent to the topic of this thread which is to try and discover what the line "all restrictions will be permanent" actually means.

    I don't think there will be any around because of how long they have been closed and because I can't imagine people queuing up to open nightclubs when they know they could be ordered to close.

    I never said they would be banned from existing. I just think it would be very difficult for nightclubs to function properly in Ireland. And pubs.


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    #5518
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Covid will be a constant threat because of variants and/or the concern over potential variants. Fauci said a couple of months ago that the end game is a universal vaccine that can cover all variants: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/covid-live-updates-fauci-health-officials-testify-jj-vaccine.html
    So can we discuss the "all restrictions are permanent" happenings in the US now then, or when they get lifted and are therfore clearly not permanent?


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    #5519
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    Gortanna wrote: »
    I don't think there will be any around because of how long they have been closed and because I can't imagine people queuing up to open nightclubs when they know they could be ordered to close.

    I never said they would be banned from existing. I just think it would be very difficult for nightclubs to function properly in Ireland. And pubs.

    But why will Ireland be any different to the UK?


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    #5520
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    A quick comparison. There's a difference between making a quick comparison and saying that measures possibly being lifted in England means no more restrictions in Ireland.

    No there's isn't, why would Ireland keep restrictions when England opens up? In fact how does that work with up north? They are basically all opened up now... So why would we stay closed when the other half of the country is open? There is no logic to anything you fear will happen.


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    #5521
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't think there will be any around because of how long they have been closed and because I can't imagine people queuing up to open nightclubs when they know they could be ordered to close.

    I never said they would be banned from existing. I just think it would be very difficult for nightclubs to function properly in Ireland. And pubs.

    So no conspiracy then, and nothing permanent.

    Just difficult business environment work in, but one that people will happily work around in order to provide the wanted entertainment venues, jobs, tax income for the government and loads of income for whoever sets up a nightclub where others are too scared of the risks.


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