All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

King Mob

Grofus wrote: »

What i claimed was " i heard it said" on a radio news bulletin so I was looking for the podcast.

No what you claimed was that the government and experts were calling the vaccine 100% safe.
You were asked for an example. You claimed to have heard it from an expert you can't remember on a radio show you can't remember and can't quote.

You still cannot provide any quote from any government body or expert or anyone claiming that the vaccine is 100% safe or doesn't have side effects.

Grofus

King Mob wrote: »

No what you claimed was that the government and experts were calling the vaccine 100% safe.
You were asked for an example. You claimed to have heard it from an expert you can't remember on a radio show you can't remember and can't quote.

You still cannot provide any quote from any government body or expert or anyone claiming that the vaccine is 100% safe or doesn't have side effects.

Worried about the toxic shyte coursing through them viens!!!!

King Mob

Grofus wrote: »

Worried about the toxic shyte coursing through them viens!!!!

So now after your previous protests you are again calling the vaccine dangerous.

You keep changing your mind on this. This shows either that your position is not consistent or not honest.

And all of this is a tangent you went on to deflect from the fact that again a conspiracy theorist can't actually explain what measures are going to be permanent and why.

robinph

So have we established any restrictions which are permanent yet then?

Last I saw there was confusion about what the word permanent meant, then running away to make claims about vaccines and numbers from trial data that they don't understand. There are other threads to cover claims about vaccines being real or not, effective or not, part of a conspiracy or not.

So are there any permanent restrictions?

HerrKapitan

Robinph, your writing style and wording are a bit too similar to King Mob. You might want to switch it up a bit in case conspiracy theorists alledge that you are the same person...

robinph

HerrKapitan wrote: »

Robinph, your writing style and wording are a bit too similar to King Mob. You might want to switch it up a bit in case conspiracy theorists alledge that you are the same person...

There are mod tools within boards.ie to show posters using multiple accounts. Report instances of that to the mods if you suspect it and they can look into it if needed.



Now, about the permanent restrictions thing?

Fighting Tao

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

I lost circa 7000 euro in savings potential through being forced off work while watching the cost of the tier of house I would buy rise by up to 30K.

Sorry to hear about your situation. However, you are an individual, not the economy. The economy is still doing well. Thankfully a huge number of people could still work.

'All' and 'Permanent' are poor word choices, especially when talking about the future.

robinph

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

'All' and 'Permanent' are poor word choices, especially when talking about the future.

If we go with "some" and "for a while after covid has disappeared and the world has returned to normal and becuse of some evil plot against the population" then I suspect we'll still be left short on actual answers to the question of what those restrictions actually are.

runawaybishop

Grofus wrote: »

Happy
https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/31/982983455/pfizer-says-covid-19-vaccine-shows-100-efficacy-in-adolescents

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/25/covid-vaccine-moderna-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-teens-plans-to-seek-fda-ok-in-june.html

Efficacy is not safety. No medicine is ever 100% safe and you will not hear experts claim it is.

runawaybishop

Grofus wrote: »

Anyone, in my opinion, that allows an unproven toxic cocktail into their arm to protect them from a 0.2 chance of death, is either stupid, uninformed or easily lead.
Which one are you?

Ah here we go, the real person shines through. Immune to irony I see as well.

What, exactly, do you mean when you refer to an unproven toxic cocktail? Do you realize how stupid that sounds or are you just trying to insult people because you are completely unable to back up your theories?

Cocktail lol, sounds delicious. Like medicine is normally formed of a single ingredient. How is this word relevant?

Toxic? Easily proven so as toxic is a specific medical term, please show the toxic effects of these vaccines. Also while you are at it explain how different vaccines made differently with different delivery mechanisms are all similarly toxic.

Unproven? We have tons of data showing all the vaccines efficacy, it is a proven fact that they protect significantly against hospitalisation and death. What is your proof they are unproven.

Your feelings aren't proof by the way, stick to facts, not the unverifyable nonsense you have been posting.

Finally your assumption that all people are getting vaccinated to protect them from dying is unfounded and, unsurprisingly, wrong. You lack a basic understanding of what vaccines are for, as is evident in your posts. If you are going to foam at the mouth about something at least have a cursory understanding of it first.

runawaybishop

NaFirinne wrote: »

While we are all talking about the Safety of AstraZeneca there this article on "Norway Says Risk Of Dying From AstraZeneca CoviShield Vaccine Higher Than Of COVID-19"


https://greatgameindia.com/norway-risk-dying-astrazeneca-covishield/

wow, who knew.

greatgameindia is a conspiracy site, and that article makes zero references to what it is actually claiming.

Who knew a conspiracy theorist would post links to unverified disreputable conspiracy sites? We all knew mate.

Dohnjoe

Grofus wrote: »

Where did I claim the vaccine is dangerous.

Worried about the toxic shyte coursing through them viens!!!!

Indeed.

And yes I stand by my depopulation claim. 1000s of elderly, frail and dependent people have died. In other words, those that were a burden or cost to society.
If the vaccines are effective how are vaccinated people contracting Covid!!! Surely the point of a vaccine is to be immune

Covid-19 was deliberately created to kill elderly people? by who?

PintOfView

Grofus wrote: »

I still don't see where I claimed the vaccine was dangerous. You claimed I said it was. The heart attack victim might think it is, given that it caused a heart attack though.
Just because I can't prove I heard " 100 % safe" on the radio doesn't make it a lie, just an unsubstantiated claim. However, I have heard it on more than one occasion.

How do you know the vaccine caused the heart attack? Have you ever heard of coincidence?

You might be interested to know that during the Pfizer vaccine trial two people who were vaccinated died!!
Your immediate reaction would likely be to say, see it killed two people!
However you might want to also take into account that four people who got the placebo also died!!
"Two BNT162b2 recipients died (one from arteriosclerosis, one from cardiac arrest),
as did four placebo recipients (two from unknown causes, one from hemorrhagic stroke, and one from myocardial infarction).
No deaths were considered by the investigators to be related to the vaccine or placebo.
No Covid-19–associated deaths were observed. "

And I see you also said the vaccine wasn't effective. How about the following:

The vaccine trial consisted of over 40,000 people being divided into two groups of 20,000 at random.
One group were given the vaccine, the other group got a placebo, and all told to go out and live as normal.
At the end of 100 days the results were the following:

Placebo group: 162 got Symptomatic Covid, 9 got Severe Covid
Vaccine group: 8 got Symptomatic Covid, 1 got Severe Covid

So what do you think, would you still claim that the vaccine doesn't improve outcomes?

You can read about it here URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7745181/"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7745181/[/URL

But this likely doesn't fit into your narrative, so perhaps you'll ignore it,
and continue to just repeat what you see on facebook, and not think for yourself!!

robinph

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Covid-19 was deliberately created to kill elderly people? by who?

I'm sure any conflict with an alternative conspiracy about pharmaceutical companies just being out to keep people alive with various expensive drugs just to fleece us of every last drop of money will be ignored.

Totally fine to simultaneously belive in two conflicting conspiracies.

runawaybishop

PintOfView wrote: »

and not think for yourself!!

Sure we can see that's all they do, look in the last few posts here - an unverified and unreferenced 'article' from a conspiracy site trying to gain pageclicks has been repeated here and then people liking the post and seeing it as some sort of confirmation. Absolutely zero critical thinking. I doubt they even looked past the headline tbh.

Andrewf20

Grofus wrote: »

Well if that's your angle, why don't you prove i didn't hear them.

How would this be even possible?

King Mob

Andrewf20 wrote: »

How would this be even possible?

I don't think he was thinking very rationally when he said that.
Conspiracy theorists often use this "why don't you disprove it!" tactic a lot, especially when they know they can't support their claims.

Andrewf20

Grofus wrote: »

I still don't see where I claimed the vaccine was dangerous. You claimed I said it was. The heart attack victim might think it is, given that it caused a heart attack though.
Just because I can't prove I heard " 100 % safe" on the radio doesn't make it a lie, just an unsubstantiated claim. However, I have heard it on more than one occasion.

When you register to get the vaccine you are notified of the risks (big and small) of the vaccines and the odds of getting ill. I got no indication of anything being covered up.

Correlation vs causation. The guy who got the heart attack 2 hrs after may or may not have got the heart because of the jab. It could be a coincidence or maybe he was already unhealthy or maybe the vaccine did cause it. I know a number of people who got heart attacks with no jabs over the years. What's about the thousands of people who didn't get a heart attack after the jab.

I think the person on a radio claiming they are fully safe is a distraction in the overall argument. If they did say that they may not have meant it as its incorrect but it appears from what we know so far is that vaccines are very safe.

robinph

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Correlation vs causation. The guy who got the heart attack 2 hrs after may or may not have got the heart because of the jab. It could be a coincidence or maybe he was already unhealthy or maybe the vaccine did cause it. I know a number of people who got heart attacks with no jabs over the years. What's about the thousands of people who didn't get a heart attack after the jab.

Playing international football for Denmark causes heart attacks!

The Nal

Andrewf20 wrote: »

What's about the thousands of people who didn't get a heart attack after the jab.

You mean the 3.2 billion people who didnt get a heart attack after it.

astrofool

Grofus wrote: »

And before someone comes on to say "and yet you deny there's a pandemic" look up antibody dependent enhancement which is one of the very real conditions that the silenced Dr's were trying to inform the public about.
Maybe its a fringe belief

So, your post about vaccines being unsafe and scientists being silenced is followed up by a publication, in Nature no less, that doesn't say anything of the sort.

The paper concludes with this:

However, clinical data has not yet fully established a role for ADE in human COVID-19 pathology.

And the paper basically goes:
Here's something that might occur with vaccines
Here's ways to mitigate those effects
Those effects haven't been seen in humans

And your conclusion to reading that was that vaccines don't work? How could you jump to that?

Please, bring us through how your mind made those leaps, did you start off trying to prove vaccines don't work then tried to find papers to back it up (I'm betting this) or read the article first and misunderstand it? (in which case, now you know they do work of course).

The Nal

astrofool wrote: »

did you start off trying to prove vaccines don't work then tried to find papers to back it up (I'm betting this) or read the article first and misunderstand it? (in which case, now you know they do work of course).

A combo of both. "Vaccines dont work", find an article with a headline that looks like it may conclude that, read the headline, ignore the rest of the article, dump the link, run.

Its the garden variety conspiraloon way. Very prevalent on social media where pictures of headlines are posted as opposed to the actual article. Its the main reason we have conspiraloons. And the main reason why none want to debate. Even the famous ones. "I dont talk to MSM fake news" etc. Because their knowledge is as shallow as a worms grave. Theyd be torn apart. All so frantic and superficial. Echo chambers are easier.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

Please, bring us through how your mind made those leaps, did you start off trying to prove vaccines don't work then tried to find papers to back it up (I'm betting this) or read the article first and misunderstand it? (in which case, now you know they do work of course).

Looks like I'll never get the answer as Grofus has ceased to be (for now at least).

moonage

Andrewf20 wrote: »

When you register to get the vaccine you are notified of the risks (big and small) of the vaccines and the odds of getting ill. I got no indication of anything being covered up.

Is it made clear to people about to be vaccinated that the clinical trials won't finish for years and that the medium and long-term safety is unknown?

Has the risk/benefit been properly explained to them? Do healthy young people know that their risk of serious consequences from covid is close to zero, so the benefit of a vaccince to them is close to zero, and the harms are unknown?

Do they really know that they are essentially guinea pigs in a giant experiment?

King Mob

moonage wrote: »

Is it made clear to people about to be vaccinated that the clinical trials won't finish for years and that the medium and long-term safety is unknown?

What medium and long term effects do you believe are likely from any of the vaccines?
Which vaccines have any side effects that only appear years after the injection?

In reality, the side effects of vaccines appear quickly, with only a few outliers appearing a few weeks later. No vaccines have side effects that only appear years later with no symptoms or signs beforehand.

The vaccines have been tested for months and the side effects are know for all practical purposes.

Insisting that they can only be safe if the extremely low possibility of side effects that only pop up randomly years later is not reasonable.

Conversely what are the long term side effects of covid? How can you discount the potential dangers of them when they can't possibly have been studied to your satisfaction either?

moonage wrote: »

Do they really know that they are essentially guinea pigs in a giant experiment?

What a silly hyperbolic statement.

But yes, companies and governments have been very open about all aspects of the vaccines.

Unless you subscribe to the idea that the vaccines are secretly part of a depopulation plot? Or that they contain secret technology to track people/make them magnetic/glow...

Also what covid measures do you believe are going to be permanent?

buzzerxx

The Nal wrote: »

A combo of both. "Vaccines dont work", find an article with a headline that looks like it may conclude that, read the headline, ignore the rest of the article, dump the link, run.

Its the garden variety conspiraloon way. Very prevalent on social media where pictures of headlines are posted as opposed to the actual article. Its the main reason we have conspiraloons. And the main reason why none want to debate. Even the famous ones. "I dont talk to MSM fake news" etc. Because their knowledge is as shallow as a worms grave. Theyd be torn apart. All so frantic and superficial. Echo chambers are easier.

buzzerxx

IF YOU CANNOT QUESTION IT.
IT'S NOT SCIENCE,
IT'S PROPAGANDA.

Dohnjoe

buzzerxx wrote: »

IF YOU CANNOT QUESTION IT.
IT'S NOT SCIENCE,
IT'S PROPAGANDA.

You aren't questioning anything, you are regurgitating anti-vax propaganda from the likes of Facebook. When you are questioned about your claims, you run or evade. All of this is part of a distinct pattern.

rtron

moonage wrote: »

Is it made clear to people about to be vaccinated that the clinical trials won't finish for years and that the medium and long-term safety is unknown?

The long term effects are under clinical trial and it is made clear to the recipients.