All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048788#Comment_118048788

You could always just answer the question rather than changing the topic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048805#Comment_118048805

I'll have to read through the list again, but I don't see anything inaccurate in what the poster wrote. Only one I'm not sure about is the tracking. But the poster was just presenting a hypothesis. It's not that important really.

Can you point to an instance of NPHET or the government saying that life would return to normal? Not 'a degree of normality' or 'a new normal', but 'normal'. They may have, but I don't ever recall hearing anything about normal life resuming. All I've ever heard is 'a degree of normality'.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048798#Comment_118048798

It's just semantics

How it's defined by words doesn't mean anything. Prior to the pandemic the entire world was working in offices, now a huge number of people are working for home, so it's not the same as before. You seem to have a bizarre paranoid view that NPHET, the government, etc all "control" the pandemic, they don't, they just react to it. Sometimes well, sometimes not so well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048874#Comment_118048874

I take from your answer that you can't. Neither can I. All I've ever heard is 'a degree of normality' and I even heard Varadkar say 'a return to a new normal'.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048909#Comment_118048909

I have fully addressed your question (which is a stupid question for the reasons I outlined)

If you can't understand the explanation, I doubt anyone can help you. I've seen basic concepts explained to you repeatedly for months and you systematically fail to grasp them so I strongly suspect the issue is on your end.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048929#Comment_118048929

You couldn't think of a single instance (because there isn't one) so you started talking about semantics. And you're exaggerating the work from home thing. In a lot of countries, it's starting to resemble pre-covid more and more in that people are teleworking a few days a week.

Can you point to a single instance of NPHET or the government saying that masks would ever go?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048961#Comment_118048961

No. You have created a question involving semantics which is nonsensical.

NPHET or the government or whomever don't 100% know what's going to happen next, so they can't say with absolute certainty. There could be a variant, Covid could be seasonal, there could be another pandemic. We might never have to wear masks again, we might have to wear masks for another year, we don't 100% know. No one is dictating the pandemic, we are reacting to it. Once you understand that basic notion you might stop asking these nonsensical questions.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048961#Comment_118048961

Masks will go when people decide that they can't be bothered to wear them anymore. Doubt the government is ever going to say stop wearing them. At most you'll get a "no longer required", then people will gradually stop wearing them as much and some people will still wear them when they are feeling a bit off for whatever other non covid illness and nobody will notice or care, and you'll probably still be asked to wear a mask at the GPs because that is just sensible.

Where is the problem with them just gradually fading away, and why would you think they won't just fade out of usage?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048873#Comment_118048873

So is that you saying that you do think those things are happening and are the conspiracies that you believe in?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048909#Comment_118048909

What’s normal for you? My normal is working from home now. I’ll switch employers if my current one insists that I return to the office because it’s not normal for me.

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047973#Comment_118047973

What's the obsession with socialism. What do you think socialism is? Do you think it's the same as communism? Do you think we could all become socialists without noticing? Where are you getting this from?

As regards Schwab, have you read much stuff on the WEF web site? Do you agree with any of it? I watched a speech Schwab gave, and read a good few articles on the WEF site, and I didn't see anything to be concerned about, on the contrary, there were lots of ideas that had merit (and, of course, some that didn't).

For someone who fears socialism it's strange that you're not a champion of the opposite model, where private mega corporations own and control large amounts of resources, and enjoy the power and influence that brings? And yes, corporations do influence and lobby governments every day, and often against the best interests of society and the overall good, and that's why we need government regulation, and accountability for politicians, so that society's interests are protected.

You seem to think that the UN and WEF have lots of power, and can call the shots around the world, and also that they are somehow bad! I think the UN manages to get some good work done despite having very little power as it needs to please so many constituencies. As far as I can see lots of obvious motions put to the UN are vetoed by the US or Russia or China, etc., and all the other countries just have to sit there and watch. The WEF have even less power, and are just a global chamber of commerce, where people meet and discuss lots of stuff. All the meetings and agendas are public and seem to me, again, to be mostly discussion sensible suggestions re the changing world we all live in.

I read your other post from this morning, and you created a fine list of things that you would do "to see if a socialist system would work in the West". Funnily enough, most of that same list would be what someone would do if there was a global pandemic and they were trying to mitigate the worst effects of a virus!!!

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048961#Comment_118048961

"In a lot of countries, it's starting to resemble pre-covid more and more in that people are teleworking a few days a week."

So are you now saying that restrictions in other countries are being removed and countries are moving more and more towards pre-covid normality? So covid measures didn't turn out to be permanent after all?

aido79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047167#Comment_118047167

Do you understand that Klaus Schwab writing about something is similar to Stephen King writing about it? The thing that they are writing about may happen in the future but it is not going to happen because either of them predicted it.

I really think you are struggling with this. I also don't think you understand what the WEF is. Can you clarify what exactly you think the WEF is and what sort of authority you think it has please?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050070#Comment_118050070

It's not so much about socialism as such, more to do with the old conspiracy theory reliable, "the good guys being bad", i.e. that democratic Western nations are secretly up to nefarious things and only the conspiracy theorists know it.

Prior to Trump, the fiendish end-goal of these secret planners was usually some form of fascism, but I've noticed that has swung more to a tyrannical form of socialism/Communism over the last few years

Basically your local TD's wake up salivating at the thought of turning Ireland into China, rolling out the carpet to the reds and implementing the usual dystopian 1984 tyrannical controls. The "smarter" conspiracy theorists just modify this whichever way they want to make it sound more believable. There's "clues" for it everywhere, look we have to hand in papers, wear muzzles and be injected like sheep. Big tech getting bigger, Big pharma only growing, "a new normal", look at who's benefitting from all this, open your eyes, etc.

I just find it funny that people who don't believe the government, are so hung up on the tiny semantics of how they say something...

You either believe them or not... not when it's for something you are trying to skew into part of your beliefs and attempting to turn it into an "aha , we were right all along"

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050312#Comment_118050312

Re Trump, I think that 4 years of his influence has unhinged some people from basic reality. It seems to me that he realised early that critical thinking individuals would call bs on lots of what he says, so he employed a strategy to discredit the main stream media, calling it all fake news, and started feeding his take on things (bs mostly imo) to his followers via twitter, etc. It seems that a proportion of people in this country have contracted the Trump virus (likely from US & Canadian web site, youtube, etc), where they just believe stuff without knowing why, and mistrust any information that doesn't fit into the narrative.

To be fair, I suppose there are plenty of examples of hard core members of different groups, movements, political parties, etc., that stick to unrealistic and biased standpoints, despite reality suggesting differently if they were to just look around objectively and with balance.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046196#Comment_118046196

The majority of hospital admissions are not comprised of the unvaccinated. 1 in 3 are unvaccinated (and this is anecdotal and in all likelyhood exaggerated)

People keep saying "a disproportionate amount are unvaccinated" - this is meaningless. I would say a disproportionate amount of hospitalisations and ICU patients are vaccinated given that's exactly what the vaccine is supposed to prevent.

As we go through the winter we will see more and more vaccinated people be hospitalised and they will eventually dwarf the amount of unvaccinated in terms of overall usage of resources. Wait and see.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050676#Comment_118050676

The extreme fringe on both sides definitely a key issue, but the conspiracy theorists have certainly taken a lurch to the right in recent years. When Trump actually won the election there was a noticeable confusion on conspiracy forums and sites, but they quickly reorganised onto the "deep state" and "pizza gate" stuff, business as usual resumed. No surprise how the secret baddies pretending to be goodies are all Communists now, funny that.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050312#Comment_118050312

That's a bold statement to imply western nations are not up to nefarious things given how much has happened in recent decades

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051019#Comment_118051019

Dude....you believe the earth is flat, why would I believe anything else you claim 🤣🤣🤣

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051117#Comment_118051117

"Dude..." is a very american thing to say. If I didn't know any better I would say you are either from and/or are living in the US. But I know you would never admit it for some reason or another...

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051019#Comment_118051019

"People keep saying "a disproportionate amount are unvaccinated" - this is meaningless. I would say a disproportionate amount of hospitalisations and ICU patients are vaccinated given that's exactly what the vaccine is supposed to prevent."

You claim that saying "a disproportionate amount are unvaccinated" is meaningless! If 7% of adults are unvaccinated, but make up 33% of hospital admissions, and 66% of ICU numbers, how can the statement be meaningless? Are you sure you understand how proportions work?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051019#Comment_118051019

You are absolutely correct that a higher number of vaccinated people will end up in hospital with covid, and they will be in greater proportion compared to the unvaccinated.

You clearly don't understand numbers though if you think that proves your point about the vaccine not working though. If 100% of the population is vaccinated then 100% of the covid patients will be vaccinated, but that doesn't mean that the vaccines don't work.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051137#Comment_118051137

Why do you think I don't understand it? Those proportions would still apply if there were 3 unvaccinated and 6 vaccinated in hospital. This obsession with the proportion is simply being used as a weapon to attack the unvaccinated. Just wait until January and you will find that there will be no mention of vaccinated/unvaccinated proportions when the intensive care units are overflowing.

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051174#Comment_118051174

But there aren't just 3 unvaccinated and 6 vaccinated in hospital, so haven't you just made a meaningless point? (it seems just in the last 24 hrs there were 35 covid admissions to hospital, and 14 admissions to ICU)

There is no obsession with proportions, it is the normal tool that one uses to assess relative risks. What do you base your conclusions on? (conclusions that appear to be way off the mark)

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051135#Comment_118051135

Nope, I live in the UK, Cheshire in England if you would like me to be more exact so by your own admission you don't know any better 😁

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051152#Comment_118051152

I never once said they don't work and I never once said anything anti-vaccine.

This just shows the skewed perspective you have of people in this thread.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051174#Comment_118051174

Yea. You don't understand how proportions work.

If the vaccine was having no effect, then the percentages of those catching the virus would be the same as the percentage of people who are vaccinated.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051224#Comment_118051224

Why are you obsessed with the proportions? How many times do you want me to explain it?

If we vaccinate the last 10%, do you really think this will prevent the intensive care units from overflowing in January?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051135#Comment_118051135

Lol.

I like how you again avoid stating your belief on the shape of the earth while again repeating your bizarre notion that some of us are secretly American.

And you're basing this off some one using the word dude.

Embarrassing.