All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072576#Comment_118072576

You're still bundling all conspiracy theories together like it's impossible any are true. The lab leak theory was debunked and fact checked off all major platforms, people who wrote papers about it had to retract the papers, people were banned from facebook and twitter for spreading "misinformation". Experts said it was "impossible" that it came from a lab. Now its widely considered the most likely source, so we know that the experts lied about it. Why would they do that?, it was either a conspiracy where they got together and decided to lie, or their personal politics influenced the work they were doing, and the result is they subconsciously lied, or promoted ides they'd like to be true and discounted ideas that didn't fit their politics. Personally I think "conspiracies" are far more often the latter, not a bunch of people actually conspiring at all.

Then there was the "conspiracy theory" that the research in the lab was funded by Fauci and the NIH, I've personally been told to take that idea to the conspiracy theory forum, despite providing the documents proving that it was true. There were threads closed for discussing that topic, because they "belonged in the conspiracy theory forum", example below. Now the NIH are admitting it, but I wouldn't be surprised if people on here feel like the NIH are conspiracy theorists now too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058075163/fauci-outsourced-the-development-of-covid-19-to-wuhan

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073125#Comment_118073125

Cool.

What measures are going to be permanent and why?

So far, the only theories that have been halfway posited here is the notion that all or some measures will be permanent because the WEF and unspecificied others are planning to use the pandemic to install a global communism state.

Any comment on this idea? Any comment on the other theories presented? Any comment on the abjectly dishonest behaviour of the conspiracy theorists on this thread when they are asked about their theories?

If you agree that there's no conspiracy here and that no measures are going to be made permanent for ulterior motives, then maybe we can move on to the random tangent you've raised in your post.

This continual deflection from the actual point of the thread is a bit tedious.

I do also like how you're whinging about "lumping conspiracy theorists together" yet then go on to lump all media, including boards into one big concerted conspiracy.

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073133#Comment_118073133

I've already answered that, I don't think any are strictly permanent for sure, but I'm starting to think masks actually might be. There's no logic or science behind some of the mask rules, but they're still making them rules, so for some reason they seem to want to keep masks around. You can dance on a packed dancefloor and not wear a mask, but if you're standing beside the dancefloor you need to wear one, unless you're drinking? There's no science behind that, it's just a random rule pulled out of somebody's arse. It doesn't provide any benefit to the people in the nightclub, and no direct benefit to anybody outside the nightclub either, so maybe it's just about control, to keep people accustomed to compliance.

I don't think I was going off on a random tangent, I was replying to you. You said "No conspiracy theorist seems to want to discuss other theories at all", so I discussed two other supposed "conspiracy theories".

And I'm not lumping all media sources and boards into one big conspiracy theory. Again you keep assuming that any group of people who appear to have the same motives are conspiring, I'm not suggesting that at all. People with similar politics will come to similar conclusions, both on the left and the right, without ever knowing each other, that's not a conspiracy.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073158#Comment_118073158

But you haven't answered the question.

You've vaguely stated that you believe masks (and other measures are permanent.)

You ahven't explained why.

Explain it now please. No more deflection and dodging.

What do you believe is the real reason they want people to keep wearing masks since they aren't useful?

Simple question, yet you guys keep dodging it.

If you aren't going to answer this question, explain why.

sydthebeat

"I think masks might be made permanent, apart from all the situations where its not"

Erm, OK.

Do people realise that mask wearing was encouraged and cultural in Asian countries pre pandemic if the wearer was ill and didn't want to spread the illness?

If that type of mask wearing was encouraged here, would that be some huge conspiracy theory by a government trying to control you??

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073179#Comment_118073179

Again, by asking for every single detail of any conspiracy theory, what you are essentially asking for is proof, if I elaborate further, you'll start asking for more details, and asking for names etc.. If I had that information, it wouldn't be a theory, it would be a fact. And that information isn't required for somebody to have a THEORY, you'll keep asking questions until somebody can't answer one of your questions as though you've caught them out.

Can you tell me why it makes sense to not wear a mask on a dancefloor, or if you're drinking beside a dancefloor, but you do need one if you're just standing beside a dancefloor not drinking. What do you believe is the real reason for that? To stop the spread of the virus? How does that work?

To me, that doesn't make any sense from virus control point of view, and you say these people making the rules are experts, so I assume they are intelligent people, so there must be a valid reason. I don't know what it is, all I can do is theorize. I don't see any financial benefit to anybody, especially those making the rules, so why would they make what I believe to arbitrary rules? And I theorize, maybe they want to keep people compliant. One theory for why they would do that is because the more somebody is complying with you, the more likely they are to continue to comply, with future commands, like the low ball technique in phycology. Maybe they have a legitimate reason for that, maybe it's even Covid related, for example they want to keep people complying with Covid measures however arbitrary so that the compliance will still be there if more lockdowns are required, it could be as innocent as that, I don't know, but it's not to stop the spread of viruses in nightclubs in my opinion.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073217#Comment_118073217

Waffle and deflection.

I'm not asking for proof. I'm asking you guys to detail out your theory in more than vague terms.

So you believe masks are going to be permanent.

You believe that this is because they "want to test compliance"

This is a very vague and kinda silly theory.

How does making people wear masks "test compliance?"

Why do they want to "test compliance"?

Who are "they"?

Again I don't understand why you are so afraid of answering deeper questions about your theory.

Why is it impossible for you to just admit that you don't know an answer?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073217#Comment_118073217

Why do you feel you have to make up a conspiracy which you can barely rationalise in your head and for which there is no evidence?

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073234#Comment_118073234

I'm repeatedly saying to you that I do not know the answers to all of your questions. I don't know if masks will be permeant, I wouldn't have thought so a few weeks ago, but recent decisions have me questioning that.

If it's not about compliance, then tell me what's your theory around nightclub mask rules. That it's to stop the spread of Covid? That's a very vague silly theory if you ask me. How does it stop the spread of Covid?

They are the government and NPHET. You may take everything they say at face value, but they have lied and omitted facts before to influence behavior. They said masks don't work so that people wouldn't buy them, then made them mandatory weeks later, they refused to release the stats on the age of the dead to "avoid giving the wrong impression", so that young people wouldn't get the right impression. I'm not saying its a big evil conspiracy, they are more than likely doing everything with the best of intentions, but they are not being entirely truthful, they will say what they believe is for the greater good. Removing restrictions might create an inertia in re-implementing them, so maybe they don't want things going back to normally fully any time soon, I can't answer all your questions because I'm not in the room when these rules are discussed.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073338#Comment_118073338

Sure. I'll explain it to you once you cofirm that you aren't able to provide a rational conspiracy theory explanation.

Can you explain why they want to make masks permanent, yes or no?

If yes, explain it.

If no, then I will give you the non conspiracy theory explaination.

No need for more waffling and ranting. Just a yes or no will do.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073304#Comment_118073304

I believe it's partly to cope with the uncomfortable idea that the world isn't in anyone's control and is completely chaotic.

And partly to pretend to be informed and in on some secret knowledge cause it sounds cool and impressive.

I think it's why conspiracy theorists react so violently to basic questions. The fact they can't shatters these illusions and this upsets them greatly.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073338#Comment_118073338

Or perhaps the politicians and TD's and health officials are handling (and mishandling) a crisis and there's no nefarious conspiracy. The fact that you are struggling to even make up a conspiracy should give you a clue.

Also it's a bad idea to dream up a motive and a narrative and then work backwards to try and validate it with nothing but personal rationalisations. That's called creative writing.

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073426#Comment_118073426

That of course is entirely possible! That the experts, are not in fact, as smart as they think, but some people on here like to ridicule anybody who dares to question "the experts", as much as they ridicule anybody with an alternative theory.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073458#Comment_118073458

But when the alternative theories are like yours, and are very shallow and don't make any sense, why would anyone take them seriously?

Are you gone back into ignoring mode or are you going to answer my yes or no question any time soon?

If not, doesn't that also tell you why your theories are ridiculed? If you have to run away from a yes or no question, why would anyone take your theory seriously?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073458#Comment_118073458

Lots of info on the "why" of conspiracy theories online, good piece from the Irish Times below.

“Any crisis, pandemic or otherwise, is fertile ground for conspiracy theories because people search for easy explanations for something that appears unmanageable. Conspiracy theories allow people to believe there is a hidden structure to the world. They are fundamentally reassuring – a comforting ideological fantasy – since they propose that someone, somewhere, is in control, no matter how malevolent they may be.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories-1.4236138

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073469#Comment_118073469

I already explained my theory twice. What further explanation would you like?

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073479#Comment_118073479

But what you said doesn't hold water. Once someone asks why... You go... Maybe control... What does that mean?

Does it not make more sense that there is a new pandemic and governments are just doing their best and being human, thus making mistakes and learning as they go?

I mean the Irish government can't fix the roads in Ireland... Or even hide a secret golf trip... How could they possibly be hiding evil mask wearing plans?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073479#Comment_118073479

Answers to my questions.

You claim that masks are going to be permanent. You believe that this is for the purposes of "Testing out compliance."

The questions are:

1. Who are "They"?
2. How do masks "Test compliance?"
3. Why do they want to test compliance.

You ahve not answered these questions.

If you believe you have, quote where. Or alternatively, answer them now.

However if you can't answer these questions, just say so. Just admit you don't know.

Also, could you maybe try answering the questions I asked you in that post as well.

I asked:

When the alternative theories are like yours, and are very shallow and don't make any sense, why would anyone take them seriously?

You see, when you dodge questions, they don't vanish, they just pile up.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073479#Comment_118073479

I don't think it's a good theory, in fact, it's more of a non-theory considering there's no credible evidence, BUT, at least you've prefaced it as a personal opinion and are not stating it as fact (and attacking posters who question you).

ohnohedidnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073509#Comment_118073509

This is exactly the problem with people who are against any sort of alternative theory. I never said it was evil, I outlined some potential reasons they would do it that might actually help in the event of a new variant. You labelled it as an evil plan. I wouldn't even class it as a conspiracy. We know they lied about masks before, was that an evil conspiracy too?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073534#Comment_118073534

But you aren't putting forward any kind of coherent alternative theory.

So far it's just "Masks will be permanent because... I dunno control or something." And then you whinge and dodge when anyone tries to probe any deeper into that theory.

Why should anyone take this theory seriously? Why should we take it more seriously than the theories presented in this thread like "All measures will be permanent becase... I dunno communism or satanism or something"?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073534#Comment_118073534

Out of curiosity what was the lie about masks?

I hope you aren't confusing it with the fact that when Covid emerged we weren't sure if masks would be truly effective or not (that pathogens might be small enough to easily pass through masks), there was a lot of uncertainty and debate over this initially, but as we learnt more, it became clear that masks reduced the spread of Covid.

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073534#Comment_118073534

Well I had to add evil... Because you have given no reason other than control... So far we have had... Global communism and Satan... Which are both evil and scary.

So if the government are not doing this for an evil reason... Then they are just doing their best in uncertain times... If you don't think its evil... Then what's the conspiracy?

robinph

The reason for the daft inconsistencies in mask rules is just that they need to appear to be doing something. There is no conspiracy, there is no evil master plan to create a new system of control over the population.

Just a case of there is a pandemic going on. Something needs to be done in various situations. In some situations those rules make no sense. In order to just muddle through in the best way possible your far better off not over thinking those oddities. There is nothing more behind them than a mixture of incompetence and, nobody has any better ideas just yet.

https://id2020.org/

Gates and Rockefeller looking to implement a global digital Id since 2016..

Why?..

I wonder why they called it id2020?..

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073565#Comment_118073565

Generally they like to trot out some statement Fauci/the Americans made towards the start. But even that was "We're not sure if masks are efffective or not. don't buy them so there's enough for emergency workers".

I'm not aware of any Irish health organisations or spokespeople saying that masks don't work. I'm sure if there was, we'd be having that rubbed in our faces a lot. I doubt that he's going to provide you a source and will instead whinge about people "Demanding proof!"

Again we've switched from "I'm not saying there's a big global conspiracy" to "Fauci and the Irish government are a part of "They"."

It flips every time it's convenient to the theory.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073609#Comment_118073609

Fact if your opinion on Gates and Rockefeller? It should be east to provide evidence if fact.

A quick look at the link you provided doesn’t appear to have any mention of Gates or Rockefeller being involved in it: https://id2020.org/leadership

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073609#Comment_118073609

Are we back to Gates and the "elites" already? The circle seems to come around a lot faster these days.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073609#Comment_118073609

Wrong thread.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073674#Comment_118073674

Yeah. Gates is like the Big Bad Wolf, and Conspiracy theorists are the little piggies. The story has been retold so many times that they believe it.

They obviously don’t know the story of the boy who cried wolf. Some day they may end up in a nefarious situation and no one will believe them.