All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

The Nal

He's referring to leaving masks on for the duration of the pandemic. Not for ever. This is basic stuff.

What you have done is called a quote mine and its a pathetically transparent tactic.

Do you still walk through a foot and mouth matt when you walk into a shop?

Everyone knew post 9/11 airport security had changed forever btw.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349084#Comment_118349084

Thanks for actually posting the exact interview segment. He is obviously talking about during the pandemic. I haven’t the foggiest how you can’t figure that out from the conversation.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344431#Comment_118344431

All very interesting if we were discussing the Reformation and the subsequent plantation of Ireland by England of those loyal to the Crown and the Church of England, but what has that got to do with the title of this thread.

Governments are always eager to pursue new ways of getting their hands on extra revenue. They tend to use it as largesse attempting to get themselves re-elected in the main, but where is the benefit supposed to accrue for imposing restrictions ?

I imagine lesson 101 in any political handbook would strongly advice not to do it if you want to be re-elected. So why do you believe they are doing it seeing as you believe we are somehow gullible fools for allowing them to do it. Do you believe it is all a part of some worldwide nefarious conspiracy? If you do then we really are all eager to hear who is behind it, how are restrictions going to accomplish their aims and what it is supposed to achieve, seeing as we are 329 pages in and no answer to any of those questions so far

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347772#Comment_118347772

"But I don`t buy the argument that tens of thousands would have to keep quiet for there to be a conspiracy"

Have you lost touch completely with reality ?

Every government in the world would have to be in on the conspiracy, and like our own, every one of them could hold a secret of that magnitude about as long as they could hold their water. You could not get a majority of them to agree on the time of day let alone get all of them to agree to some vague reset conspiracy.

For your own sake stop trawling around these grifter and mentally deranged websites before you fry the rest of your brain cells.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349788#Comment_118349788

I love how governments are supposed to be able to keep this giant conspiracy complete secret, but then the British government isn't able to keep a Christmas party secret.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people here will go to persuade themselves that 1+1 doesn't equal 2. The interviewer asks that Fauci person if he thinks we'll EVER get to the point that we won't have to wear masks on planes and he replies "I don't think so". Somehow that means 'during the pandemic', according to some on here.

And what I really don't understand is why the absolute hostility to any possibility that measures are permanent. All of the evidence of the past two years points to their being permanent in Ireland. Not once has it ever been said that normal life would resume in Ireland. Nothing ever about masks or the vaccine passport going. That 22nd of October thing was always impossible because it was never going to happen that restrictions would be dropped in any way (and even the 22nd of October thing wasn't a complete dropping of restrictions) in the depths of winter. Far from restrictions being eased, they're actually increasing. With 95% of the eligible population vaccinated all the signs point to a lockdown next month (I think it was the Sunday Business Post that had an article about how businesses have been told to prepare for shutdowns). The deputy Taoiseach casually mentioning how this could go on for years. The Taoiseach casually mentioning that the vaccine passport/certificate will be updated with the booster and required all of next year.

And it's really frustrating having to correct so many things so many times on here. But again, it's not the case that thousands would have to keep something quiet. And I don't say that's what's going on here, but just in general or hypothetically-speaking. The appalling Tuskegee Study wasn't leaked for 40 years. How many people would have known about the study and said nothing for 40 years? How do people explain that one? I'm sure that will be ignored like everything else that contradicts what they're claiming, which appears to be that it's impossible for governments to do bad things and it's impossible for temporary measures to become permanent. They very often do. And it's nothing nefarious. It's just simply that they're never repealed.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350033#Comment_118350033

The first paragraph of your rant was more than enough. They are talking about the pandemic and mask wearing on airplanes during the pandemic. It says a lot about you when you are presented with 1 + 1 and you don’t get 2 as the answer.

Also you are now back to saying it’s about Ireland only. Remind us who introduced the Fauci clip and what country he represents? Fish out of water flip flop less than you do.

As for thousands having to keep quiet. There are 195 countries of varying size. How many people in one country would have to be involved in a plot of this magnitude (a plot that you can’t explain or even hint at what it may be)? Very conservatively an average of 25 people per country. There is your thousands. Btw, I’m saying 25 when the real number in many countries would be in the thousands alone.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350033#Comment_118350033

Again a hypocritical rant that is chock full of projection.

No one is claiming the government is incapable of doing bad things. No one is arguing this. This is a strawman you and your buddies keep using despite knowing full well its false and knowing full well its been explained to you.

You also whinge about "having to correct people".

Why aren't you correcting any conspiracy theorists.

Your friends have claimed a great many false things yet you never once call them up on it.

You aren't correcting people, you are pushing a conspiracy theory. To you its acceptable to lie and dodge to push this conspiracy theory.

If you frustrated by doing this, maybe stop?

Or perhaps explainw hy you are being so dishonest to push a conspiracy theory you know is false.

I'm also curious how you explain how the Tuskegee experiments were exposed.

Do you think it was exposed by people like yourself telling lies on the internet?

Dr. Bre

Masks on a plane is the least of my worries. If that was the only restriction to stay then happy days

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350033#Comment_118350033

The entire basis of the conversation was pandemic related. If you bothered to look at all of it or even skim read the article you would've seen that.

Why do you want to bring so much fear and misery into your life? Why so scared?

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350033#Comment_118350033

And what I really don't understand is why the absolute hostility to any possibility that measures are permanent. All of the evidence of the past two years points to their being permanent in Ireland. Not once has it ever been said that normal life would resume in Ireland. Nothing ever about masks or the vaccine passport going. 

But don't you see how ridiculous it is to start proposing that measures taken in response to a pandemic are 'permanent'. The measure are being taken purely in response to the spread, and threat, from the virus. Are you saying that virus doesn't exist, and that the measures are therefore not necessary? I'm not hostile to the idea that measures are permanent, I just don't see any logic in that argument, and it would only make sense if the virus was a hoax and somehow we were all being tricked, and that idea I consider completely delusional.

I think the virus does exist, and while it's not a serious risk to the majority it nevertheless does pose a risk to the hospitals if it's not kept under some sort of control. To me it makes perfect sense, even if I don't like it, that the government, in conjunction with the health services, tries to mitigate the effects, which is resulting in some restrictions being reintroduced for a limited period over the winter. It may be the case that people may not get as sick from the Omicron variant, but if we wait to see what happens, and if it turn out people do get very sick, then it will be too late and we'll be in trouble. What do you suggest we do?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350033#Comment_118350033

Just to add a bit of context to your amazement and frustration.

On Fauci`s remark. A friend asks me do I believe a particular team will win a game. My reply is " I don`t think so". In other words, personally I don`t believe they will, but I could be wrong.

On Tuskegee. I can see where in those circumstances it is quite conceivable with regards to the numbers that something could be kept secret for some time, but the idea that what you are suggesting could be kept secret by every government on the planet for more than 5 minutes is absolute bonkers. The real frustration is that you have become so removed from reality you cannot see that.

You mention the 22nd. October. Based on the title of this thread, what restrictions remained on that date, and which that were supposedly to remain permanent were gone ?

The very simple fact that you are at pains to avoid is that we have a pandemic that neither you or any other conspiracy theorist has put forward any even vaguely creditable solution to.

Like any pandemic in the past, or indeed any medical emergency, measures are imposed to deal with the risks with the severity of those measures being eased as the risk abates. All the evidence to date points to exactly the same being the case now. Not to all restrictions being permanent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350699#Comment_118350699

Sadly I don't think it will be the only one. Vaccine passes, masks, mass testing, HSE ads, business closures and social distancing will all remain as well, in my opinion. Varadkar said the other day that 'periods of freedom' might be granted. Really that means a few places open and being able to go to them in a mask, with a pass, and socially distanced.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118351701#Comment_118351701

Well, we're already seeing the idea of lockdowns being used for health in general coming into play. From Holohan today:

'Follow the spirit' of new Covid guidelines - Holohan (rte.ie)

"Dr Holohan said that the new restrictions are intended to protect against a significant increase in hospitalisations and the wider protection of public health."

Why is always the extreme that the virus is a hoax? Why is it not perfectly reasonable for a person to believe that covid exists but to be worried about restrictions becoming normalised and lockdowns being used throughout the year for public health more generally, as described by Holohan above? Varadkar is talking now about this going on for years and 'periods of freedom' being granted to the people (as long as their certs are up to date). Do you think that people's freedom is the government's to give?

I presume you would agree that restrictions are being introduced based on modelling. What do you make of this exchange between Fraser Nelson and Graham Medley: My Twitter conversation with the chairman of the Sage Covid modelling committee | The Spectator

"He seemed to suggest that he has been given a very limited brief, and asked to churn out worse-case scenarios without being asked to comment on how plausible they are."

Why would the UK Government ask for worst-case scenarios only? And there's no Fourth Estate in Ireland, so it's not possible to talk about nphet and their modelling. That's why I have to look to England, the closest thing to the US that exists in Europe in terms of a tradition/culture of liberty. It's interesting to analyse England. No point in examining Ireland.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353334#Comment_118353334

"Why would the UK Government ask for worst-case scenarios only?"

Are you serious?

You ask for the worse case scenario so you can try and plan ahead for if it happens!

I'm actually stunned that this has to be explained to you 🤷‍♂️😬

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353348#Comment_118353348

Flip Flop strikes again. Back off Ireland yet it’s allegedly only about Ireland.

Point missed, as usual. But not surprising, I suppose, considering 'Do you ever think we'll fly maskless' somehow means 'during the pandemic' according to the same four or five (any excuse to disagree with the so-called conspiracy theorists, no matter how ridiculous). And the usual childish thank yous, of course.

The point is that they're asking for worst-case scenarios only and basing their decisions on those worst-case scenarios, regardless of how unrealistic they are. The SAGE models have been spectacularly wrong and yet all of the decisions were based on the models. They appear to be looking for reasons to restrict life.

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353657#Comment_118353657

OK grand... Why?

Are they trying too combat a virus... Or are they trying to control us all?

Is the control just in Ireland? Or is it world wide?

I'm also not expecting a response here, as you have ignored everything else I've asked.

sydthebeat

HSE ads!!!!

Oh my god, the hell. !!!!!!!!

Won't someone please think of the children. !!!!!

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353718#Comment_118353718

Horrifying stuff that I’ve actually never seen or heard. It’s easy to avoid all ads and advisable if they are the equivalent of the Antichrist.

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353334#Comment_118353334

"Dr Holohan said that the new restrictions are intended to protect against a significant increase in hospitalisations and the wider protection of public health."

What's wrong with Tony Holohan saying that? Do you not believe in the wider protection of public health?

"Why is always the extreme that the virus is a hoax? Why is it not perfectly reasonable for a person to believe that covid exists but to be worried about restrictions becoming normalised and lockdowns being used throughout the year for public health more generally, as described by Holohan above? Varadkar is talking now about this going on for years and 'periods of freedom' being granted to the people (as long as their certs are up to date). Do you think that people's freedom is the government's to give?"

However your post seem to completely ignores the context of the virus! The only way a lot of your posts make sense is if there was no virus. Why would restrictions become normalised once the virus is no longer a threat? Why would lockdowns be used throughout the year when we all know that winter months are peak for respiratory infections like Covid.

And you're spinning what Varadkar is saying as regards 'periods of freedom'!! And as to your question, do I think that people's freedom is the government's to give? The government are the people we elect, and we delegate to them the power to make decisions based on the best information at their disposal. At the moment, and in the past couple of years, the decisions they've made have been broadly understandable and justifiable, and if it involved restricting some 'freedoms' it was/is for the common good. That's how I see it. I wouldn't support a free for all, and the hospitals being overrun, etc.

Again I ask, what would you propose the government do? If you were the CMO, or minister for health, what would you propose we all do right now. Would you remove restrictions completely? If you did that what would you expect to happen as regards case numbers and hospitalisations in the next month or two?

If you can't, or won't, say what you would do, then it undermines any other arguments you make, because this is the hard decision that needs to be taken right now, and if you can't make that decision what right have you to criticise those that are making the decisions?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353262#Comment_118353262

Why would government use a fake pandemic to give them an excuse to close down businesses? Which specific business are governments using the cover of covid to close down?

sydthebeat

What I can't understand is how the CTers completely fail to realise is that we had a world wide pandemic in 1915.

We had forced curfews, schools, theatres, public spaces and gatherings.... All shut. We practised social distancing, mask wearing was mandated and non conformists were fined and in some cases jailed. And believe it or not, in one case a health officer shot a person dead for refusing to wear a mask.

All of this, 100 years ago. They fought the Spanish flu for nearly five years in some countries.

And yet......

We were able to go the next 100 years without worrying about mask mandates, social distancing etc etc public health measures etc etc.

Nothing permanent.

But now for some reason these "truthers" LOL think for some reason the public heath measures being enacted now, during a world wide pandemic.... Are somehow "permanent"... Even though the closest thing we have to a previous example shows is that actually, no, they are not permanent. Weren't last time, not going to be this time.

But hey, they read it on gript so it must be true......

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354268#Comment_118354268

Thought it was the pubs?

The global communist conspiracy is all to make use Irish pubs close at 5.

brianhere

sydherbeat

"What I can't understand is how the CTers completely fail to realise is that we had a world wide pandemic in 1915.

We had forced curfews, schools, theatres, public spaces and gatherings.... All shut. We practised social distancing, mask wearing was mandated and non conformists were fined and in some cases jailed. And believe it or not, in one case a health officer shot a person dead for refusing to wear a mask."

That most certainly did not happen, not in any shape or form in this country in 1918/9 which is presumably what you are referring to. No mask wearing, no social distancing certainly no compulsory closure of anything. When the equivalent of the CMO of the time was asked about that, I have forgotten his name but he was in his 80s at the time, he said that they couldn't possibly compel people to close businesses, schools and cinemas etc, because the government had no such right under the constitution. He did ask for some of those to close voluntarily very briefly, and some did in the cities for a month or two.

There are other countries in the world with much less of a tradition of personal liberty but nothing remotely like that was ever let happen here, the people would not stand for it.

robinh

"Why would government use a fake pandemic to give them an excuse to close down businesses? Which specific business are governments using the cover of covid to close down?"

Under Communism all businesses have to come under the umbrella of the state, all of them other than some very large multinationals whose bosses already cooperate closely with the state as it stands.

No, there is such a thing as Communism, it isn't the same thing as walking talking lizards etc etc. Its a very powerful and very real ideology which is very obviously pushed through on steroids in the last two years.

sydthebeat

Brianhere thinks that pandemics are unilateral then???

The lack of knowledge certainly does not astound me

Larbre34

Hmm, if only we could possibly put our finger on the difference between the World of 1920 and that of 2020.

Nope, it won't come to me.......

brianhere

Anyway I claim again that some people here have a complete misunderstanding of the history of these islands if they think for a minute that the kind of government oppression we have seen over the last two years would be remotely tolerated by the ordinary people in the past here. I mean by that that the ordinary people would never dream of complying with terrible oppression like that, no matter what excuse or yarn the government of the day was peddling.

Here is an example from 1733 where they shudder at the idea of inoculations, which was already stated to be done to about 15 to 20,000 children in England at that time:

“The doctrines of the bow-string, and of inoculating in the small-pox, are both of Mahometan original, and can never suit a freeborn English Constitution. As to inoculation, if it be said, that many of the learned, the noble, and the wise are for it, I answer, many are against it too. But if all such were for it; if it be not lawful, that would not justify the practice; and till the advocates for this sort of manslaughter can produce some text of Scripture, to warrant our giving ourselves a distemper we might never have, or not till a more proper season, they do nothing – Would these gentlemen, if the plague was amongst us, inoculate for that? The same reason holds good in both.

Did none inoculated ever die? Or if an inoculation from a good distinct sort, always produced its like, and not an ugly confluent kind, as is commonly the case; or if with the small-pox, no other distemper was inoculated, (as the grandpox, leprosy, the evil, &c) which cannot be avoided, if the patient, from whom the pocky virus was taken, was infected therewith, and which has been communicated to the patient inoculated, then, indeed, some thing might be pleaded for the practice. But how many lives have been lost this way, let the mourning, inconsolable parents declare, who have drank of this bitter cup! “Tis true, the intention constitutes the act of murder: but if lives, lost by inoculation, be not manslaughter (be the intention never so innocent) I am at a loss what name to give it.

It is commonly boasted, that very few that are inoculated die. But if only one has died, yet that one had not died, if he had not been inoculated; and who must be charged with the loss of that one life? But the reason why so few die that are inoculated, is, because they are of the young, the healthy, and the rich, whose bodies are prepared for the operation, and have all the help, that art and affluence can give. But the greatest part of those who die of it the natural way, are either aged or diseased, or poor, or want necessaries, have bad nurses, no physician, improper medicines, or are obstinate and ungovernable. Let our inoculators try their skill on such as these, and compare the numbers that die either way.

But if they will take the Almighty’s work out of his Hands, instead of inoculating the patient, let him be had into a chamber, where a young person has a good sort: though this seems unjustifiable, and not to be done without hazarding a life, over which we have no power, and without any regard to providence; for it is one thing to trust providence, and another to tempt it.

Democritus”

(The Gentleman’s Magazine (London, 1733) vol iii, p.514-512.)

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354689#Comment_118354689

Yeah, because they had really good knowledge of how viruses and pandemics worked in 1773!

And are they really claiming that the disease is "gods work" here?

"But if they will take the Almighty’s work out of his Hands, instead of inoculating the patient"

Yeah, an article from a magazine almost 250 ago is a great defence for your argument 🤣🤣🤣

P.S: Smallpox was eradicated due to vaccines and vaccination for it stopped around 1972.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354689#Comment_118354689

If you genuinely believe this why have you guys been lying and acting generally dishonest throughout this thread?

Why have you not called out any of the conspiracy theorists who are claiming you agree with them for their lie about the virus and the vaccines?