All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Quiner

LAZYIRISH wrote: »

It is what I meant also, it is very hypocritical for people to give so much on this virus yet these elderly and vulnerable men & women have been dying for years of the latter& no such fuss has been made, and to say human beings with cancer & other ailments are less important is sick disgusting thing to say ,to me anyway. Our nurses and doctors have the ppe there to protect them and it should be used , patients should be seen for other serious diseases and not have appointments cancelled.

I'm genuinely curious. I don't remember seeing or hearing about perfectly healthy people getting tested every day for the flu last year. People will argue that there's a vaccine for the flu, but it's not that effective and I believe around 600,000 people die of the flu every year around the world. Maybe people were getting tested for it, and wearing masks, and perhaps gloves, around the elderly last year, but I don't recall hearing about it.

I drew attention to the terrible case of two young mothers in the UK. One died at 31 because her chemo treatment was paused because covid was prioritised. Another young mother has mere months to live. She's 23 years old. Six vital appointments were cancelled because covid was prioritised. So many people will die because of lockdowns and their catastrophic consequences.

runawaybishop

Quiner wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious. I don't remember seeing or hearing about perfectly healthy people getting tested every day for the flu last year. People will argue that there's a vaccine for the flu, but it's not that effective and I believe around 600,000 people die of the flu every year around the world. Maybe people were getting tested for it, and wearing masks, and perhaps gloves, around the elderly last year, but I don't recall hearing about it.

I drew attention to the terrible case of two young mothers in the UK. One died at 31 because her chemo treatment was paused because covid was prioritised. Another young mother has mere months to live. She's 23 years old. Six vital appointments were cancelled because covid was prioritised. So many people will die because of lockdowns and their catastrophic consequences.

You are genuinely something, but it isn't curious. We have several effective vaccines for the flu, which not everyone takes. 1.6 million people dead from covid in less than a year and vaccines only now getting approved. One of the unfortunate women you mentioned had cancer that is extremely rare. In an ideal world this wouldn't happen, but your solution is what, ignore covid?

Awaiting your response on the genuine conspiracy happening in Tanzania. Actually who am I kidding, we all know what will happen when one of your daft theories is disproven. So let's cut to the chase, what's the next ill-researched bit of nonsense?

patnor1011

Decades of developing and using flu vaccines and still a pure chance if we get the correct strain and even if lucky effectivity is pretty low anyway.
Yet here we go with covid vaccine developed in less than 6 months and a lot of hope that we get it right.
Yeah right...

ShatterAlan

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

So, in the vast, vast majority of times that there is majority consensus on healthcare issues that is proven to be the best course of action - which is almost always evolving as our knowledge of these issues is expanded through further research and analysis - we should not trust them because of the couple of instances that it was later proven to be wrong?

I never said that. And neither did Quiner.



But those who question or doubt the majority consensus should not be vilified purely because they are not in the majority.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I never said that. And neither did Quiner.

Lol.
I love how you're now moaning about being misrepresented, yet that's what you've been doing for the last while.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

But those who question or doubt the majority consensus should not be vilified purely because they are not in the majority.

Alternatively..

Flat-earthers who play this victim card aren't mavericks, nor are Covid deniers, 9/11 truthers, 5G theorists, etc

They are typically ignorant people with low critical thinking who attack substantiated facts in order to replace them with vague baseless theories. They don't "question everything" because they don't question their own theories. They regularly vilify anyone who disagrees with their extreme beliefs ("sheeple"). They regularly trash experts, shun science and deny history. The mainstream press has revealed more real conspiracies than these individuals ever have.

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Alternatively..

Flat-earthers who play this victim card aren't mavericks, nor are Covid deniers, 9/11 truthers, 5G theorists, etc

They are typically ignorant people with low critical thinking who attack substantiated facts in order to replace them with vague baseless theories. They don't "question everything" because they don't question their own theories. They regularly vilify anyone who disagrees with their extreme beliefs ("sheeple"). They regularly trash experts, shun science and deny history. The mainstream press has revealed more real conspiracies than these individuals ever have.

If you don't like what someone has to say don't listen

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

If you don't like what someone has to say don't listen

'please don't pull us up on our lies'

This isn't a safe space for lunatics to spout nonsense. Expect to be challenged. Healthy debate should be welcomed.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

If you don't like what someone has to say don't listen

So people aren't allowed to disagree with conspiracy theories?
Those kind of opinions should be silenced?

GT89

runawaybishop wrote: »

'please don't pull us up on our lies'

This isn't a safe space for lunatics to spout nonsense. Expect to be challenged. Healthy debate should be welcomed.

But it's not true that everyone who does not nessecarily buy into the government mantra regarding covid is some sort of conspiracy theorist, flat earth type. I believe the covid narrative has been exaggerated I don't know what the motive is but I do believe it is exaggerated.

It's not that people don't think covid is real I know there are some but really I think this is only an illness that effects the elderly and vulnerable severly and even at that most elderly or vulnerable who get it are not that severly effected.

JizzBeans

The original post in this thread is spreading misinformation about vaccines and encouraging breaking travel restrictions, why is still up? Do mods only take down what ever they feel like or whats the story?

GT89

JizzBeans wrote: »

The original post in this thread is spreading misinformation about vaccines and encouraging breaking travel restrictions, why is still up? Do mods only take down what ever they feel like or whats the story?

Why can people not just adopt a live and let live approach if people want to travel wherever the hell they like they should be allowed. If others are scared sh1tless of covid then stay at home simple as. There should be no need for travel restrictions.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

It's not that people don't think covid is real I know there are some .

Several people here have been arguing exactly this and have claimed that the virus is entirely fake.

GT89 wrote: »

but really I think this is only an illness that effects the elderly and vulnerable severly and even at that most elderly or vulnerable who get it are not that severly effected.

But this isn't true.
Covid has killed 1.7 million people.

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

Several people here have been arguing exactly this and have claimed that the virus is entirely fake.

True

But this isn't true.
Covid has killed 1.7 million people.

And what percentage of those had underlying health conditions or were elderly and given different countries report deaths differently it's likely inaccurate. Also some countries incliding Ireland and the UK have erased covid deaths and brought the count down so it is not accurate.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

True

And why do you believe people believe these things?

GT89 wrote: »

And what percentage of those had underlying health conditions or were elderly

Why not tell us? You're the one who believes this number is being inflated by a vast global conspiracy.

Also, why would that matter?
Sick and elderly people are still people.

GT89 wrote: »

and given different countries report deaths differently it's likely inaccurate.
Also some countries incliding Ireland and the UK have erased covid deaths and brought the count down so it is not accurate.

Simple lies on your part.

Not sure why you believe in your conspiracy when you have to make things up.

JizzBeans

GT89 wrote: »

Why can people not just adopt a live and let live approach if people want to travel wherever the hell they like they should be allowed. If others are scared sh1tless of covid then stay at home simple as. There should be no need for travel restrictions.

I suppose you are entitled to your opinion.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

And what percentage of those had underlying health conditions or were elderly and given different countries report deaths differently it's likely inaccurate. Also some countries incliding Ireland and the UK have erased covid deaths and brought the count down so it is not accurate.

"The numbers are wrong according to me"

1.7 mm is an estimate. It's based on all the figures provided by each country in the world. Some are considered to have over-estimated (e.g. Belgium), some have considered to have underestimated (e.g. UK in the beginning of the pandemic)

It's an estimate by each individual country tallied up, done in a feasible way.

Because it's an estimate any pedant or denialist can endlessly pick at it. If you aren't engaging in either, what is your estimate and how have you arrived at those figures?

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

And why do you believe people believe these things?

Ask them not me. I think though it's because there is a lack of trust in the media

Why not tell us? You're the one who believes this number is being inflated by a vast global conspiracy.

Also, why would that matter?
Sick and elderly people are still people.

I don't know I don't have the full facts as they have not been provided to me. And when did I say sick and elderly people were not people. Sick and elderly people should be protected and the rest of us whom covid does not provide a great deal of risk for should be allowed to get on with our lives as normal.

Simple lies on your part.

Not sure why you believe in your conspiracy when you have to make things up.

It isn't lies the death toll in England was reduced by 5,000 back in August. Did those 5,000 people rise from the dead?
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53722711

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"The numbers are wrong according to me"

1.7 mm is an estimate. It's based on all the figures provided by each country in the world. Some are considered to have over-estimated (e.g. Belgium), some have considered to have underestimated (e.g. UK in the beginning of the pandemic)

It's an estimate by each individual country tallied up, done in a feasible way.

Because it's an estimate any pedant or denialist can endlessly pick at it. If you aren't engaging in either, what is your estimate and how have you arrived at those figures?

So it's an estimate not fact that covid has killed 1.7 million people

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Ask them not me. I think though it's because there is a lack of trust in the media

Why would a lack of trust in the media lead them to believe that the virus was fake?
Why did you not start believing this as you don't trust the media?

GT89 wrote: »

I don't know I don't have the full facts as they have not been provided to me.

Then how do you the numbers are inflated?

GT89 wrote: »

And when did I say sick and elderly people were not people. Sick and elderly people should be protected and the rest of us whom covid does not provide a great deal of risk for should be allowed to get on with our lives as normal.

Then why did you bring up old and sick people to deny the fact that 1.7 million people had died?
What relevance is it to the number if all of them where sick and old people?
You agree that the number isn't lessened.

GT89 wrote: »

It isn't lies the death toll in Engalnd was reduced by 5,000 back in August
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53722711

Yes. And that has been taken into account in the figure of 1.7 million.

The current figure is:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
1,761,366 deaths.

So even if we take 5000 from that, the number is still 1.7 million, so the number is still accurate.
Hence you lied.

If you have a more accurate figure, please supply it.
So far every other conspiracy theorist has run away from this.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

So it's an estimate not fact that covid has killed 1.7 million people

It's a fact that current estimates are 1.7. You don't seem to understand that.

Are there better estimates to go on? if so, what are they, please share, and the methodology.

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

Then how do you the numbers are inflated?

Tell us how many died with covid and how many died of covid. Excess mortality rate in Ireland was only 876 to 1,192 from March to September despite the death toll from covid being somewhere around 1,800 at that time. So simply take covid death figures from the excess mortality figures to find out the true rate. Bear in mind excess mortality can fluctuate from year to year as well.

Then why did you bring up old and sick people to deny the fact that 1.7 million people had died?
What relevance is it to the number if all of them where sick and old people?
You agree that the number isn't lessened.

I know that most people who die are in a vulnerable category how many would have died anyway even if they didn't catch covid that is not reported.

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a fact that current estimates are 1.7. You don't seem to understand that.

Are there better estimates to go on? if so, what are they, please share, and the methodology.

Lets maybe stop reporting on death figures and case numbers. If there was a bad pandemic doing the rounds you'd see it in your families I'm they didn't need these types of figures during the bubonic plague.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Tell us how many died with covid and how many died of covid.

1.7 million people died due to covid.

If you have a more accurate number, provide it.
However since you ignored the question like every other conspiracy theorist, I believe that you can't provide a more accurate number and that you aren't honest enough to admit this.

GT89 wrote: »

I know that most people who die are in a vulnerable category how many would have died anyway even if they didn't catch covid that is not reported.

Why would that matter? They're still people.
1.7 million people have died due to covid regardless of how you want to deny and minimize the number.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

Lets maybe stop reporting on death figures and case numbers. If there was a bad pandemic doing the rounds you'd see it in your families I'm they didn't need these types of figures during the bubonic plague.

Like the Utopia that is Tanzania that a particular poster keeps banging on about?

Bubonic plague 1665-66 :rolleyes:

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

1.7 million people died due to covid.

If you have a more accurate number, provide it.
However since you ignored the question like every other conspiracy theorist, I believe that you can't provide a more accurate number and that you aren't honest enough to admit this.

As I said I don't agree with posting figures. Stop testing people for covid and there would be zero deaths it's not relevant information.

Why would that matter? They're still people.
1.7 million people have died due to covid regardless of how you want to deny and minimize the number.

Because then they did not die of covid and they probably would have died anyway. People die all the time and we don't lock down the country because of it.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

As I said I don't agree with posting figures. Stop testing people for covid and there would be zero deaths it's not relevant information.



Because then they did not die of covid and they would have died anyway. People die all the time and we don't lock down the country because of it.

People die and health systems are set up to deal with those illnesses/deaths because they know the average number of people who will die every year.

A pandemic comes along and you suddenly have thousands of extra illnesses and deaths that the system was not built to cater for.

You would swear it was rocket science the way some of you go on here.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

Lets maybe stop reporting on death figures and case numbers. If there was a bad pandemic doing the rounds you'd see it in your families I'm they didn't need these types of figures during the bubonic plague.

Jesus christ..

We need to have estimates of the number of cases and figures in order to decide how and what measures to take in order to reduce virus numbers to a manageable level. Some of these measures we are taking have a drastic impact on the economy, the whole thing is a constant balancing act between saving the economy and saving people's lives

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

As I said I don't agree with posting figures.

Lol. Funny that. Sounds exactly like an excuse for not being able to produce any evidence to support your conspiracy theory.

GT89 wrote: »

Stop testing people for covid and there would be zero deaths

Lol.

GT89 wrote: »

Because then they did not die of covid and they would have died anyway. People die all the time and we don't lock down the country because of it.

But they did die of covid.
1.7 million people have died due to covid.

You want to pretend that they didn't.
Why do you want to pretend this?

Dohnjoe

Once again the crystal clear correlation between ignorance of the pandemic and denial/conspiracies about the pandemic

The two go hand in hand