All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Timberrrrrrrr

King Mob wrote: »

Lol. Funny that. Sounds exactly like an excuse for not being able to produce any evidence to support your conspiracy theory.


Lol.


But they did die of covid.
1.7 million people have died due to covid.

You want to pretend that they didn't.
Why do you want to pretend this?

Its like saying 6 million Jews didn't die in the holocaust because they would have died eventually anyway.

King Mob

BTW.
71 pages.
1000 posts.

0 coherent conspiracy theories.

GT89

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

People die and health systems are set up to deal with those illnesses/deaths because they know the average number of people who will die every year.

A pandemic comes along and you suddenly have thousands of extra illnesses and deaths that the system was not built to cater for.

You would swear it was rocket science the way some of you go on here.

Look at the Nightingale hospitals in the UK that are empty. Systems can adapt and change our road system was not built to cater for the demand that's there now.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Look at the Nightingale hospitals in the UK that are empty. Systems can adapt and change our road system was not built to cater for the demand that's there now.

Instead of pointing to all the talking points you're parroting from twitter, why not just post the accurate number for covid deaths?

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

But they did die of covid.
1.7 million people have died due to covid.

You want to pretend that they didn't.
Why do you want to pretend this?

Look at the excess mortality rates were there 1.7 million more deaths in 2020 than in 2019 show me proof

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

Look at the Nightingale hospitals in the UK that are empty. Systems can adapt and change our road system was not built to cater for the demand that's there now.

Yes, and thank **** they are (so far) empty.

It's called contingency, it's better to have too many hospitals than too few, and those Nightingale hospitals were built at a time when the virus was new, cases were going through the roof, and many countries were frantically trying to get extra capacity for hospitals.

Our health system becoming overwhelmed is an unthinkable scenario, but it became plausible this year, some countries came extremely close and we aren't out of the woods yet. Imagine being involved in a car crash and there are literally no ambulances to get you, there is no space because every hospital is full. That is a genuine scenario, yet we have all these conspiracy theorists spreading fear and ignorance about to whole thing to plug imaginary conspiracies that don't exist.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Look at the excess mortality rates were there 1.7 million more deaths in 2020 than in 2019 show me proof

Posted it before:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

There you go.

And the more accurate number is:...?
And the source for that is....?

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

Instead of pointing to all the talking points you're parroting from twitter, why not just post the accurate number for covid deaths?

Because there is not an accurate number. Again give me the number of excess deaths in 2020 and you'll find out an accurate number as to how many people are actually dying of covid.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Because there is not an accurate number. Again give me the number of excess deaths in 2020 and you'll find out an accurate number as to how many people are actually dying of covid.

Again:
Here's the number: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Provide yours and your source.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

Look at the excess mortality rates were there 1.7 million more deaths in 2020 than in 2019 show me proof

"Prove to me 1.7 million died"

1.7 mm are the current estimates, accepted worldwide. You can reference the information for each country yourself, and decide whether or not that you personally, a lay-person, subjectively accepts or rejects it for whatever reasons

However if you are going to claim those estimates are wrong, then you need to provide your estimates with the methodology behind it. Otherwise that's just denialism.

Dohnjoe

Are we having another Holocaust denial thread because I see all the same faulty logic being employed here.

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

Posted it before:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

There you go.

And the more accurate number is:...?
And the source for that is....?

Show me the excess death figures instead of the covid figures

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

Show me the excess death figures instead of the covid figures

"Prove the facts to me, otherwise the world is wrong"

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"Prove to me 1.7 million died"

1.7 mm are the current estimates, accepted worldwide. You can reference the information for each country yourself, and decide whether or not that you personally, a lay-person, subjectively accepts or rejects it for whatever reasons

However if you are going to claim those estimates are wrong, then you need to provide your estimates with the methodology behind it. Otherwise that's just denialism.

Here's the more accurate figures for Ireland at least between March and September
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175417-excess-mortality-rate/

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Show me the excess death figures instead of the covid figures

So to show you the number of people who died due to covid, I shouldn't show you the number of deaths due to covid?

Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

This sudden fixation of excess death figures is simply a tactic for conspiracy cranks on twitter to twist statistics in their favour.

If you believe that the excess death figure will provide a more accurate figure for the deaths due to covid, you're welcome to find that information.

Meanwhile, I and the vast majority of doctors, medical workers and medical institutions are all in agreement with the estimate of 1.75+ million deaths.

Why do you believe all of these medical experts are wrong?
Is it because they're in on the conspiracy?

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Here's the more accurate figures for Ireland at least between March and September
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175417-excess-mortality-rate/

Did you not read that article?

However, he was also keen to point out that the explanation could be more complicated than that.

For instance, people's behaviour changed enormously during the Covid-19 lockdown periods which could have affected mortality trends.

There were far fewer people in the workplace while people were working from home. Could that have resulted in fewer workplace accidents?

There was less traffic on the roads. Did that mean fewer road deaths?
People engaged in social distancing. Did that result in fewer deaths from other infectious diseases including the flu and other illnesses?

Against that, fewer people came forward for treatment and screening for serious diseases such as cancer as many hospital services were suspended. Did that, or will that, result in more non-Covid-19 deaths occurring?

We don't know the answer to all these questions yet. It is going to take some time to get all the information and data together, especially when up to three months is allowed for a death to be officially registered in Ireland.

.....


Taking the first seven months of the pandemic together the CSO calculations found that the cumulative number of deaths occurring was 876 more that during the same months of 2019.

If it was compared to average death toll for the same months over the previous two years the excess deaths amounted to 887.

When it is compared to the average of the previous three years the excess death total is 1,192.

The CSO said its new analysis "appears to indicate" that the Department of Health data on coronavirus-related deaths "comprehensively captures" the impact of Covid-19 on mortality in Ireland.

Dohnjoe

Quick google anything that can cast doubt on global Covid death estimates

Makes zero effort to provide better global estimates

Almost as if there's an agenda behind it...

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

So to show you the number of people who died due to covid, I shouldn't show you the number of deaths due to covid?

Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

This sudden fixation of excess death figures is simply a tactic for conspiracy cranks on twitter to twist statistics in their favour.

If you believe that the excess death figure will provide a more accurate figure for the deaths due to covid, you're welcome to find that information.

Meanwhile, I and the vast majority of doctors, medical workers and medical institutions are all in agreement with the estimate of 1.75+ million deaths.

Why do you believe all of these medical experts are wrong?
Is it because they're in on the conspiracy?

I believe excess mortality rates would be a more accurate figure as that shows how many more people are actually dying. Maybe the "conspiracy cranks" on twitter are right. I'm not a conspiracy crank all I want is to be able to live a normal life free of covid restrictions surely that's not a conspiracy theory.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

I believe excess mortality rates would be a more accurate figure as that shows how many more people are actually dying.

Why?
If this is the case, provide this for the global figure and show the more accurate number?
Surely if you know that the figure I've given is false and fake, you must have done the research and figured out the true number using the excess death figures.
So please, post your research or a source for the figure you used.

Why do medical experts and organizations disagree with you and your assessment?

And no, people promoting mad conspiracies on twitter are not right. It's not worth considering that they "might" be right any more than they "might" be right about the mark of the beast or the plot to turn us all into cyborgs.

aido79

GT89 wrote: »

I believe excess mortality rates would be a more accurate figure as that shows how many more people are actually dying. Maybe the "conspiracy cranks" on twitter are right. I'm not a conspiracy crank all I want is to be able to live a normal life free of covid restrictions surely that's not a conspiracy theory.

So you think we should just go back to normal based on your logic that there were no extra deaths this year?

runawaybishop

aido79 wrote: »

So you think we should just go back to normal based on your logic that there were no extra deaths this year?

As has been shown already in this thread, we have had more deaths than normal. Take no need of him.

Tea drinker

wonder what the air pollution deaths are this year given that everyone is dying of covid.

He said now was the perfect time for the Government to end the burning of solid fuels – with recent evidence that long-term exposure to air pollution may increase the risk of death from Covid-19.
https://irishheart.ie/news/air-pollution-caused-1300-deaths-in-2019/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20EPA's%20annual,up%20from%201%2C180%20in%202018.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

So I'm due to get the vaccine in a few days. I'm still on the fence about it. I was asked for ALL my details...I assume to be put on some database. I really don't want to hand over my name, addressesz dob and PPS number first off. Then a bit of googling sees AFTER I get the vaccine I still have to act like I have covid...mask, social distancing etc.. I mean wtf.

GT89

When people die after taking the covid vaccine the will be but they were very old and probably would have died anyway and the vaccine didn't kill them. But when people die of covid and people like me say the same that covid didn't kill most of the people who died with covid on a death cert then it is met with "how dare you", "they could have lived for years were it not for covid", "it doesn't matter what they were" or the best one "covid can kill young people too" even though average age of covid deaths in Ireland is 84.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

When people die after taking the covid vaccine the will be but they were very old and probably would have died anyway and the vaccine didn't kill them.

Why would people die after the vaccine?
Covid can and does kill people. There's been nothing to show that the covid vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.
It's been shown that the chances of receiving any serious effects from vaccines is 10000 times less likely than dying from covid.

GT89 wrote: »

But when people die of covid and people like me say the same that covid didn't kill most of the people who died with covid on a death cert then it is met with "how dare you", "they could have lived for years were it not for covid", "it doesn't matter what they were" or the best one "covid can kill young people too" even though average age of covid deaths in Ireland is 84.

Covid has now killed 1.8 million people.

runawaybishop

Hunky Monster wrote: »

So I'm due to get the vaccine in a few days. I'm still on the fence about it. I was asked for ALL my details...I assume to be put on some database. I really don't want to hand over my name, addressesz dob and PPS number first off. Then a bit of googling sees AFTER I get the vaccine I still have to act like I have covid...mask, social distancing etc.. I mean wtf.

Effectiveness isn't instant nor is transmissibility known. Keep googling.

Allow me to assure you that the gov already have those details. It makes sense to ensure we know who has received the vaccine and who has not.

The Nal

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I really don't want to hand over my name, addressesz dob and PPS number first off.

They already know all of that. The government are the ones who gave you the PPS number in the first place! They've known your name for your entire life and they know where you live.

Actually while we're at it, Google (and lots of others including the government if they need to) know exactly where you are right now and every single place you been for the last 10 years or so, and a lot of what you've been doing, what you search for on the internet, your gender, your age, your phone number, what you buy, what sort of music you like, what sports tea, you support, where you work, what vidoes you watch, pubs you've drank in, restaurants you've eaten in, who your friends are......

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

Why would people die after the vaccine?
Covid can and does kill people. There's been nothing to show that the covid vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.
It's been shown that the chances of receiving any serious effects from vaccines is 10000 times less likely than dying from covid.

And there is no evidence that covid is any more deadly than the flu

Covid has now killed 1.8 million people.

I only think that's relevant if excess mortality was also 1.8 million for the year. The average age of covid deaths in Ireland is 84. Also China only has about double the amount of deaths Ireland if you go by the official regsiter despite having a population of 1.4 billion. Which would suggest that Western countries are either grossly exaggerating the death count or China is grossly unreporting the amount of deaths but meanwhile in Wuhan it's party time.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

And there is no evidence that covid is any more deadly than the flu

Covid is more deadly than the flu

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-19-is-far-more-lethal-damaging-than-flu-data-shows#1

Despite this, the fatality rate is not the overarching issue, the infection rate which threatens to inundate national health services is a critical issue.

I only think that's relevant if excess mortality was also 1.8 million for the year. The average age of covid deaths in Ireland is 84. Also China only has about double the amount of deaths Ireland if you go by the official regsiter despite having a population of 1.4 billion. Which would suggest that Western countries are either grossly exaggerating the death count or China is grossly unreporting the amount of deaths but meanwhile in Wuhan it's party time.

Wuhan, reportedly, does not have as many cases as other countries. Likewise, New Zealand.

The facts surrounding this virus seem to interfere with some world view you have, so you've simply resorted to denial. Unless of course you want to share the conspiracy explanation for all your doubt-casting..

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Covid is more deadly than the flu

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-19-is-far-more-lethal-damaging-than-flu-data-shows#1

Despite this, the fatality rate is not the overarching issue, the infection rate which threatens to inundate national health services is a critical issue.

Except hospitals are not inundated and healthcare workers were busy making tiktoks when they were supposed to be "overwhelmed". The CDC have said the death rate of covid is under 1% so it couldn't be that serious. Also if people are so likely to need to go to icu why aren't third world countries with underdeveloped healthcare systems worst hit.

Wuhan, reportedly, does not have as many cases as other countries. Likewise, New Zealand.

The facts surrounding this virus seem to interfere with some world view you have, so you've simply resorted to denial. Unless of course you want to share the conspiracy explanation for all your doubt-casting..

And you believe the CCP? I could believe New Zealand as it's a small country isolated from the rest of the world with a low population density but not China. I could think of a number of possible theories as to why this is happening the Chinese being one of them they are a nation that simply cannot be trusted.