All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Dohnjoe

CCP24 wrote: »

I honestly know this , my ignorance really? So now Im a CT, unhinged and ignorant now too. Cool.

Countries do not want lockdowns no **** sherlock, I& many others in this country can vouch for that.
I didnt ask for that "concept" you are pointing out to be explained , and anyhow why haven't the health ministers ever sorted out our hospitals since every year we are overrun. Wonder will they sort it out after this pandemic , seeing as we are told there will be more pandemics to come? Do you think they will sort out our overcrowding in hospitals and if they do what changes do you think they will put in place? Do you think they will privatize our hospitals?

Regarding the original question asked, https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%20201

Why did'nt we lock down in 2017/18 when clearly ICUs were critical , and hospitals were overcrowded? Why are we only having lockdowns in 2020/21 and nobody cared back then? and they weren't called ignorant for not bothering? Did we not care enough for our fellow citizens ? Why were we not taking measures to wear masks and social distance and lock ourselves in our homes.

Why are people more ignorant and selfish in 2020/21 , if they don't isolate etc and they were nice ,decent humans previous years without masks and social distancing?
Now we are locked into isolation, wearing masks , social distancing and believing everyone is carrying germs will kill you if they breathe near you? Do you think adults and children will forget this easily and go back to living like normal once the government tells us to?

Some of these points are almost incoherent

Our already stretched hospital services are being pushed to their limits due to the pandemic. This pandemic wasn't around in 2017/2018.

This conspiracy you previously mentioned, that the facts/information are somehow being manipulated in order to trick more people into getting the vaccine, can you provide the details? who is behind it? 1,000 people died of Covid in the UK today, if that's false or exaggerated, then how many really died according to your sources?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You hate politicians, we get it. What is the conspiracy here?

Is that your "go to"?



"what's the conspiracy here?"


If you are so adamant to demand a conspiracy then why are you even on this thread?


You're not a moderator so please stop trying to pull the plug. Perhaps read the thread title.


You earlier posted multiple times. Did anyone demand of you "what's the conspiracy here?" ... Unless you see yourself as some kind of gatekeeper whose function is to throttle any discussion.



I don't hate politicians. I just hate bullshitters, charlatans and hypocrites.

ShatterAlan

aido79 wrote: »

So you don't believe there was any chance that the health service could have become overwhelmed? How optimistic are you that the health service will be able to cope in the next few months?
If you reply I will bookmark your post and we'll come back to this if a situation arises where there are problems with hospital admissions in the near future.

Do you honestly believe the covid restrictions will be permanent?

I didn't say that.
I called you out on your credo that a government should have such a terrible time in telling someone "what might have been".

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Is that your "go to"?



"what's the conspiracy here?"


If you are so adamant to demand a conspiracy then why are you even on this thread?


You're not a moderator so please stop trying to pull the plug. Perhaps read the thread title.


You earlier posted multiple times. Did anyone demand of you "what's the conspiracy here?" ... Unless you see yourself as some kind of gatekeeper whose function is to throttle any discussion.



I don't hate politicians. I just hate bullshitters, charlatans and hypocrites.

Right. And what is the relevance of any of this to lockdown measures?

aido79

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I didn't say that.
I called you out on your credo that a government should have such a terrible time in telling someone "what might have been".

What do you think might have happened?
Do you think the hospitals will cope with this latest continuing rise in admissions?
Do you believe the covid restrictions are permanent? That's the reason for this thread after all. Nothing you have said belongs in this thread.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If the hospitals are full no one can get any help. It's an unthinkable scenario. We can borrow money, but we can't replace dead people when the national health system is overrun. Countries don't want to have lockdowns, but must to avoid such a scenario.

How many times does this concept have to be explained? I am sorry, but ignorance is not a valid argument against anything.

If the situation is so dire then why aren't more hospitals being put in place?


Now before you launch in and scream "HA! how long does it take to build a hospital?" I might bring your attention to a Dutch company called De Boer. The largest manufacturer of temporary buildings in the world. I remember they banged up a fully functional hospital in New Orleans in about 36 hours after Hurricane Katrina. Complete with beds, surgeries, sanitation, heating, kitchens, the lot.



They also knocked up a temporary TERMINAL building at Schiphol Airport. I passed through it. I couldn't tell the difference between it and a permanent structure.


A bunch of "hippy scumbags" treated hundreds of homeless and deprived in Apollo House in Dublin over the course of a month without any kind of federal crisis or emergency funding. People were fed, washed, had their teeth examined by volunteer dentists, their feet and general health taken care of by other qualified volunteers like nurses, chiropodists, etc.



Why can the government give 350 euros a week to hundreds of thousands of people but they can'r get on the phone and have a few hospitals erected that can ease the so-called strain on the existing health infrastructure?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

If the situation is so dire then why aren't more hospitals being put in place?

Think. We need medical professionals to staff those hospitals. With staff already stretched it's not possible to "conjure" up more.

If a country reaches it's limits, then people will start dying on hospital steps, which is unacceptable, hence lockdown measures to reduce the spread and therefore reduce strain on the entire system (to prevent it collapsing)

ShatterAlan

aido79 wrote: »

What do you think might have happened?
Do you think the hospitals will cope with this latest continuing rise in admissions?
Do you believe the covid restrictions are permanent? That's the reason for this thread after all. Nothing you have said belongs in this thread.

It's completely beside the point what I think what "would have happened".


I was responding to you when you stated:


"Sometimes I think the government has done too good of a job and people like yourself should have been shown what could have happened"


How do you know what would or could have happened in any situation anymore than some government official?


You pointed out that the government should have pointed out what would would have happened.


So I would ask you...as I tried to elucidate earlier....and I used an example, i.e. the Iraq War debacle...many opposed it yet by your logic the government should have shown what "could have happened" if people "like themselves" questioned the logic, sense, morality, legality.


To simplify....and according to your words, questioning the government is anathema because they know what the alternative is.

aido79

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Think. We need medical professionals to staff those hospitals. With staff already stretched it's not possible to "conjure" up more.

If a country reaches it's limits, then people will start dying on hospital steps, which is unacceptable, hence lockdown measures to reduce the spread and therefore reduce strain on the entire system (to prevent it collapsing)

I think he's implying we get the "hippy scumbags" to staff the hospitals

aido79

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It's completely beside the point what I think what "would have happened".


I was responding to you when you stated:


"Sometimes I think the government has done too good of a job and people like yourself should have been shown what could have happened"


How do you know what would or could have happened in any situation anymore than some government official?


You pointed out that the government should have pointed out what would would have happened.


So I would ask you...as I tried to elucidate earlier....and I used an example, i.e. the Iraq War debacle...many opposed it yet by your logic the government should have shown what "could have happened" if people "like themselves" questioned the logic, sense, morality, legality.


To simplify....and according to your words, questioning the government is anathema because they know what the alternative is.

The government based their assessment on what was happening in other countries such as Italy and the US whose healthcare systems were really struggling.
Prevention is always better than cure so why wait until things get really bad before reacting to it?

But being a conspiracy theorist you probably don't believe those things even happened in other countries.

runawaybishop

ShatterAlan wrote: »

If the situation is so dire then why aren't more hospitals being put in place?


Now before you launch in and scream "HA! how long does it take to build a hospital?"

Doesn't matter how long they take to build, you can't magic up trained icu staff.

We have added surge capacity, but we are limited by trained staff. Icu, obviously, requires highly trained specialist staff.

Dohnjoe

runawaybishop wrote: »

Doesn't matter how long they take to build, you can't magic up trained icu staff.

We have added surge capacity, but we are limited by trained staff. Icu, obviously, requires highly trained specialist staff.

"They can just train up some nurses, can't be too hard"
"They can import foreign doctors, from New Zealand, no Covid there, they have plenty to spare"
"There was a Spanish flu pandemic before, we dealt with it then, life went on, some people die, we'll deal with it now, no biggie"

I've been on this forum so long I can already guess what the responses will be

runawaybishop

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"They can just train up some nurses, can't be too hard"
"They can import foreign doctors, from New Zealand, no Covid there, they have plenty to spare"
"There was a Spanish flu pandemic before, we dealt with it then, life went on, some people die, we'll deal with it now, no biggie"

I've been on this forum so long I can already guess what the responses will be

Usually when refuted with actual facts they move the 'discussion' on to something else. Might be time for 'the vaccine is bad mkay'. What will we see next on the conspiracy wheel of whacky claims!

King Mob

runawaybishop wrote: »

Usually when refuted with actual facts they move the 'discussion' on to something else. Might be time for 'the vaccine is bad mkay'. What will we see next on the conspiracy wheel of whacky claims!

Something along the lines of "why are they worried about overcrowding anyway, sure they have their vaccine now. I'm not going to be taking it... Something something guinea pigs... Something something narcolepsy."

GT89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Think. We need medical professionals to staff those hospitals. With staff already stretched it's not possible to "conjure" up more.

If a country reaches it's limits, then people will start dying on hospital steps, which is unacceptable, hence lockdown measures to reduce the spread and therefore reduce strain on the entire system (to prevent it collapsing)

Think about it if there was a severe plague going on the health system would have been rendered useless long ago. The virus has been in the country well over a year now at this stage and has yet to overwhelm the health system.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

Think about it if there was a severe plague going on the health system would have been rendered useless long ago. The virus has been in the country well over a year now at this stage and has yet to overwhelm the health system.

This virus is not a plague, when you understand that you will understand why you are wrong!

GT89

EyesClosed wrote: »

You do realise politicians get elected in right? If you don't like the person... Don't vote for them

I didnt vote for them. Ironically enough none of the current shower in government won the election. Sinn Fein won remember?

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

Think about it if there was a severe plague going on the health system would have been rendered useless long ago. The virus has been in the country well over a year now at this stage and has yet to overwhelm the health system.

Ok. So you don't believe covid exists.

How severe do you believe it really is and what are you using to reach this conclusion beyond your personal untrained, ill-informed opinion of how health care works?

GT89

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This virus is not a plague

Tell that to the fear mongering media and the government. The way they carry on you'd swear it was the bubonic plague.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

Tell that to the fear mongering media and the government. The way they carry you'd swear it was the bubonic plague.

Curse those bastàrds for giving out good advice to the population, poor sheep can't see the "real" agenda like you and your Facebook/Youtube experts hey? :rolleyes:

GT89

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Curse those bastàrds for giving out good advice to the population, poor sheep can't see the "real" agenda like you and your Facebook/Youtube experts hey? :rolleyes:

Look at Belarus no lockdown no masks no problem. The government advice obivously isn't good enough if cases are still going up.

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

Think about it if there was a severe plague going on the health system would have been rendered useless long ago. The virus has been in the country well over a year now at this stage and has yet to overwhelm the health system.

This is manifestly untrue. Health systems all over the world have been overwhelmed. After months of doing pretty well we are also close to that stage

How about you 'think about it' for a while. Because you clearly haven't been.

arccosh

GT89 wrote: »

The virus has been in the country well over a year now at this stage and has yet to overwhelm the health system.

Thanks to lockdown measures, intervention steps by the HSE outside of lockdowns, and increased hygiene by all visitors, staff and patients...

arccosh

GT89 wrote: »

T

I'm glad you agree

GT89

arccosh wrote: »

Thanks to lockdown measures, intervention steps by the HSE outside of lockdowns, and increased hygiene by all visitors, staff and patients...

Virus was here well before last March. Leo even said it's been here since December 2019 so why weren't our hospitals overwhelmed in December, January and February 2019/20.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

Look at Belarus no lockdown no masks no problem

Orrrrrrrrr

Maybe they lied?

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3543

Plagued by political turmoil over “Europe’s last dictatorship” and with a president in denial of covid-19, how has Belarus ended up with one of the lowest death rates on the continent?

With 11 hospital beds per 1000 people, Belarus outnumbers nations like Germany (8) or the UK (2.5).1 “It’s usually a problem because it takes a lot of money to maintain them, but it turned into our advantage in this situation,” says Vitushka, who is also an intensive care physician in Belarus.

Another factor is that Belarus has very few care homes (203 beds per 100 000 of the population compared with 854 in the UK), with most elderly citizens living separately.10 This has helped shield its most vulnerable. “In many cases in Belarus, you have already had some isolation of elderly people, particularly in the countryside or in single flats” says Nilsson.

Nilsson says Belarus also benefited from being a relatively isolated country where the government can easily shut down borders and monitor those passing through. “People tend to go in the other direction,” he says, “Very few people will go to Belarus for holidays or work.”

Although the low death numbers are encouraging, some experts fear that many coronavirus related deaths are registered as cases of pneumonia—UN data show a difference of 5605 between April-June 2019 compared with the same period in 2020.11 And the deaths per capita ratio remains one of the highest in Europe. Nilson is cautious, “Until we have the figures for excess deaths, I don’t want to praise Belarus too much.”

North Korea has zero cases (according to them) do you believe them?

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

Look at Belarus no lockdown no masks no problem. The government advice obivously isn't good enough if cases are still going up.

This is, quite simply, a lie.

Belarus closed their borders, introduced mandatory quarantine, have compulsory mask requirements, social distancing and also require a covid negative test in entering the country. They have over 4 times the hospital beds per capita the UK have.

Heres a conspiracy for you. Belarus are falsifying stats. They are reporting deaths as heart issues and flu, but their excess mortality is up on 6k, aside from acknowledged covid deaths. They are also deliberately infecting protestors with covid and refusing them medical care.

arccosh

GT89 wrote: »

Virus was here well before last March. Leo even said it's been here since December 2019 so why weren't our hospitals overwhelmed in December, January and February 2019/20.

because with any new virus there is a period of inertia before it gains momentum ... low infected numbers take time to incubate and infect others, and rinse and repeat.... you usually see exponential growth after 2 or 3 weeks... exponential is still slow at the start though... 1,2,4,8,16.....

your rationale is assuming the first cases were people who were high infectors and within the hospitalisation risk group....

when in fact the first hospital case could have been the nanny of the cousin of the friend of the wife of the uncle who works in the global company who met that dude in a business meeting 5 weeks back and everyone else in the chain was asymptomatic...

I'd love if your simplistic view of it all was true.... but it's not unfortunately

arccosh

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is, quite simply, a lie.

Belarus closed their borders, introduced mandatory quarantine, have compulsory mask requirements, social distancing and also require a covid negative test in entering the country. They have over 4 times the hospital beds per capita the UK have.

Heres a conspiracy for you. Belarus are falsifying stats. They are reporting deaths as heart issues and flu, but their excess mortality is up on 6k, aside from acknowledged covid deaths. They are also deliberately infecting protestors with covid and refusing them medical care.

also.... trusting Belarus for facts is like trusting that junk ball on O'Connell street with your wallet

GT89

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is, quite simply, a lie.

Belarus closed their borders, introduced mandatory quarantine, have compulsory mask requirements, social distancing and also require a covid negative test in entering the country. They have over 4 times the hospital beds per capita the UK have.

Heres a conspiracy for you. Belarus are falsifying stats. They are reporting deaths as heart issues and flu, but their excess mortality is up on 6k, aside from acknowledged covid deaths. They are also deliberately infecting protestors with covid and refusing them medical care.

Yeah and their country is fine. If the government want to falsify cases and deaths I say so be it if it means no more bullsh1t lockdowns.