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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #1682
    aido79
    Registered Users Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    This:
    So asking if someone died from covid19 or with covid19 is like asking if someone died from Aids or with Aids.

    Is the death of everyone who has AIDS at the time of death registered as a death from AIDS?
    Now ask yourself the same question about Covid 19.

    Possibly not in all cases but that doesn't mean it didn't contribute to their death.

    Anyway back on topic. What measures do you think are going to be permanent?


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    #1683
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Read your post again.

    You say

    “The issue is the significant number of dead people over and above what is normal”

    Lockdowns are not normal.

    A virus comes along last March and we lock down (because of what we saw in Italy)
    We still had a significant number of dead people over and above what is normal for Apr and May.
    The reason they died is not because of Covid.
    The reason they died is because of the lockdown.

    Is that an accurate reflection of what you think?

    If so then please explain how the lockdown killed people?
    The deaths were concentrated towards the older age groups, and many lived in nursing homes.
    How did the lockdown actually kill them?


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    #1684
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    PintOfView wrote: »
    A virus comes along last March and we lock down (because of what we saw in Italy)
    We still had a significant number of dead people over and above what is normal for Apr and May.
    The reason they died is not because of Covid.
    The reason they died is because of the lockdown.

    Is that an accurate reflection of what you think?

    If so then please explain how the lockdown killed people?
    The deaths were concentrated towards the older age groups, and many lived in nursing homes.
    How did the lockdown actually kill them?

    Going to make a guess here on the kind of response you'll get..

    "Yeah, some died of Covid, but people die of seasonal flu, it happens. It's not just as many as the government say it is, and, as we've seen, their methods are flawed. This is all part of a wider effort to fear-monger a virus which really isn't much worse than a bad cold"

    Calling it now


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    #1685
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No they aren't at all.

    All these measures are common sense methods to reduce the spread of a highly infectious disease. Honestly it's very simple stuff that even children can understand.

    Conspiracy theorists don't think of it that way. They work in a different sphere altogether. They think that governments around the world are "using" the virus to put in place authoritarian measures to "control" people. They fantasize these measures will be permanent for nefarious reasons, which is why we have threads like this.



    A mask reduces the spread of the virus. Nothing to do with politics, world views, conspiracies or anything.
    You aren't responding to what I wrote, nevermind.
    How will wearing a mask stop gobsh1tes gobbing on the streets, that was
    what timberr's proposed it would. You are answering a point neither of us brought up.

    Officals are saying things will not go back to normal => the premise of the thread is in part correct


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    #1686
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    King Mob wrote: »
    And has been explained to you, this isn't happening with covid.
    It's a lie made up by conspiracy theorists.

    Why are you not providing the real numbers?
    Why are you dodging this point?

    Can you provide proof that people dying from heart attacks with mild covid19 are not being logged as covid19 deaths?

    Fwiw, doctors are not able to deal with non covid19 issues due to covid19 and likely the small numbers of people dying with covid19 not from it don't matter a sh*te. Covid19 is destroying the HSE as a service because it's a dangerous contagious disease.


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    #1687
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Tea drinker wrote: »
    Officals are saying things will not go back to normal => the premise of the thread is in part correct

    I think you are conflating two separate things. There will be permanent future changes due to the pandemic e.g. more people working from home in the future. That doesn't have anything to do with the premise of this thread (that measures to tackle the virus will be deliberately made permanent for nefarious reasons)


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    #1688
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    PintOfView wrote: »
    A virus comes along last March and we lock down (because of what we saw in Italy)
    We still had a significant number of dead people over and above what is normal for Apr and May.
    The reason they died is not because of Covid.
    The reason they died is because of the lockdown.

    Is that an accurate reflection of what you think?

    If so then please explain how the lockdown killed people?
    The deaths were concentrated towards the older age groups, and many lived in nursing homes.
    How did the lockdown actually kill them?

    Of course some excess death will be attributable to lockdown. You seem intent on monopolising every excess death as a Covid death to justify lockdown.
    That isn’t the case.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #1689
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    aido79 wrote: »
    Possibly not in all cases but that doesn't mean it didn't contribute to their death.

    Anyway back on topic. What measures do you think are going to be permanent?


    Have the WHO mandated that all deaths of people who die that have AIDS at time of death are recorded as having died from AIDS?

    What I have been saying all along is confirmed here

    https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #1690
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Have the WHO mandated that all deaths of people who die that have AIDS at time of death are recorded as having died from AIDS?

    What I have been saying all along is confirmed here

    https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

    It's not. Did you even watch it? Covid positive death will be confirmed as such until a coroner's report confirms covid wasnt the cause and the notice will be denotified.

    As per who guidelines, which we are following.


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    #1691
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    SafeSurfer wrote: »

    What I have been saying all along is confirmed here

    https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

    No, in the example given in that clip, an asymptomatic person with Covid dying of a heart attack, they will initially be recorded as a death as a result of Covid until the coroners report comes through (to confirm that it was a death by heart attack)


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    #1692
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No, in the example given in that clip, an asymptomatic person with Covid dying of a heart attack, they will initially be recorded as a death as a result of Covid until the coroners report comes through (to confirm that it was a death by heart attack)

    So many times conspiracy theorists post links that they think confirm their theory but they actually refute it. It's like deliberate self-sabotage. Weird as hell.


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    #1693
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    It's not. Did you even watch it? Covid positive death will be confirmed as such until a coroner's report confirms covid wasnt the cause and the notice will be denotified.

    As per who guidelines, which we are following.


    Progress. Excellent.

    Now one last step.

    How many Covid deaths have been denotified since the start of the pandemic?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #1694
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Progress. Excellent.

    Now one last step.

    How many Covid deaths have been denotified since the start of the pandemic?

    Claiming your losses are wins eh?

    It's your claim, you tell us.


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    #1695
    aido79
    Registered Users Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Have the WHO mandated that all deaths of people who die that have AIDS at time of death are recorded as having died from AIDS?

    What I have been saying all along is confirmed here

    https://youtu.be/4ZolPvWW8oo

    I don't blame you for not wanting to actually watch the video and listen to Michael McNamara. He is extremely hard to listen to and even harder to take seriously.


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    #1696
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Progress. Excellent.

    Now one last step.

    How many Covid deaths have been denotified since the start of the pandemic?

    There's no progress. You are claiming that is a vast conspiracy going on which you refuse to give details of or answer questions on. On top of that you are engaging in denial of death estimates without providing your own. Constantly at square one.


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    #1697
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    How many Covid deaths have been denotified since the start of the pandemic?
    That's a great question that I've been asking you repeatedly.

    For some odd reason you are afraid of the question and have to pretend it doesn't exist.

    What do you believe is the answer and where did you get this number?
    What is the accurate figure for covid deaths and where did you get this number?

    Why do you have to keep ignoring this question?


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    #1698
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    Can you provide proof that people dying from heart attacks with mild covid19 are not being logged as covid19 deaths?
    Already done so.

    What is the accurate figure according to you and where are you getting it from?
    Please provide a link to your source.


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    #1699
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Of course some excess death will be attributable to lockdown. You seem intent on monopolising every excess death as a Covid death to justify lockdown.
    That isn’t the case.

    Well you just have to ask yourself, would we have had excess deaths if we didn't have covid?
    The answer to that is clearly no. So all excess deaths are as a result of covid, either directly, or indirectly.

    As regards justifying lockdown, what was/is the alternative?

    If we didn't lockdown last year what do you think would have happened?
    Would the virus magically have disappeared? or would the deaths have increased?

    If we didn't lockdown 4 weeks ago what would have happened?
    Would the numbers have fallen from 8,000/day to near 1,000 per day? or would they have increased?

    Answer those questions honestly, even if only to yourself!


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    #1700
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    PintOfView wrote: »
    If we didn't lockdown 4 weeks ago what would have happened?
    Would the numbers have fallen from 8,000/day to near 1,000 per day?
    Yes, actually. They probably would have fallen anyway.


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    #1701
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Yes, actually. They probably would have fallen anyway.
    And this is based on...?


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    #1702
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    King Mob wrote: »
    And this is based on...?
    The fact that they were already turning, along with the fact that so-called "lockdowns" don't work. What evidence have you that the so-called "lockdown" brought the numbers down?

    None. That's the evidence that you have.


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    #1703
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    The fact that they were already turning,
    Evidence for this?
    Risteard81 wrote: »
    along with the fact that so-called "lockdowns" don't work. What evidence have you that the so-called "lockdown" brought the numbers down?

    None. That's the evidence that you have.
    If you say so.

    So what's the real reason for the lockdowns since they don't work and have no effect?


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    #1704
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    The fact that they were already turning, along with the fact that so-called "lockdowns" don't work. What evidence have you that the so-called "lockdown" brought the numbers down?

    None. That's the evidence that you have.

    You believe Satan is behind this right..


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    #1705
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No, in the example given in that clip, an asymptomatic person with Covid dying of a heart attack, they will initially be recorded as a death as a result of Covid until the coroners report comes through (to confirm that it was a death by heart attack)

    Show your proof that it doesn't get logged as a covid19 death!


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    #1706
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    Show your proof that it doesn't get logged as a covid19 death!

    It's stated in the video.

    Why would a coroner "pretend" otherwise?


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    #1707
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    King Mob wrote: »
    Evidence for this?


    If you say so.

    So what's the real reason for the lockdowns since they don't work and have no effect?
    To be seen to be doing something to satisfy the baying mobs on Facebook, Twitter and other social media regardless of whether they achieve anything positive or not. It's better to be seen to be saving lives even if it means killing people unnecessarily, as people are expendable to these élites.


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    #1708
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You believe Satan is behind this right..
    I recognise that it is Satanic. That doesn't mean that it's not so-called excuses for "humans" who are responsible for it.


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    #1709
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    To be seen to be doing something to satisfy the baying mobs on Facebook, Twitter and other social media regardless of whether they achieve anything positive or not. It's better to be seen to be saving lives even if it means killing people unnecessarily, as people are expendable to these élites.
    So globally all politicians experts and doctors are all involved in this deception?

    Also why would they need to do this since apparently all of the covid deaths are being faked/exaggerated? Why would they need to be seen saving lives when they also want people to look like they're dying when neither of these things is happening?

    What if you, an internet detective with no medical expertise and an irrational belief in satanic conspiracies is actually wrong about a medical topic you only read about in twitter and YouTube?
    What if lockdowns and reducing contact with people also reduces a virus that is passed through contact?


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    #1710
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    Just listen to Leo in this clip.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4okLi-ShMHc

    Lockdowns for the forseeable future and we don't know if the vaccine will be enough to stop the lockdowns.

    This looks like a world reset to me.

    Is covid actually that bad to warrant this?


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    #1711
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    I recognise that it is Satanic. That doesn't mean that it's not so-called excuses for "humans" who are responsible for it.

    Satanic in what way? what's the source of this virus according to you, what is created?


This discussion has been closed.
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