All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

King Mob

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And the circle begins again :rolleyes:

The numbers are being inflated... > Here's one case where a guy fell off a ladder > The hospitals are empty > Where's the flu > The vaccine is bad > The numbers are being inflated...

sabat

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And the circle begins again :rolleyes:

I genuinely love to know. Whoever is responsible for eradicating it must be a dead cert for the Nobel prize in medicine.

runawaybishop

sabat wrote: »

I genuinely

You are not being genuine. This information is widely available.

King Mob

sabat wrote: »

I genuinely love to know. Whoever is responsible for eradicating it must be a dead cert for the Nobel prize in medicine.

This has been explained to you several times.
You know what the answer is.

You don't accept it. That's fine. We aren't able to convince people away from irrational religious belief.

So please explain what you believe is the answer.
Or are you unable to give one because: 1) your beliefs are that shallow and empty that you don't have an alternative or 2) because you do believe something, but you're afraid of outlining it because of how silly and easily disprovable it is.

PintOfView

sabat wrote: »

Where's the flu gone?

What makes you think the flu is gone?

The flu symptoms are broadly similar to covid, temperature, headache, etc.
I haven't looked it up but if only 8% of people getting tested for covid come back positive, doesn't it stand to reason that a percentage of the rest could have the flu?

Or are you saying that there is no covid, and people are dying from the flu?

Or are you saying that no more people than normal are dying?

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not necessarily. WHO has form in “doctoring” the figures, pardon the pun, and in crating fake pandemics for profit.

https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/european-parliament-to-investigate-who-pandemic-scandal.html

Interesting article, thanks for sharing it. It's dated 2010. Do we know the outcome of the Council of Europe member states inquiry?

sabat

King Mob wrote: »

This has been explained to you several times.
You know what the answer is.

You don't accept it. That's fine. We aren't able to convince people away from irrational religious belief.

So please explain what you believe is the answer.
Or are you unable to give one because: 1) your beliefs are that shallow and empty that you don't have an alternative or 2) because you do believe something, but you're afraid of outlining it because of how silly and easily disprovable it is.

Where has it been explained to me? Who explained it? Was it 'them?' I think you're imagining things again.

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Do you think that countries could be exaggerrating their death numbers and some could be downplaying them? And if so, why?


And who would you believe, and why?

I think most countries would have a reasonable system to register deaths and then be able to produce the numbers. Apart from the law there are other reasons why it is likely to be fairly complete, such as needing a death cert for inheritance, etc. However registering deaths can take upwards of several months till 99% of deaths are registered and available centrally for collation.

As regards exaggerating numbers, or downplaying them, why would they do that, or even how would anyone get away with that?

King Mob

sabat wrote: »

Where has it been explained to me? Who explained it? Was it 'them?' I think you're imagining things again.

Have a look through the thread. Or have a look on google beyond the conspiracy youtube circles.

Now, can you address the other points in my post?

Is it 1 or 2?
I personally think it's 2. You have a conspiracy theory in mind, but it's embarrassing and you know it wouldn't last against the barest level of questioning and are afraid to test it.

ShatterAlan

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is wrong, its is trespass whether you are asked to leave or not. There may additionally be continuing trespass if you do not leave when asked to do so.

What are the procedures (and law) for someone to be trespassed from public property in the Republic Of Ireland?

FileNotFound

King Mob wrote: »

Have a look through the thread. Or have a look on google beyond the conspiracy youtube circles.

Now, can you address the other points in my post?

Is it 1 or 2?
I personally think it's 2. You have a conspiracy theory in mind, but it's embarrassing and you know it wouldn't last against the barest level of questioning and are afraid to test it.

The poor loonies must be tired, they're imaginations have been running overtime.

Sure obviously meehole wanted the country in bits so his party could lose ground to the opposition and not be in a position to look good.

Honestly I worry for some people on here. We need way more investment in mental health supports.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A worldwide conspiracy to fudge the numbers world wide would involve an enormous amount of people: a consensus of medical professionals, scientists, virologists, coroners, media, government officials, etc all working seamlessly together with no leaks whatsoever to create an artificially high number of virus dead..

I've been here long enough know how conspiracy theorists think - that it would be one man with a clipboard just making up figures and everyone else saying "yup, we'll take his word on it".

All of this is underpinned by a complete lack of critical thinking. Either of reality or of any of these conspiracies. And of course not a jot of evidence for any of them. Most have actually just given up on the conspiracies altogether and settled on endless "whack-a-mole" Covid denial, totally not fueled by their irrational paranoia of authority figures, nope

This discussion isn't about fudging the numbers.


It's about measures being introduced and kept in place on the back of the current covid imbroglio.


You claim, and continue to slam hard, that you demand to know what the conspiracy is. You tried that stunt in the Capitol riots thread and after a few attempts you were politely shown the door by a mod.



If your MO is to allow threads to develop and then to wade in demanding to know what the conspiracy is then why don't you petition the moderators the moment a thread is opened, beseeching them to shut down the discussion because you don't see the "conspiracy" and the rest of us be damned?

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

This discussion isn't about fudging the numbers.

Yet, that's what you conspiracy theorists keep claiming and lying about.

If you don't want to discuss the numbers, stop making false claims about them.

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It's about measures being introduced and kept in place on the back of the current covid imbroglio.

Which measures?
Why would they be kept in place?
Who is behind this effort?

No one has answered these questions in anything other than vague, empty waffling.

If you guys don't know, stop pretending to know and admit as much.
I understand this ruins the fun of getting to fantasize that you have secret inside knowledge, but if your concerns are genuine, and you just want to find out the truth, that shouldn't be an issue.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Each country is estimating the number of deaths as a result of Covid, there is no credible basis to randomly "disbelieve" those figures.

Why would every country be secretly and purposefully exaggerating the numbers of deaths? what would that achieve? what would be the point of that?

Why would Ireland as a country decide to say we have e.g. 100,000 extra deaths?

Conspiracy theorists and people with low critical thinking will always come up with nonsense like "because they want to scare us" or similar, to which the question always is, why? and then there's never an answer

Countries are estimating the deaths as a result of Covid and there's literally zero reason to believe they are all systematically "exaggerated" for some unspecified nefarious narrative

Why the hysterics?


"low critical thinking"


"nonsense"


I can almost hear you frothing.


Do you believe every country's report on COVID deaths?

runawaybishop

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What are the procedures (and law) for someone to be trespassed from public property in the Republic Of Ireland?

Knock it off, you need a new routine.

King Mob

runawaybishop wrote: »

Knock it off, you need a new routine.

The thread seems to be taking a swing into the Freeman of the Land stuff now too.

ShatterAlan

runawaybishop wrote: »

Public spaces do not mean 100% open to the public for any reason. Many public buildings have private areas. Many have spaces that require authorisation to enter. Like, you know, parts of a hospital with sick people in them.

So what do they "Mean"?


50%, 75% open to the public?

sabat

King Mob wrote: »

Have a look through the thread. Or have a look on google beyond the conspiracy youtube circles.

Now, can you address the other points in my post?

Is it 1 or 2?
I personally think it's 2. You have a conspiracy theory in mind, but it's embarrassing and you know it wouldn't last against the barest level of questioning and are afraid to test it.

You said it has been explained to me "several times." I can't find any. Maybe I can't see them like 5g and reptilians. Why do you keep referencing "YouTube videos?" Do you have a link to me mentioning any? Why would I be "embarrassed" about something in front of anonymous strangers?

Atlantic Dawn

After the 90%+ current deaths groups has been vaccinated, what happens in this game then?

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

I think most countries would have a reasonable system to register deaths and then be able to produce the numbers. Apart from the law there are other reasons why it is likely to be fairly complete, such as needing a death cert for inheritance, etc. However registering deaths can take upwards of several months till 99% of deaths are registered and available centrally for collation.

As regards exaggerating numbers, or downplaying them, why would they do that, or even how would anyone get away with that?

Excellent question.


Do you believe, or would you have any reason to disbelieve, the figures coming out of Russia?

ShatterAlan

runawaybishop wrote: »

Knock it off, you need a new routine.

No I do not.


Someone said that another party should be locked up for being in a public space. No mention of the law, due process, charge, trial, verdict, conviction or acquittal. Just "locked up"


Another was vociferous in their recommendation that someone should be physically assaulted, i.e., have "the bollocks kicked off them". I'm guessing this determination would be delivered without legal process.


If I need a "new routine" then maybe you ought to address the violence-advocating persons barking behind you.


(And while you are at it, what are the procedures in the Republic Of Ireland for trespassing someone from a public space?)

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

No I do not.


Someone said that another party should be locked up for being in a public space. No mention of the law, due process, charge, trial, verdict, conviction or acquittal. Just "locked up"

No one said this. You are not falling onto your other childish tactic of misrepresenting and strawmaning people when you are upset by their arguments.

King Mob

sabat wrote: »

You said it has been explained to me "several times." I can't find any. Maybe I can't see them like 5g and reptilians.

Or you aren't looking very hard because you don't want to acknowledge points that disprove your conspiracy theory beliefs.

sabat wrote: »

Why do you keep referencing "YouTube videos?" Do you have a link to me mentioning any?

Because that's where the majority of conspiracy memes like the one you are parroting come from.

sabat wrote: »

Why would I be "embarrassed" about something in front of anonymous strangers?

Because you most likely believe some form of conspiracy that is very ridiculous like the idea that covid doesn't exist.

If that's not the case, please outline your conspiracy theory.
What do you believe is the explanation for the "disappearance of the flu" and how does it fit into a conspiracy?

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Excellent question.

One that you and other conspiracy theorists don't seem willing or able to actually answer.

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Excellent question.


Do you believe, or would you have any reason to disbelieve, the figures coming out of Russia?

I don't know what the quality of the death statistics are in Russia, but what has that got to do with what we're discussing?

A typical assertion on there is that there is no covid, only annual flu, or the covid statistics are faked, etc.

If we take just the Irish information on deaths from All causes
Avg deaths in April for 3 years before 2020 = approx 2,500 deaths
April 2020 = approx 3,500 deaths
Go ahead and try to explain that one


The same goes for the UK
The following is the daily (not monthly, daily) deaths Jan - Sep 2020 in the UK.
The bottom line is what they say was due to Covid, the top line is from all causes.

This is from the Office of National Statistics (the UK equiv of the CSO)
Are they faking it?

Here is a link to the US CDC number of deaths per week for the last three years
https://public.tableau.com/profile/dataviz8737#!/vizhome/COVID_excess_mort_withcauses_01272021/WeeklyExcessDeaths
Is it not pretty clear?
Examples
Take the second week of April in each year
For 2017/2018/2019 the highest was 55,636 deaths in that week (from all causes)
In 2020 there were 79,071 deaths, an increase of 42% over the highest of the prev 3 years.
Look at the Dec 2020 numbers, compare to prev years!
Now come back and tell me it's all a hoax!

In summary, anyone can say there is no covid, or it's exagerrated, or people would have died anyway, or it's only a little flu and it will go away!
However it doesn't mean that that's the truth.
If you want the truth you may have to put a bit of effort into getting it, if you can handle it?

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

I don't know what the quality of the death statistics are in Russia, but what has that got to do with what we're discussing?

A typical assertion on there is that there is no covid, only annual flu, or the covid statistics are faked, etc.

If we take just the Irish information on deaths from All causes
Avg deaths in April for 3 years before 2020 = approx 2,500 deaths
April 2020 = approx 3,500 deaths
Go ahead and try to explain that one


The same goes for the UK
The following is the daily (not monthly, daily) deaths Jan - Sep 2020 in the UK.
The bottom line is what they say was due to Covid, the top line is from all causes.

This is from the Office of National Statistics (the UK equiv of the CSO)
Are they faking it?

Here is a link to the US CDC number of deaths per week for the last three years
https://public.tableau.com/profile/dataviz8737#!/vizhome/COVID_excess_mort_withcauses_01272021/WeeklyExcessDeaths
Is it not pretty clear?
Examples
Take the second week of April in each year
For 2017/2018/2019 the highest was 55,636 deaths in that week (from all causes)
In 2020 there were 79,071 deaths, an increase of 42% over the highest of the prev 3 years.
Look at the Dec 2020 numbers, compare to prev years!
Now come back and tell me it's all a hoax!

In summary, anyone can say there is no covid, or it's exagerrated, or people would have died anyway, or it's only a little flu and it will go away!
However it doesn't mean that that's the truth.
If you want the truth you may have to put a bit of effort into getting it, if you can handle it?

As you correctly state, the graph shows deaths from ALL causes. The graph correlates perfectly with lockdown but the number of deaths caused by lockdown are not being calculated. No doubt some day they will be.

Fighting Tao

SafeSurfer wrote: »

As you correctly state, the graph shows deaths from ALL causes. The graph correlates perfectly with lockdown but the number of deaths caused by lockdown are not being calculated. No doubt some day they will be.

What about the number of deaths that didn’t occur as a result of lockdown? You know, work accidents, other work related stress causes....

No matter how you try to spin it, the number of deaths have increased when if there was no pandemic, they would have reduced under lockdown.

SafeSurfer

Fighting Tao wrote: »

What about the number of deaths that didn’t occur as a result of lockdown? You know, work accidents, other work related stress causes....

No matter how you try to spin it, the number of deaths have increased when if there was no pandemic, they would have reduced under lockdown.

A total of 46 people died in workplace accidents in 2019 so even if every workplace death was avoided it wouldn’t skew the figures.

Let’s compare excess death data from 2 years with lockdowns. Its is irrational to compare a normal year to 2020 and conclude that any excess deaths must be Covid related.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

As you correctly state, the graph shows deaths from ALL causes. The graph correlates perfectly with lockdown but the number of deaths caused by lockdown are not being calculated. No doubt some day they will be.

So how many where due to the lockdown?

If you can't provide a number, how do you know that the numbers of covid deaths are being over stated to any significant level?

Fighting Tao

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A total of 46 people died in workplace accidents in 2019 so even if every workplace death was avoided it wouldn’t skew the figures.

Let’s compare excess death data from 2 years with lockdowns. Its is irrational to compare a normal year to 2020 and conclude that any excess deaths must be Covid related.

How about all the other accidents people have doing daily things they can’t do during lockdown?

The covid deaths are reported. Tough crap if you don’t believe it. No one can stop you from surrounding yourself in the lies you want to believe. Many have tried to help.