All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

If your MO is to allow threads to develop and then to wade in demanding to know what the conspiracy is then why don't you petition the moderators the moment a thread is opened, beseeching them to shut down the discussion because you don't see the "conspiracy" and the rest of us be damned?

The first post in this thread suggests there's a big conspiracy going on. When asked about that conspiracy no one can provide details. That speaks for itself.

The rest of it is pretty much a bunch of posters trying to hint that "something is going on" but dodging and evading like politicians when asked for the barest of details. Which again, speaks for itself.

Ironically, the group of people who believe "Satan" is behind all this are the most coherent so far.

King Mob

Risteard81 wrote: »

No they don't. They outrageously overreport.

It started as anyone who has ever had a positive PCR test for COVID would be a COVID death, regardless of when they died or how. (In other words, COVID would eventually have a 100% mortality rate.)

Untrue.

Provide the accurate number and the source for it.

Put up or shut up.

Risteard81

King Mob wrote: »

Untrue.

Provide the accurate number and the source for it.

Put up or shut up.

It isn't untrue. It's widely documented.

Why don't you shut up? Don't you dare tell me to.

King Mob

Risteard81 wrote: »

It isn't untrue. It's widely documented.

Ok. Cool. Provide the accurate numbers for covid deaths and where you got that number.
Been asking for it for a while.

Risteard81 wrote: »

Why don't you shut up? Don't you dare tell me to.

Easiest way to shut me up is to show me up and show the evidence.

Not sure why you guys keeping being evasive about this.

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"Prove the death figures to me, I don't accept it, therefore exaggeration" over and over again is not a suggestion or a theory, it's just denialism. That's all you are doing here.

Well it has taken 5 pages for some posters to admit that Covid death figures are exaggerated.

Now the refrain is oh yes but how much are they exaggerated by.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Now the refrain is oh yes but how much are they exaggerated by.

Yes. that's the question you are being asked. You keep ignoring it.

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. Cool. Provide the accurate numbers for covid deaths and where you got that number.
Been asking for it for a while.


Easiest way to shut me up is to show me up and show the evidence.

Not sure why you guys keeping being evasive about this.

Your “evidence” is deaths from Covid 19 equals deaths occurring in people who tested positive for Covid 19 or failing that excess deaths. Both of these are inaccurate measures of Deaths due to Covid 19.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your “evidence” is deaths from Covid 19 equals deaths occurring in people who tested positive for Covid 19 or failing that excess deaths. Both of these are inaccurate measures of Deaths due to Covid 19.

Untrue. And again, you dodge the question.

Why are you dodging the question?

PintOfView

Risteard81 wrote: »

No they don't. They outrageously overreport.

It started as anyone who has ever had a positive PCR test for COVID would be a COVID death, regardless of when they died or how. (In other words, COVID would eventually have a 100% mortality rate.)

This changed months later to any cause inside 28 days of a positive PCR test.

Then they sought to change it to any cause inside a 60 day period of a positive PCR test.

Massive overreporting of so-called "COVID" deaths.

With all due respect, the technicalities that you are talking about (testing, etc) are all irrelevant.
What is clear is that a huge number of additional people died compared to normal last April.
In Ireland this was 3,500 in April compared to 2,500 avg in April over prev three years.

What difference does it make how many are classified as dying of covid, or with covid, etc.
It's clear to see there was a spike in deaths, and clear to know there was something undesirable going on.

The public health people, and majority of the population, concluded the thing causing the deaths was the covid virus, and took action accordingly.

What's so difficult to understand about this?

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your “evidence” is deaths from Covid 19 equals deaths occurring in people who tested positive for Covid 19 or failing that excess deaths. Both of these are inaccurate measures of Deaths due to Covid 19.

You're avoiding my question as to what you think we should have done last April?

Arguing over how many of the excess deaths were with covid, as opposed to from covid, is a wild goose chase, and looks like deflection.

NaFirinne

Billionares have grown richer around the Globe during this covid Pandemic.

Billionares have huge influence into the World health organisation and the Davos Group.

So basically from our Super rich leaders: “It’s our world, we own everything. We’re just letting you live here on our earth. You will borrow everything and pay us for it.” - And if you don’t like it you shouldn’t have been born here.

Fighting Tao

I’m trying to figure out how a few deaths may be listed incorrectly (get denotified when identified anyway) means that the restrictions are permanent.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your “evidence” is deaths from Covid 19 equals deaths occurring in people who tested positive for Covid 19 or failing that excess deaths. Both of these are inaccurate measures of Deaths due to Covid 19.

No one has said that all excess deaths are covid deaths. You are just building a straw man.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well it has taken 5 pages for some posters to admit that Covid death figures are exaggerated.

Now the refrain is oh yes but how much are they exaggerated by.

Another strawman. Some countries exagerate deaths, some just lie and state none happened. Most of us are following clear guidelines that state covid should only be on the death cert if it was a factor.

PintOfView

NaFirinne wrote: »

Billionares have grown richer around the Globe during this covid Pandemic.

Billionares have huge influence into the World health organisation and the Davos Group.

So basically from our Super rich leaders: “It’s our world, we own everything. We’re just letting you live here on our earth. You will borrow everything and pay us for it.” - And if you don’t like it you shouldn’t have been born here.

No doubt billionaires have more influence than the man in the street.
Whether they have more influence than politicians is arguable, unless you mean politicians who are influenced by lobbying, back handers, etc.

Regardless I can't see any connection between that and the current pandemic.
If you see a connection please elaborate?

King Mob

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I’m trying to figure out how a few deaths may be listed incorrectly (get denotified when identified anyway) means that the restrictions are permanent.

The point came about because people don't believe the measures are justified by the number of covid deaths.
Some people believe that the accurate number shows that the measures are over reactions.
Some people also believe that the numbers are being exaggerated on purpose because of some giant global conspiracy that no one seems to want to talk about.

runawaybishop

Risteard81 wrote: »

No they don't. They outrageously overreport.

It started as anyone who has ever had a positive PCR test for COVID would be a COVID death, regardless of when they died or how. (In other words, COVID would eventually have a 100% mortality rate.)

This changed months later to any cause inside 28 days of a positive PCR test.

Then they sought to change it to any cause inside a 60 day period of a positive PCR test.

Massive overreporting of so-called "COVID" deaths.

Wrong. Deaths due to covid are not reported as covid deaths of the confirmed test was done 27 days before death.

Dominic Raab, the UK Foreign Secretary and first Secretary of State, has acknowledged that the government of Boris Johnson has been understating the number of deaths from Covid-19 in the UK

runawaybishop

King Mob wrote: »

The point came about because people don't believe the measures are justified by the number of covid deaths.
Some people believe that the accurate number shows that the measures are over reactions.
Some people also believe that the numbers are being exaggerated on purpose because of some giant global conspiracy that no one seems to want to talk about.

But the virus isn't serious
No one is dying
Hospitals are empty
Oh all those deaths aren't from covid
*Fingers in ears*

King Mob

runawaybishop wrote: »

But the virus isn't serious
No one is dying
Hospitals are empty
Oh all those deaths aren't from covid
*Fingers in ears*

"It's all of some big plan!
It can't be that the the world is random and complex and scary. It's obviously the boogeyman behind it all!"

chewed

King Mob wrote: »

"It's all of some big plan!
It can't be that the the world is random and complex and scary. It's obviously the boogeyman behind it all!"

And everyone else is on this big dark secret plan....nurses, doctors, politicians, musicians, etc, etc.

King Mob

chewed wrote: »

And everyone else is on this big dark secret plan....nurses, doctors, politicians, musicians, etc, etc.

They have to be, right!
Otherwise this might actually be a serious crisis where people could die!
That's too scary to accept!

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

Untrue. And again, you dodge the question.

Why are you dodging the question?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/1-in-3-excess-deaths-in-the-us-not-directly-caused-by-covid-19


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32521411/


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

SafeSurfer

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I’m trying to figure out how a few deaths may be listed incorrectly (get denotified when identified anyway) means that the restrictions are permanent.

A few deaths? In England they delisted over 5000 Covid deaths last year.

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A few deaths? In England they delisted over 5000 Covid deaths last year.

Assuming you're right, what does that prove, in the big picture?
(they had 104,000 covid deaths)

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

Assuming you're right, what does that prove, in the big picture?
(they had 104,000 covid deaths)

My whole point.


Covid 19 deaths have been exaggerated.

King Mob

Finally. Not sure what the hold up was...

However, none actually support your claims.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/1-in-3-excess-deaths-in-the-us-not-directly-caused-by-covid-19

This talks about the excess deaths. It does not say that 1 in 3 of the reported covid numbers are actually not covid deaths.

Additionally as I pointed out, the source for this claim actually states:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771761

Although total US death counts are remarkably consistent from year to year, US deaths increased by 20% during March-July 2020. COVID-19 was a documented cause of only 67% of these excess deaths. Some states had greater difficulty than others in containing community spread, causing protracted elevations in excess deaths that extended into the summer. US deaths attributed to some noninfectious causes increased during COVID-19 surges. Excess deaths attributed to causes other than COVID-19 could reflect deaths from unrecognized or undocumented infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 or deaths among uninfected patients resulting from disruptions produced by the pandemic. Study limitations include the reliance on provisional data, inaccuracies in death certificates, and assumptions applied to the model.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32521411/

Similarly, this study also does not talk about the reported covid numbers. It talks about excess deaths and states:

It is possible that some people are dying from Covid-19 without being diagnosed, and/or that there are excess deaths due to other causes as a result of the pandemic

This study also involved a very tiny sample size given the actual scale of the pandemic.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

This article does not actually link to the paper it's talking about.
Secondly, it also does not refer to these deaths being counted as part of the covid numbers.

Do you have anything else that actually backs up your claims?
Maybe try reading beyond the headlines?

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

My whole point.


Covid 19 deaths have been exaggerated.

So now you're only claiming that 5000 cases were exaggerated?
And that these were removed from the official numbers?

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/1-in-3-excess-deaths-in-the-us-not-directly-caused-by-covid-19


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32521411/


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

From the middle link above

"Results suggest that there were an additional 968 weekly deaths that officially did not involve Covid-19, compared to what would have otherwise been expected.
It is possible that some people are dying from Covid-19 without being diagnosed, and/or that there are excess deaths due to other causes as a result of the pandemic. "

This seems to be saying that there were 968 more people dying that you would expect, over and above the number you would normally expect + the number attributed to covid.
This is suggesting one explanation is people dying of covid without being tested as such, ie. under-reporting of covid deaths!!

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/1-in-3-excess-deaths-in-the-us-not-directly-caused-by-covid-19


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32521411/


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

You see how easy it is to mis-interpret information.

Sorry to badger you, but how would you have handled the pandemic last April if you were the minister for health?

King Mob

PintOfView wrote: »

This is suggesting one explanation is people dying of covid without being tested as such, ie. under-reporting of covid deaths!!

The two studies linked both suggest underreporting as a possible explanation.

Yet, we're being told that these are evidence for over reporting...