All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

PintOfView

sabat wrote: »

I'll ask again: where has the flu gone?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9206071/amp/Flu-wiped-lowest-level-130-YEARS-seasonal-virus-plummets-95.html?__twitter_impression=true

Apparently "it's been explained to me already" though I can't find any such posts...

Here is what that article says:

"<<Fewer people are being struck down by the flu than at any time in the past 130 years.
Experts say that the bug appears to have been 'almost wiped out' after the number of sufferers plummeted by 95 per cent.>>"

We'd have to verify what that paper says, but if accurate, then why would it be surprising?

Have people in Ireland and the UK been social distancing, and wearing masks for the past 9 months, including two lockdowns?

The flu is a virus, like covid.
It is not in the air, and it doesn't just descends on people!
it passes from one person to the next in roughly the same way as covid
(people sneezing, sharing cars or confined spaces with people who have it, etc.).

What effect would you expect two lockdowns, plus 9 months of social distancing, to have on the flu?

sabat

So these measures are preventing the flu virus spreading but the covid19 virus is rampant? Ok that makes perfect sense...

EyesClosed

sabat wrote: »

So these measures are preventing the flu virus spreading but the covid19 virus is rampant? Ok that makes perfect sense...

This is been explained to you in the post above yours... Try again

PintOfView

sabat wrote: »

So these measures are preventing the flu virus spreading but the covid19 virus is rampant? Ok that makes perfect sense...

So what is your explanation?

Do you think covid is actually the flu, and there is no covid?
If that is what you think, what do you base that opinion on?

Dohnjoe

sabat wrote: »

So these measures are preventing the flu virus spreading but the covid19 virus is rampant? Ok that makes perfect sense...

It does make sense. Covid and seasonal flu are not the same. Flu has been around for eons, we have built up resistances, we have annual flu jab.

Covid on the other hand is relatively new, we didn't have a vaccine, it's highly infectious, and it is out of control.

Our measures to combat the spread of Covid have meant that as a byproduct other infectious illnesses have decreased (like flu)

Again this glaring correlation between people who can't grasp the basics, their beliefs in conspiracies and their distrust/paranoia of authority.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

There is nothing scientific about how the number of people in hospital because of Covid or the number of deaths because of Covid are determined.

Ok. What are the accurate numbers and where is this information coming from?
You still haven't answered this question and your previous sources did not support your claims.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Using the “denier” moniker to end debate is a common tactic for those desperately trying to prevent any peeking behind the Great Oz’s curtain.

Yea, holocaust deniers and climate change denialists claim this also...

King Mob

sabat wrote: »

So these measures are preventing the flu virus spreading but the covid19 virus is rampant? Ok that makes perfect sense...

So what explanation does make sense?

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

What does that question contribute to the big picture?
Are you claiming a significant number of hospital covid patients are in maternity wards?

Where in his post did he state that? What possibly could have made you come to such a conclusion?

PintOfView

(1)

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Here is a question for you.

If a patient is in a maternity ward in hospital expecting a baby and they test positive for Covid 19, do you think it is accurate to include them in figures of people in hospital due to Covid 19?

(2)

PintOfView wrote: »

What does that question contribute to the big picture?
Are you claiming a significant number of hospital covid patients are in maternity wards?

(3)

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Where in his post did he state that? What possibly could have made you come to such a conclusion?

Firstly, you're assuming it's a 'he'!

The first quote above would only be relevant to this discussion if the daily quoted number of people in hospital with covid included significant numbers (say 10% to 20%) of patients who were in maternity wards, who had tested positive for covid, but with no covid symptoms.

Having said that there may be an argument that even those people should be counted due to possible risks to the baby, etc.,
and in any case they are in hospital,
and they do have covid,
and so do require to be treated under a covid regime.

Regardless, in the scheme of things it is nit picking, and doesn't prove a conspiracy!

runawaybishop

sabat wrote: »

So these measures are preventing the flu virus spreading but the covid19 virus is rampant? Ok that makes perfect sense...

It's makes sense unless you are being wilfully thick. Covid is more contagious. Christ on a bike, use your brain for once.

sabat

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's makes sense unless you are being wilfully thick. Covid is more contagious. Christ on a bike, use your brain for once.

Do you have a link to a scientific paper that demonstrates covid19 is more contagious than influenza? Despite all the blather and personal insults, the simple explanation that flu patients are presenting and being given the hugely unreliable PCR test showing covid19 remains overwhelmingly the most likely explanation for the anomaly in the numbers.

King Mob

sabat wrote: »

Despite all the blather and personal insults, the simple explanation that flu patients are presenting and being given the hugely unreliable PCR test showing covid19 remains overwhelmingly the most likely explanation for the anomaly in the numbers.

Source for this claim?

Are doctors are experts making this mistake because they are stupid or are they doing it on purpose?

Also, could you explain why you reject the explanation given by the expert in the article you supplied?
Is he also just stupid or is he lying?

PintOfView

sabat wrote: »

Do you have a link to a scientific paper that demonstrates covid19 is more contagious than influenza? Despite all the blather and personal insults, the simple explanation that flu patients are presenting and being given the hugely unreliable PCR test showing covid19 remains overwhelmingly the most likely explanation for the anomaly in the numbers.

How do you explain all the extra people dying above normal?
Is the flu particularly bad since last April?

Why did 3,500 people die in Ireland last April,
but only 2,500 died in April of the previous three years?

Dohnjoe

sabat wrote: »

the simple explanation that flu patients are presenting and being given the hugely unreliable PCR test showing covid19 remains overwhelmingly the most likely explanation for the anomaly in the numbers.

Am I reading this right, you are claiming that people with flu are being misdiagnosed with Covid?

runawaybishop

sabat wrote: »

Do you have a link to a scientific paper that demonstrates covid19 is more contagious than influenza? Despite all the blather and personal insults, the simple explanation that flu patients are presenting and being given the hugely unreliable PCR test showing covid19 remains overwhelmingly the most likely explanation for the anomaly in the numbers.

Ok, so it is wilful. Thanks for confirming.

runawaybishop

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Am I reading this right, you are claiming that people with flu are being misdiagnosed with Covid?

This is the intelligence of the arguments being put forward by conspiracy theorists.

Society demands that we hold all people as equal, and that seems to mean some people think we should give equal weight and respect to what is, frankly, stupidity.

When my kid tells me she can actually really fly and do magic I entertain and humour her, because she is six. When a grown adult postulates such a stupid 'theory' they should not expect to be humoured. What they are saying is irresponsible and dangerous.

Fighting Tao

sabat wrote: »

Do you have a link to a scientific paper that demonstrates covid19 is more contagious than influenza? Despite all the blather and personal insults, the simple explanation that flu patients are presenting and being given the hugely unreliable PCR test showing covid19 remains overwhelmingly the most likely explanation for the anomaly in the numbers.

I’m on day 8 of symptoms. I tested positive. Please come over. I’d like to share the “flu” with you so you can see for yourself the difference.

So far I’ve had:
Sore throat
Muscle aches
Exhaustion
Bad head cold
Sinus blocked and pain
Severe headache
Nausea
Chest pain
Fingers aching
Loss of appetite
Fever
Cough with brown mucous
Diarrhoea
Earache.

Some of the symptoms have appeared multiple times in the last 8 days. I can see how it’s confusing to you due to some overlap of symptoms, but flu symptoms don’t come and go.

Does that sound like the flu to you??

sabat

Let's be clear here. It's impossible for the flu to have virtually disappeared overnight all over the world in the way it's being claimed. Scientifically impossible.

sabat

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I’m on day 8 of symptoms. I tested positive. Please come over. I’d like to share the “flu” with you so you can see for yourself the difference.

So far I’ve had:
Sore throat
Muscle aches
Exhaustion
Bad head cold
Sinus blocked and pain
Severe headache
Nausea
Chest pain
Fingers aching
Loss of appetite
Fever
Cough with brown mucous
Diarrhoea
Earache.

Some of the symptoms have appeared multiple times in the last 8 days. I can see how it’s confusing to you due to some overlap of symptoms, but flu symptoms don’t come and go.

Does that sound like the flu to you??

Could be. Could be covid19. Influenza is not the common cold which is what I infer you think, and what a lot of people believe.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/symptoms.htm

runawaybishop

sabat wrote: »

Let's be clear here. It's impossible for the flu to have virtually disappeared overnight all over the world in the way it's being claimed. Scientifically impossible.

You havent the slightest familiarity with science. It's been explained ad nauseum why a less contagious virus that we are heavily vaccinated for is being seen less.

Your theory is stupid and you should feel bad.

Fighting Tao

sabat wrote: »

Could be. Could be covid19. Influenza is not the common cold which is what I infer you think, and what a lot of people believe.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/symptoms.htm

I’ve had the flu in the past and I have had covid. I would pick a double dose of the flue anytime over covid. I’m saying that when I had mild-ish covid symptoms.

It has been explained to you what is happening the flu. You also need to bear in mind that there is less testing for the flu too as it is not an issue this year, due to less travel, less mixing of people, being less virulent than covid and so masks etc are working for it, and also because a huge number of the population got the flu jab. I got a flu jab myself last October/November. It’s ok not to understand something, but it is not ok to try and make people out to be liars because you don’t understand.

sabat

sabat wrote: »

Let's be clear here. It's impossible for the flu to have virtually disappeared overnight all over the world in the way it's being claimed. Scientifically impossible.

Why?

PintOfView

sabat wrote: »

Let's be clear here. It's impossible for the flu to have virtually disappeared overnight all over the world in the way it's being claimed. Scientifically impossible.

It's easy to say what you just said. Anyone can say anything, regardless of whether it's true or false!

You say that it's scientifically impossible for flu to have virtually disappeared overnight (I presume you mean since last April).
Why is it impossible?
Why would the covid measures not also prevent flu?

And of course you may ignore this question, if you don't have a reasonable answer, but that will suggest to me that you might be just making stuff up!!

Dohnjoe

sabat wrote: »

Let's be clear here. It's impossible for the flu to have virtually disappeared overnight all over the world in the way it's being claimed. Scientifically impossible.

Stop appealing to science, you are arguing from ignorance/incredulity

Flu hasn't disappeared, there are just far less cases this year because for one of the first times in history most of the human race has been wearing masks, social distancing, lower international travel and on lockdown.

PCeeeee

sabat wrote: »

Let's be clear here. It's impossible for the flu to have virtually disappeared overnight all over the world in the way it's being claimed. Scientifically impossible.

What element of science are you using to deem it impossible?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It does make sense. Covid and seasonal flu are not the same. Flu has been around for eons, we have built up resistances, we have annual flu jab.

Covid on the other hand is relatively new, we didn't have a vaccine, it's highly infectious, and it is out of control.

Our measures to combat the spread of Covid have meant that as a byproduct other infectious illnesses have decreased (like flu)

Again this glaring correlation between people who can't grasp the basics, their beliefs in conspiracies and their distrust/paranoia of authority.

I've never taken a flu shot nor do I know anybody who has. The body can fight this disease like any other. Now I'm sure you'll come out swinging saying "but, but, Covid is different" as if you're some kind of expert in contagious diseases.



I would imagine the flu is just as infectious as covid is purported to be yet masks and distancing and lockdowns are never introduced during "flu season" when there's a "dose going round".


Again, I'm sure you'll slam on the keyboard and demand "where's the conspiracy?" or try to put words in my mouth like "So you're saying X,Y,Z," So I just thought I'd preempt you there.



This disease has an abyssmally low death rate.


In comparison how many people die from tuberculosis each year? Well over a million. And influenza? How about diarrhael diseases like dysentry?



One might well say well the only people getting those diseases are pissheads who live underground in subway stations or brown folk in Bangladesh. Maybe.....but these too are global numbers and they don't warrant lockdowns and curfews.

Silentcorner

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

A few here seem to be in the habit of inventing figures to suit their agenda.

Well, our case fatality rate is invented...and used to suit an agenda.

Boggles

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well, our case fatality rate is invented...and used to suit an agenda.

Invented by whom and what agenda exactly?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I've never taken a flu shot nor do I know anybody who has.

Many people get the flu shot every year.

I would imagine the flu is just as infectious as covid is purported to be yet masks and distancing and lockdowns are never introduced during "flu season" when there's a "dose going round".

Covid is considered to be more contagious that the flu among certain age groups

Again, I'm sure you'll slam on the keyboard and demand "where's the conspiracy?" or try to put words in my mouth like "So you're saying X,Y,Z," So I just thought I'd preempt you there.

More ad hominem and rants

This disease has an abyssmally low death rate.

Covid is more lethal than the flu.

In comparison how many people die from tuberculosis each year? Well over a million. And influenza? How about diarrhael diseases like dysentry?

Irrelevant. As mentioned the key issue with Covid is that it's threatening to overwhelm national health systems.

One might well say well the only people getting those diseases are pissheads who live underground in subway stations or brown folk in Bangladesh. Maybe.....but these too are global numbers and they don't warrant lockdowns and curfews.

TB and dysentery aren't currently global pandemics.

Ignorance of these facts is not a valid argument against them.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well, our case fatality rate is invented...and used to suit an agenda.

You can't invent a case fatality rate, you calculate it.