All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

Anyway, to be fair, they are getting a bit more honest about it now:

"No10's top scientific advisers warned there must be no more than 10,000 Britons infected on any given day...They also claimed some restrictions like the Rule of Six and face masks in public places might need to remain in place 'forever' because Covid will become endemic.
...
It came after SAGE expert Professor John Edmunds warned most curbs on daily life — which may include the Rule of Six — are likely to be in force until the end of this year, while less restrictive curbs — like face mask wearing on public transport and indoors — could possibly be in place 'forever'."
( https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9248999/Bristol-Covid-variant-reinfect-vaccinated-Britons-SAGE-expert-warns.html .)

These are the people who are running the show in the UK, like the Irish Nphet. Although for some it will always be a conspiracy theory no matter what happens!

Once you conform they were always going to keep these things permanent, moral of the story, don't conform to completely tyrannous outrageous government edicts and demands!

Btw, just one other thing that strikes me reading and listening to people about all this. Its very important that the blame for all this lies with the correct people. Its the government, more exactly its transnational and international overlords, and its, highly, paid lackeys in the media/science establishment that are doing this to us. Its not 'older selfish people' or uncontrollable 'younger people' or foreign travellers or 'super spreaders' etc etc. I think its very clear that you should not get into a blame game with fellow ordinary citizens in that way, but you should be angry with the government and get them to stop torturing people like this.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And there are others who haven't once mentioned elements of the thread title. So if I and another discuss matters and issues then if you are not au fait then why not stay out of it?


Unless you are a moderator in training. I'll put you back on ignore.

But it points out the central fallacy of your and other conspiracy theorists positions.
You can't point out or even speculate that any measures will be permanent.
Because none aren't going to be.

The fact you don't want to address this issue and want to ignore it shows that you aware of this issue and are dishonestly trying to ignore it to pretend to have a viable theory.

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Well instead of wearing masks and cowering inside maybe we should all move to Cuba. Same population as Belgium except that Cuba has had 249 deaths. By comparison Belgium has had over 21 thousand.
....

See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cuba/cubas-coronavirus-cases-death-toll-surge-idUSKBN29V2QK

Let me quote you some bits from that (dated Jan 26th ) ...

"Cuba’s death toll from the coronavirus reached 200 on Tuesday, with authorities reporting nearly as many deaths so far in January as in the six previous months combined, due to an unprecedented acceleration in infections. While Cuba had just a tenth of the world average of daily infections per capita for much of last year, cases have surged since the government reopened borders in November and loosened restrictions on daily life."

What do you make of that?

This is what you're telling everyone to do, loosen restrictions, etc. What do you expect would happen if we did that?
If you believe that it's all a hoax then you would expect nothing to happen!
If the virus is real, as Cuba just found out, then reality would bite!!!

PintOfView

brianhere wrote: »

Anyway, to be fair, they are getting a bit more honest about it now:

These are the people who are running the show in the UK, like the Irish Nphet. Although for some it will always be a conspiracy theory no matter what happens!

Once you conform they were always going to keep these things permanent, moral of the story, don't conform to completely tyrannous outrageous government edicts and demands!

Btw, just one other thing that strikes me reading and listening to people about all this. Its very important that the blame for all this lies with the correct people. Its the government, more exactly its transnational and international overlords, and its, highly, paid lackeys in the media/science establishment that are doing this to us. Its not 'older selfish people' or uncontrollable 'younger people' or foreign travellers or 'super spreaders' etc etc. I think its very clear that you should not get into a blame game with fellow ordinary citizens in that way, but you should be angry with the government and get them to stop torturing people like this.

Sorry, but you're creating some fake news there by selectively quoting.

Here is your quote
"No10's top scientific advisers warned there must be no more than 10,000 Britons infected on any given day...They also claimed some restrictions like the Rule of Six and face masks in public places might need to remain in place 'forever' because Covid will become endemic.

Here's what the article said
"No10's top scientific advisers warned there must be no more than 10,000 Britons infected on any given day — the equivalent of fewer than 1,000 daily cases — before Boris Johnson should start easing the measures, or they claim the country risks allowing new mutant variants to spawn. To dip below the 1,000 mark, cases must drop by at least 15-fold as official data shows around 15,000 Britons are testing positive each day.
They also claimed some restrictions like the Rule of Six and face masks in public places might need to remain in place 'forever' because Covid will become endemic. "

When you say ...
"Once you conform they were always going to keep these things permanent, moral of the story, don't conform to completely tyrannous outrageous government edicts and demands!"
What would you have us do? I imagine you would say open back up and forget the virus and masks, etc?
What do you think would then happen?
Would the number of infections & deaths go up, or down, or stay the same?

runawaybishop

PintOfView wrote: »

See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cuba/cubas-coronavirus-cases-death-toll-surge-idUSKBN29V2QK

Let me quote you some bits from that (dated Jan 26th ) ...

"Cuba’s death toll from the coronavirus reached 200 on Tuesday, with authorities reporting nearly as many deaths so far in January as in the six previous months combined, due to an unprecedented acceleration in infections. While Cuba had just a tenth of the world average of daily infections per capita for much of last year, cases have surged since the government reopened borders in November and loosened restrictions on daily life."

What do you make of that?

This is what you're telling everyone to do, loosen restrictions, etc. What do you expect would happen if we did that?
If you believe that it's all a hoax then you would expect nothing to happen!
If the virus is real, as Cuba just found out, then reality would bite!!!

It's just deflection, a common tactic. Look at X, because of them this is a hoax. Let's ignore the info we have about Ireland in front of us and instead focus on some other country without actually doing any verification of what we are talking about.

Then, once X is explained, the poster will move on to something else. We are currently in the 'its all a hoax, no one is dying' phase of the cycle. We can look forward to 'vaccines will kill you', 'actually the virus is deadly and manufactured' and 'they didn't die from covid'.

It's a pity we are back to this guff again as some recent posters were at least trying to have a realistic discussion.

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cuba/cubas-coronavirus-cases-death-toll-surge-idUSKBN29V2QK

Let me quote you some bits from that (dated Jan 26th ) ...

"Cuba’s death toll from the coronavirus reached 200 on Tuesday, with authorities reporting nearly as many deaths so far in January as in the six previous months combined, due to an unprecedented acceleration in infections. While Cuba had just a tenth of the world average of daily infections per capita for much of last year, cases have surged since the government reopened borders in November and loosened restrictions on daily life."

What do you make of that?

This is what you're telling everyone to do, loosen restrictions, etc. What do you expect would happen if we did that?
If you believe that it's all a hoax then you would expect nothing to happen!
If the virus is real, as Cuba just found out, then reality would bite!!!

Who said it was a hoax?

And as for "what would happen?" ... do you have a crystal ball?
I mentioned several countries and the WHO's figures. Why don't you address them instead of quietly ignoring them?

ShatterAlan

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's just deflection, a common tactic. Look at X, because of them this is a hoax. Let's ignore the info we have about Ireland in front of us and instead focus on some other country without actually doing any verification of what we are talking about.

Then, once X is explained, the poster will move on to something else. We are currently in the 'its all a hoax, no one is dying' phase of the cycle. We can look forward to 'vaccines will kill you', 'actually the virus is deadly and manufactured' and 'they didn't die from covid'.

It's a pity we are back to this guff again as some recent posters were at least trying to have a realistic discussion.

arccosh said that China/Belarus were "lieing" regarding their figures even though those figures were quoted by the WHO and you thanked that post. Do you have anything to say about that or is that all part of the defllection playbook?

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Who said it was a hoax?

And as for "what would happen?" ... do you have a crystal ball?
I mentioned several countries and the WHO's figures. Why don't you address them instead of quietly ignoring them?

I don't have time to address all the countries you mentioned.
I already addressed Cuba, what do you say to that?

When you say And as for "what would happen?" ... do you have a crystal ball?
Aren't you just ignoring that question because you know well that cases/deaths would increase if we went back to normal?

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

I don't have time to address all the countries you mentioned.
I already addressed Cuba, what do you say to that?

When you say And as for "what would happen?" ... do you have a crystal ball?
Aren't you just ignoring that question because you know well that cases/deaths would increase if we went back to normal?

You don't have time? You seem to have plenty of time.
You were posting from 8pm to midnight yesterday and up bright and early again today before 8am

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You don't have time? You seem to have plenty of time.

Is that evasion again?

robinph

Has anyone come up with a vaguely sensible reasoning for why all national governments world wide want to shut down their economy's yet?

As fun as it is arguing about the difference in reporting methods and health care systems between Belarus and Cuba, it still doesn't explain the point of the conspiracy.

ShatterAlan

PintOfView wrote: »

Is that evasion again?

So Cuba had an uptick in deaths in January...what's your point? I asked how a country of 11 million could have such a small death toll from Covid....among other countries. You've evaded that question yet accuse me of evasion.

King Mob

robinph wrote: »

Has anyone come up with a vaguely sensible reasoning for why all national governments world wide want to shut down their economy's yet?
.

Nope. This point is being knowingly and actively ignored by conspiracy theorists.

They can't provide an answer. They know they can't.
But of they admit that then they can't pretend to be in the know any more.

robinph

King Mob wrote: »

Nope. This point is being knowingly and actively ignored by conspiracy theorists.

They can't provide an answer. They know they can't.
But of they admit that then they can't pretend to be in the know any more.

You fake moon landings because you want to show how you are better at launching big rockets into the sky than the USSR.

You have a conspiracy around shooting JFK because some people don't like him or something.

You have a conspiracy around planes flying into towers because you want to start a war and sell more bombs or something.

All complete nonsense obviously, but there is at least some reasoning and at least minimal thought gone into explaining the "why". All anyone has come up with around any covid or mask or other restrictions at best is something about something being reset, but nobody has any idea what is being reset, why anyone would want anything reset or how the people wanting this something to be reset have managed to get the entire planets government's and civil services bought into reseting of the thing that can't be explained.

Don't bother going down rabbit holes chasing after explanations of different methods of reporting deaths and case rates around the world and why there are slight variations from one countries response to another.

Just keep asking them to explain what the conspiracy actually is first and the why of it all.

King Mob

robinph wrote: »

You fake moon landings because you want to show how you are better at launching big rockets into the sky than the USSR.

You have a conspiracy around shooting JFK because some people don't like him or something.

You have a conspiracy around planes flying into towers because you want to start a war and sell more bombs or something.

All complete nonsense obviously, but there is at least some reasoning and at least minimal thought gone into explaining the "why".

To be fair I should say that some conspiracy theorists have suggested things like it's all part of a plot to turn everyone into cyborgs and/or is part of Satan's apocalypse plans. Something about masks dehumanising people or some such.

It's possible that the other conspiracy theorists also believe similar theories, but are reluctant to be honest about them as that usually (and rightly) gets them laughed out of the room.

runawaybishop

ShatterAlan wrote: »

arccosh said that China/Belarus were "lieing" regarding their figures even though those figures were quoted by the WHO and you thanked that post. Do you have anything to say about that or is that all part of the defllection playbook?

Yet again an actual conspiracy is just wildly believed because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions. If you think China are truthful you need your head examined.

Here is an actual conspiracy - some countries are lying about their poor covid response.

King Mob

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yet again an actual conspiracy is just wildly believed because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions. If you think China are truthful you need your head examined.

Here is an actual conspiracy - some countries are lying about their poor covid response.

Member a few weeks ago how we were being told that the virus was definitely man-made because China was acting shady?

robinph

King Mob wrote: »

To be fair I should say that some conspiracy theorists have suggested things like it's all part of a plot to turn everyone into cyborgs...

I should probably keep quiet about me already having NFC and Bluetooth sensors stuck to me permanently and apps on my phone being used to directly control body functions to keep me alive.

robinph

runawaybishop wrote: »

Here is an actual conspiracy - some countries are lying about their poor covid response.

So an individual country not being entirely truthful about their stats regarding covid makes sense. For whatever reason they don't want to admit to not doing so well on the international stage maybe, or they are just a country that lies to their population in order to keep them in line.

Now what has any of that to do with what the rest of the world is doing. If China is lying about their stats being low and the rest of the world is lying about theirs being high, what is the point in the rest of the world saying they have worse rates? Why are we being told that lots of people are dying from covid if its not true? If lots of people are not actually dying and China isn't lying then where is the conspiracy?

Whilst China might be lying, that doesn't do anything to show that covid is a conspiracy or we're all boiling frogs.

US2

brianhere wrote: »

Anyway, to be fair, they are getting a bit more honest about it now:

These are the people who are running the show in the UK, like the Irish Nphet. Although for some it will always be a conspiracy theory no matter what happens!

Once you conform they were always going to keep these things permanent, moral of the story, don't conform to completely tyrannous outrageous government edicts and demands!

Btw, just one other thing that strikes me reading and listening to people about all this. Its very important that the blame for all this lies with the correct people. Its the government, more exactly its transnational and international overlords, and its, highly, paid lackeys in the media/science establishment that are doing this to us. Its not 'older selfish people' or uncontrollable 'younger people' or foreign travellers or 'super spreaders' etc etc. I think its very clear that you should not get into a blame game with fellow ordinary citizens in that way, but you should be angry with the government and get them to stop torturing people like this.

No one will reply to this because it cant be denied

runawaybishop

robinph wrote: »

So an individual country not being entirely truthful about their stats regarding covid makes sense. For whatever reason they don't want to admit to not doing so well on the international stage maybe, or they are just a country that lies to their population in order to keep them in line.

Now what has any of that to do with what the rest of the world is doing. If China is lying about their stats being low and the rest of the world is lying about theirs being high, what is the point in the rest of the world saying they have worse rates? Why are we being told that lots of people are dying from covid if its not true? If lots of people are not actually dying and China isn't lying then where is the conspiracy?

Whilst China might be lying, that doesn't do anything to show that covid is a conspiracy or we're all boiling frogs.

Exactly, its a common tactic - this bit is dodgey therefore it all must be!

Like look at the thread title - ALL measures will be permanent. Thats clearly horse**** but we still have posters in here trying to make out that covid/vaccines are fake as this will 'prove' the conspiracy that this is being done to make the restrictions permanent.

runawaybishop

US2 wrote: »

No one will reply to this because it cant be denied

Its the dailymail saying sensationalist nonsense, that's all they exist for.

Timberrrrrrrr

runawaybishop wrote: »

Exactly, its a common tactic - this bit is dodgey therefore it all must be!

Like look at the thread title - ALL measures will be permanent. Thats clearly horse**** but we still have posters in here trying to make out that covid/vaccines are fake as this will 'prove' the conspiracy that this is being done to make the restrictions permanent.

The title is all measures will be permanent

Still waiting for them to name one :pac:

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

So Cuba had an uptick in deaths in January...what's your point? I asked how a country of 11 million could have such a small death toll from Covid....among other countries. You've evaded that question yet accuse me of evasion.

How is it evasion if I gave you link with an explanation for the low reported death toll from Cuba?

As regards your evasion, I see no similar attempt from you to answer questions put to you.

And saying you don't have a crystal ball doesn't cut it.
Your crystal ball seems to work very well when you're telling us the future if we continue with the lockdown, and masks.
You're unwilling to say what will happen if we lifted the lockdown!!

PintOfView

ShatterAlan wrote: »

So Cuba had an uptick in deaths in January...what's your point? I asked how a country of 11 million could have such a small death toll from Covid....among other countries. You've evaded that question yet accuse me of evasion.

Cuba was still on my screen from this am - here is another interesting article from CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/cuba-coronavirus-lockdown-tourism/index.html

Quick quote from it:
"For more than six months Cuba has maintained one of the tightest lockdowns anywhere in the world to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.
All commercial air and maritime travel has been suspended since April 2, and anyone entering or leaving Cuba needs special government permission to do so."

It occurs to me, why don't you do some of this for yourself?

Instead of scatter gun accusations, and wild claims, and assumptions based on your pre-conceived notions, if you took a few minutes to google a couple of (reputable) sites you'd end up better informed and get less flak on here!

US2

runawaybishop wrote: »

Its the dailymail saying sensationalist nonsense, that's all they exist for.

It's the head of SAGE saying masks and distancing forever. Doesn't matter who printed the quote.

PintOfView

US2 wrote: »

It's the head of SAGE saying masks and distancing forever. Doesn't matter who printed the quote.

Realistically, do you think there will be masks and distancing forever?

And either way, I walked to the shop this am, put on a mask when I went in, took it off when I came out, and I was thinking what is all this conspiracy about masks?
What's the actual issue with it?

runawaybishop

US2 wrote: »

It's the head of SAGE saying masks and distancing forever. Doesn't matter who printed the quote.

This is wrong. May, Might and Possibly were the words that were actually used. The rag and some attention seeking Tory are sensationalising.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The title is all measures will be permanent

Still waiting for them to name one :pac:

The following measures will be permanent:

Masks. Professor Edmunds from SAGE said so the other day: "He told ITV’s Peston face masks could be required “probably forever” if COVID-19 becomes endemic in the UK." (from the Evening Standard).

And social distancing. Priti Patel said so in May: ""I think we all recognise social distancing is here to stay. Our lives are going to be very different." (from itv.com)

Dr. Bre

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The following measures will be permanent:

Masks. Professor Edmunds from SAGE said so the other day: "He told ITV’s Peston face masks could be required “probably forever” if COVID-19 becomes endemic in the UK." (from the Evening Standard).

And social distancing. Priti Patel said so in May: ""I think we all recognise social distancing is here to stay. Our lives are going to be very different." (from itv.com)

So the UK will never have music gigs on or pubs open again or no supporters in sports stadiums ?