All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not saying I believe they'll be permanent. Professor John Edmunds and Priti Patel are saying masks and social distancing are here to stay.

But like most conspiracy theorists, you're taking these comments out of context and using them to claim that they are revealing a giant sinister plan.

They aren't saying what you and other conspiracy theorists believe they are saying.

And again, like other conspiracy theorists before you, you've avoided the question. This is dishonest and reveals that your position on top of being weak is built on nothing.

So try again:

What do you believe will be permenant and how does it benefit the sinister cabal?

If you can't answer this directly, don't avoid it.

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no objection to vaccine passports for travel because there's a precedent for it with yellow fever. But I don't like the idea of people being banned from certain places because they're not vaccinated. That's what's happening in Israel.

I don't believe that this is an accurate claim.
Again, conspiracy theorists like yourself often misrepresent facts.
And without a source for your claim, I suspect this is the case.

Also, you claimed that this was the plan for the EU.
This is also a lie.

Could you also confirm whether or not you've actually read the Great Reset book.
I suspect that you also have not.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've no objection to vaccine passports for travel because there's a precedent for it with yellow fever. But I don't like the idea of people being banned from certain places because they're not vaccinated. That's what's happening in Israel.

I have a problem with vaccine passports if used as a method to enforce vaccines among local population, such as to go to the pub/ gym/ etc. But they are completely useless for that kind of thing. If the country infection levels are such that you need to prove vaccination before leaving your house for certain activities then the infection levels are too high and you shouldn't be leaving your house for those activities.

There is some logic to proving vaccination for travelling, but only in certain circumstances. Assuming no major hiccups with vaccines here won't be any need for proof of vaccination for travel within Europe as every country will be fairly similar levels of take up. However, if you are travelling somewhere with low vaccination levels it would make sense for your home country with high level of vaccination to require you to be vaccinated before they let you travel to somewhere with low levels and higher infection risk. The host country won't give a damn as their own population is unvacinated so another unvacinated person arriving makes no odds to them. It's you then returning home where the risk is.

Much like for yellow fever, the risk is from you bringing it back home with you after your travels, not from whatever happens to you whilst away.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not saying I believe they'll be permanent. Professor John Edmunds and Priti Patel are saying masks and social distancing are here to stay.

Just the opinions of two individuals, one of whom you are misunderstanding (Priti Patel)

If the virus persists, we may have to keep certain measures. Therefore if the virus persists and mutates for e.g. 5 years, we may have certain measures for those 5 years. And as mentioned, certain aspects, such as more working from home, are generally here to stay.

Conspiracy theorists believe something else entirely. They think that all of this is a "cover" for a secret plan to keep measures in place permanently to "control" the masses for reasons they can't articulate. They seize on anything that indicates a measure may run for a long time or even be permanent in order to "claim victory" that their conspiracy is correct.

Common sense measures against the virus have nothing to do with those notions by conspiracy theorists.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Just the opinions of two individuals, one of whom you are misunderstanding (Priti Patel)

If the virus persists, we may have to keep certain measures. Therefore if the virus persists and mutates for e.g. 5 years, we may have certain measures for those 5 years. And as mentioned, certain aspects, such as more working from home, are generally here to stay.

Conspiracy theorists believe something else entirely. They think that all of this is a "cover" for a secret plan to keep measures in place permanently to "control" the masses for reasons they can't articulate. They seize on anything that indicates a measure may run for a long time or even be permanent in order to "claim victory" that their conspiracy is correct.

Common sense measures against the virus have nothing to do with those notions by conspiracy theorists.

But they're not just any two individuals. One is an influential member of SAGE, the other is the Home Secretary of the UK. How am I misunderstanding what she said? WFH isn't social distancing. She said social distancing was here to stay. I take that to mean social distancing in shops, restaurants, bars, clubs, theatres etc.

Would you be happy to socially distance for 5 years and to wear a mask for 5 years?

robinph

robinph wrote: »

I have a problem with vaccine passports if used as a method to enforce vaccines among local population, such as to go to the pub/ gym/ etc. But they are completely useless for that kind of thing. If the country infection levels are such that you need to prove vaccination before leaving your house for certain activities then the infection levels are too high and you shouldn't be leaving your house for those activities.

There is some logic to proving vaccination for travelling, but only in certain circumstances. Assuming no major hiccups with vaccines here won't be any need for proof of vaccination for travel within Europe as every country will be fairly similar levels of take up. However, if you are travelling somewhere with low vaccination levels it would make sense for your home country with high level of vaccination to require you to be vaccinated before they let you travel to somewhere with low levels and higher infection risk. The host country won't give a damn as their own population is unvacinated so another unvacinated person arriving makes no odds to them. It's you then returning home where the risk is.

Much like for yellow fever, the risk is from you bringing it back home with you after your travels, not from whatever happens to you whilst away.

So do I. That's what's happening in Israel. And Micheál Martin said a few months ago that people might need to prove they've been vaccinated to go to the pub: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/taoiseach-says-people-could-prove-23328300

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

But like most conspiracy theorists, you're taking these comments out of context and using them to claim that they are revealing a giant sinister plan.

They aren't saying what you and other conspiracy theorists believe they are saying.

And again, like other conspiracy theorists before you, you've avoided the question. This is dishonest and reveals that your position on top of being weak is built on nothing.

So try again:

What do you believe will be permenant and how does it benefit the sinister cabal?

If you can't answer this directly, don't avoid it.

I don't believe that this is an accurate claim.
Again, conspiracy theorists like yourself often misrepresent facts.
And without a source for your claim, I suspect this is the case.

Also, you claimed that this was the plan for the EU.
This is also a lie.

Could you also confirm whether or not you've actually read the Great Reset book.
I suspect that you also have not.

So what did Priti Patel mean by "social distancing is here to stay"?

What did Professor John Edmunds mean by masks for ever? Did he mean masks for ever when he said masks for ever, or did he mean something else?

The EU is set to make a proposal for a vaccine passport. It's different from the domestic vaccine passport in Israel.

It doesn't matter what I think will be permanent. I'm not the one who makes the decisions. But it matters when Professor John Edmunds says masks will be required by law for ever and when the Home Secretary of the UK says social distancing is here to stay.

I have read the book. But there's a thread on the Great Reset and we should stick to discussing the covid measures here, I think.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

But they're not just any two individuals. One is an influential member of SAGE, the other is the Home Secretary of the UK. How am I misunderstanding what she said? WFH isn't social distancing. She said social distancing was here to stay. I take that to mean social distancing in shops, restaurants, bars, clubs, theatres etc.

Would you be happy to socially distance for 5 years and to wear a mask for 5 years?

And once again, we have a conspiracy theorist avoiding questions they don't want to answer.

Anyway, you've answered your own question here.
Please quote where either of their people say they mean social distancing in shops, restaurants, bars, clubs, theatres etc.
If you can't find this quote, don't avoid the point.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

But they're not just any two individuals. One is an influential member of SAGE, the other is the Home Secretary of the UK. How am I misunderstanding what she said? WFH isn't social distancing. She said social distancing was here to stay. I take that to mean social distancing in shops, restaurants, bars, clubs, theatres etc.

These are just individuals and what they say gets spun out of context. Why aren't you quoting the countless experts, scientists, politicians, etc who maintain that most measures will likely be lifted by summer?

Likewise, why would we be social distancing in shops if the virus is gone? Perhaps some measures/habits will linger around a while as a precaution, but if there's no reason to have it, then it won't stick around. We already lifted measures before quite easily.

Would you be happy to socially distance for 5 years and to wear a mask for 5 years?

Bizarre question.

a) this isn't going to happen

or

b) if in the unlikely case the virus really persists/mutates, then indeed we will have to use measures to reduce/mitigate it, as we do now.

None of this has anything to do with the conspiracy theories

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

So what did Priti Patel mean by "social distancing is here to stay"?

What did Professor John Edmunds mean by masks for ever?

I don't know. I don't believe that is what they said. Conspiracy theorists often mispresent quotes and statements.

Deleted User wrote: »

The EU is set to make a proposal for a vaccine passport. It's different from the domestic vaccine passport in Israel.

Ok. So you lied when you claimed that the EU were going to be using a health passport like in Israel.
You shouldn't lie. On top of making you look bad, it's wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't matter what I think will be permanent.

It does matter. If you can't provide an answer (and it's pretty clear you can't) then your conspiracy theory is vague to the point of meaninglessness.

You can't suggest what is going to be permanent because you don't know and don't have access to any special information or knowledge.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not the one who makes the decisions. But it matters when Professor John Edmunds says masks will be required by law for ever and when the Home Secretary of the UK says social distancing is here to stay.

Ok. How does this benefit the global cabal behind it all?
You keep avoiding this point, because like with the other question, you've no actual knowledge.
Just more vague meaningless fear mongering.

Deleted User wrote: »

I have read the book. But there's a thread on the Great Reset and we should stick to discussing the covid measures here, I think.

Cool. That gives you a leg up on previous conspiracy theorists who didn't read it.
So can you provide the quotes from the book that indicate that the WEF is planning any of the things you claimed they are?

robinph

Priti Patel doesn't get to determine what distance people are comfortable with being apart from each other in pubs or nightclubs after this is over. Whilst it's likely that people will naturally find a slightly different distance that is seen as polite for the next while, how long that goes on for is nothing to do with government policy.

Dohnjoe

Indeed and here are her comments. Note the crucial context which was left out, and the fact she made these comments in April last year.

Priti Patel has said life in Britain “will not go back” to how it was before the coronavirus outbreak, even after the current lockdown ends.

The home secretary said that while the government has not yet finalised plans of how restrictions will be lifted, there would be “new norms”.

Ms Patel told the Home Affairs Committee that social distancing would be expected in “every single work area” and on public transport.

“The fact is we will not go back to how we were in early March – there will be new norms that will inevitably come off the way in which social distancing is dominating our lives and has affected society,” she added.

“We would expect social distancing in every single work area, whether it’s an office or a construction site, and on public transport going forward.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-social-distancing-priti-patel-government-a9489901.html

I expect that my workplace will never look the same. Likewise I also expect that people will sit apart for quite awhile to come, especially on public transport where we will expect not to be crammed in with each other.

Context is everything.

runawaybishop

Deleted User wrote: »

So what did Priti Patel mean by "social distancing is here to stay"?

What did Professor John Edmunds mean by masks for ever? Did he mean masks for ever when he said masks for ever, or did he mean something else?

The EU is set to make a proposal for a vaccine passport. It's different from the domestic vaccine passport in Israel.

It doesn't matter what I think will be permanent. I'm not the one who makes the decisions. But it matters when Professor John Edmunds says masks will be required by law for ever and when the Home Secretary of the UK says social distancing is here to stay.

I have read the book. But there's a thread on the Great Reset and we should stick to discussing the covid measures here, I think.

Patel is a clown for one, and you have misquoted her.

I cant find Prof Edmunds stating mandatory masks forever, link please. What i did find was him saying we will need them for this year and maybe next year.

Dohnjoe

The irony of all this is that the Covid conspiracy theorists aren't actually saying anything of substance, they don't have any theory to start with.

They are literally just claiming that lockdown measures will be permanent, and that's it. No explanation why, no theory, no details of this "plan" and certainly no evidence.

So whenever anyone, anywhere hints that lockdown measures might go on longer than expected or that something might even be permanent, conspiracy theorists seize on this as "proof" that their non-theory is correct. It's a lazy form of thinking. Even flat earthers have some theory and at least try to provide some evidence.

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The irony of all this is that the Covid conspiracy theorists aren't actually saying anything of substance, they don't have any theory to start with.

They are literally just claiming that lockdown measures will be permanent, and that's it. No explanation why, no theory, no details of this "plan" and certainly no evidence.

Not only that, but throughout this thread we've seen every single conspiracy believer actively avoid and ignore this point.
They bend over backwards to not answer it. They ignore and deflect and run away.
They'll try to engage with other points if they think they can counter them or if they think they show someone up.
But this point? Won't even acknowledge it's existence.

The only explanation for this is that they know their vague claims are bull****. They know they can't supply anything to back them up or give them any substance.

Yet they still believe it.

Dr. Bre

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The irony of all this is that the Covid conspiracy theorists aren't actually saying anything of substance, they don't have any theory to start with.

They are literally just claiming that lockdown measures will be permanent, and that's it. No explanation why, no theory, no details of this "plan" and certainly no evidence.

So whenever anyone, anywhere hints that lockdown measures might go on longer than expected or that something might even be permanent, conspiracy theorists seize on this as "proof" that their non-theory is correct. It's a lazy form of thinking. Even flat earthers have some theory and at least try to provide some evidence.

Also for covid to be a conspiracy not only would you need government involved but health officials also from each country . That’s a lot of people involved ! Where did they all meet to plot this ??

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has the type of health passport in use in Israel, that is one that bans people from gyms, restaurants, theatres etc, been used before?

Do you find it strange that WEF would tweet that lockdowns are improving life in cities? If they think lockdowns are improving life in cities then that suggests to me that they think that life in cities would be worse with no lockdowns.

Professor John Edmunds said they'd be required by law for ever. He said it in a television interview. He didn't say people would choose to wear them. Would you be ok with them being required by law for ever?

Why did you quote the whole post except for this bit?

What measures do you believe will be permanent and why?

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed and here are her comments. Note the crucial context which was left out, and the fact she made these comments in April last year.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-social-distancing-priti-patel-government-a9489901.html

I expect that my workplace will never look the same. Likewise I also expect that people will sit apart for quite awhile to come, especially on public transport where we will expect not to be crammed in with each other.

Context is everything.

But she said made the point of saying "here to stay". She didn't say "for a while".

runawaybishop

runawaybishop wrote: »

Patel is a clown for one, and you have misquoted her.

I cant find Prof Edmunds stating mandatory masks forever, link please. What i did find was him saying we will need them for this year and maybe next year.

I didn't misquote her. I said that she said that social distancing was here to stay. What does 'here to stay' mean? Permanent?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9248999/Bristol-Covid-variant-reinfect-vaccinated-Britons-SAGE-expert-warns.html

"... SAGE expert Professor John Edmunds told ITV's Peston that most curbs on daily life — which may include the Rule of Six — are likely to be in force until the end of this year, while less restrictive curbs — like face mask wearing on public transport and indoors — could possibly be in place 'forever'."

runawaybishop

Deleted User wrote: »

But she said made the point of saying "here to stay". She didn't say "for a while".

Yes and she also wanted to starve us out of it to force the Brexit discussions to go their way. She's as thick as a plank, why would you believe anything she says? Oh of course, because it suits your preconceived ideas.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why did you quote the whole post except for this bit?

Because I don't think it mattes what I think as I'm not the one making the decisions.

runawaybishop

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't misquote her. I said that she said that social distancing was here to stay. What does 'here to stay' mean? Permanent?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9248999/Bristol-Covid-variant-reinfect-vaccinated-Britons-SAGE-expert-warns.html

"... SAGE expert Professor John Edmunds told ITV's Peston that most curbs on daily life — which may include the Rule of Six — are likely to be in force until the end of this year, while less restrictive curbs — like face mask wearing on public transport and indoors — could possibly be in place 'forever'."

:rolleyes:

runawaybishop

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes and she also wanted to starve out of it to force the Brexit discussions to go their way. She's as thick as a plank, why would you believe anything she says? Oh of course, because it suits your preconceived ideas.

So when the Home Secretary of the UK says "social distancing is here to stay" people should just ignore her?

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because I don't think it mattes what I think as I'm not the one making the decisions.

Why are you debating it if what you think doesn't matter?

runawaybishop

runawaybishop wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I had a feeling you'd focus on 'possibly'. That he's even suggesting it as a possibility should worry people. And 'possibly', 'could', 'might are often 'will' and 'definitely'.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So when the Home Secretary of the UK says "social distancing is here to stay" people should just ignore her?

I live in the UK, I have ignored everything she has ever said.

runawaybishop

Deleted User wrote: »

So when the Home Secretary of the UK says "social distancing is here to stay" people should just ignore her?

Yes.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why are you debating it if what you think doesn't matter?

I'm discussing what Professor Edmunds and the Home Secretary said. Isn't it better to discuss what they are saying than what someone who has no influence thinks?

runawaybishop

Deleted User wrote: »

I had a feeling you'd focus on 'possibly'. That he's even suggesting it as a possibility should worry people. And 'possibly', 'could', 'might are often 'will' and 'definitely'.

Here is the actual quote. Why are you being so dishonest?

But he warned some of the less-restrictive curbs, like social distancing or occasional mask-use, could be here 'forever'.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because I don't think it mattes what I think as I'm not the one making the decisions.

You are the one claiming there is a conspiracy happening, but you have yet to explain any of why these measures are being made permanent or who is wanting these measures to be permanent?

spring lane jack

This thread reminds me of a Larry Murphy's interview in which he tells the journalist "It’s always twisted. It’s always twisted around. Every time I say something it’s twisted."
Maybe a remix of Salt 'n'; Pepa's Twist and Shout with Larry Murphy could be strung together. Dohnjoe and KingMob Are ye any good at music production ?