Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

JDD

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They'll have some cheek, will probably be 10,000 plus people protesting in Dublin tomorrow I think. Both the left and right are protesting one for more restrictions and the other for less, should make for some good afternoon commentary...

There's two protests tomorrow - one for more restrictions and one for less restrictions? The more this pandemic goes on, the more I realise how many idiots surround us?

Would there be people out protesting because the government asked the church to postpone communions? I sincerely doubt it.

TonyMaloney

A survey in the Netherlands has suggested that most people who showed signs of having Covid-19 still had multiple symptoms nearly three months later.

Only 0.7 per cent of respondents said they were completely symptom-free 79 days after first showing signs of infection, according to research published on Thursday (Sept 10) in the European Respiratory Society’s Open Research journal.

The survey is the first to show only a partial recovery among a large sample of people, according to the researchers.
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/world/covid-19-symptoms-usually-last-months-large-scale-dutch-survey-suggests

https://www.todayonline.com/world/covid-19-symptoms-usually-last-months-large-scale-dutch-survey-suggests

Eod100

JDD wrote: »

There's two protests tomorrow - one for more restrictions and one for less restrictions? The more this pandemic goes on, the more I realise how many idiots surround us?

Would there be people out protesting because the government asked the church to postpone communions? I sincerely doubt it.

I think that majorly oversimplifies it. Will likely be a large right wing protest and small left wing counter protest.

Roots 2020

All can be done in Dublin, as many here have suggested, is limit contacts, SD, masks, hand washing.

However it looks like we're building a Covid seed base in the capital that will eventually spread to much of the country bar some of the BMW regions.

It's through no fault of Dublin. Our capital, high density of population.

Roots 2020

Roots 2020 wrote: »

I don't think Ferriter should be commenting on the pandemic in such a prominent way. A historian is not an epidemiologist in the same way a carpenter isn't a plumber.

a student of history myself and Diarmuid Ferriter is an excellent historian. But, as is typical of RTE, he has a monopoly on modern Irish history contributions to programmes. There are many equally as good historians who don't get a look in. That's true of cookery programmes, house renovations etc with RTE. Though at least in these scenarios they are working in their field of expertise.

Only nphet allowed to talk about pandemic. It sounds we are now in a police state and yet still few people are very sick in hospital with covid. Close all public debate.

TonyMaloney

Deleted User wrote: »

Only nphet allowed to talk about pandemic. It sounds we are now in a police state and yet still few people are very sick in hospital with covid. Close all public debate.

...said Woody on a public forum

Nermal

TonyMaloney wrote: »

https://www.todayonline.com/world/covid-19-symptoms-usually-last-months-large-scale-dutch-survey-suggests

"2113 members of two Facebook groups for coronavirus patients with persistent complaints in The Netherlands and Belgium, and from a panel of people who registered at a website of the Lung Foundation Netherlands, were assessed for demographics, pre-existing comorbidities, health status, date of symptoms onset, COVID-19 diagnosis, healthcare utilisation, and the presence of 29 symptoms at the time of the onset of symptoms (retrospectively) and at follow-up"

https://openres.ersjournals.com/content/erjor/early/2020/09/01/23120541.00542-2020.full.pdf

LOL, just LOL. Jesus. I fully admit I went to read this expecting to dismiss it as evidence of nothing more than hypochondria. I thought I might have to look a little deeper than five sentences into the abstract.

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

...said Woody on a public forum

Not sure the point your making. The poster said ferriter should not be talking about the pandemic. I thought there was free press in this country.

spookwoman

blowitupref wrote: »

Well that gives a better explanation for 210 cases to be confirmed later on

70791 tests carried out in the last 7 days. That must be the highest testing weekly figure so far?

Highest was on wednesday @ 71910

drunkmonkey

JDD wrote: »

There's two protests tomorrow - one for more restrictions and one for less restrictions? The more this pandemic goes on, the more I realise how many idiots surround us?

Would there be people out protesting because the government asked the church to postpone communions? I sincerely doubt it.

They are protesting exactly against that sort of thing. I just hope it's raining and NPHET see the mask brigade in damp masks and they'll call an end to the nonsense..

Roots 2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Only nphet allowed to talk about pandemic. It sounds we are now in a police state and yet still few people are very sick in hospital with covid. Close all public debate.

A line has to be drawn scientific articles and people with no expertise like Ferriter speaking about the necessity or otherwise of lockdowns. I much prefer to hear what someone with expertise on a virus has to say than a historian, even if it's Luke O'Neill:)

Eod100

This seems a bit premature. Maybe wait and see how we fare over winter first. https://www.rte.ie/amp/1164651/?__twitter_impression=true

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1304428619851280384?s=19

Arghus

d161 wrote: »

Is that because his viewpoint doesn't align with yours?

Not entirely.

I stated in my earlier post that his central point about authority being subject to scrutiny is a valid one. I don't believe NPHET are 100% right at all times and I also acknowledged in my post that he does raise the odd good point that throws NPHET's infallibility into question - for instance, their opinion that opening schools isn't that much of a risk, something I would question myself.

My main problem with the article is not his viewpoint per se - he believes NPHET should be open to scrutiny and alternative - and I presume he means scientifically rigorous - points of view should be heard. I don't disagree with any of this in principle; how could I? Broadly I'd be in agreement with that. But many of the examples he uses - strewn at random throughout the piece - are a mixture of badly outdated, debunked misinterpretations or shockingly oblivious to many important facts. Question NPHET, by all means, but base your arguments in rigor: don't just repeat the tired old arguments that you'll hear from a certain amount of the denizens of some quarters like here - that can be easily debunked. It undermines his argument.

Didn't the Imperial modeling (same one) when applied to Sweden, predict 100,000 deaths in Sweden if they didn't change?

I have no idea what the Imperial model predicted for Sweden, but my issue with his raising of Sweden is that he implied that Sweden took zero action against the virus and did okay. That isn't actually true - they didn't have a lockdown, but their were numerous restrictions placed on normal life in Sweden. It's a myth that the Swedes "did nothing" and obviously Ferriter doesn't actually know that much about the situation to perpetuate that myth.

Again is this because you disagree with the "Nobel Laureate" ?

Michael Levitt has been comprehensively factually incorrect in many of his assumptions and predictions since the very beginning of this crisis. Seriously, look it up. The guy is complete busted flush - total. His predictions about death rates, when the virus was going to burn out - about what, 6 weeks ago in Ireland according to him? months ago in the US - even his basic maths don't stack up. Levitt's predictions are a joke and for Ferriter to not be aware of this shows that he's merely seen Levitt's name and hasn't looked much further. Not good enough, in my view.

Do you not think it's about time there was a national debate on the way forward?

Absolutely: 100% But this piece is a very poor opening salvo, it's misinformed and above all intellectually lazy - if it's sign of things to come then I really wonder about how informed our debate will actually be.

Roots 2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure the point your making. The poster said ferriter should not be talking about the pandemic. I thought there was free press in this country.

While we're at it I'd like to hear what Jedward think about the pandemic.

timsey tiger

Seamai wrote: »

Well, I'd continue to leave people go to restaurants, cafes and bars that serve food but do everything to limit people visiting houses, unless it's an emergency but we know that's impossible to implement or patrol.

So, what are you going to do then? Some thing you know you can't or something else that you can, but don't want to?

Roots 2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure the point your making. The poster said ferriter should not be talking about the pandemic. I thought there was free press in this country.

I didn't say shouldn't be. I said given a prominent article in a major newspaper.

growleaves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Only nphet allowed to talk about pandemic. It sounds we are now in a police state and yet still few people are very sick in hospital with covid. Close all public debate.

Credentialism has reached undreamt-of heights, and not only that but a micro-specialism (Epidemiology) within the sciences is cited as the only legitimate source of opinion-forming. And even then dissenting epidemiologists are called cranks.

Roots 2020

Roots 2020 wrote: »

I didn't say shouldn't be. I said given a prominent article in a major newspaper.

I don't understand your point.

He writes for the Irish Times
and has done for many years.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1304428619851280384?s=19

Can the state though? Current testing capacity couldn't keep up with testing in community and meat plants. Prof Staines thinks we should be testing 100-125k routinely. Have to train up contact tracers too instead of taking them from specialist roles. There's thousands out there looking for work. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40046945.html%3ftype=amp

Roots 2020

Roots 2020 wrote: »

While we're at it I'd like to hear what Jedward think about the pandemic.

Comparing a well respected historian and journalist with the irish times is a fair comparision to Jedward. I agree your dead right :rolleyes:

smellyoldboot

Van.Bosch wrote: »

It’s subjective, I used to love a good collage

I always wonder do people who attend "collage" graduate. And if so what roles do they end up in. I'm going to say local politics.

Arghus

growleaves wrote: »

Credentialism has reached undreamt-of heights, and not only that but a micro-specialism (Epidemiology) within the sciences is cited as the only legitimate source of opinion-forming. And even then dissenting epidemiologists are called cranks.

I'd rather listen to the opinions of qualified epidemiologists when we are dealing with epidemiology than, I don't know, a car mechanic - or even a historian.

The cranks get called cranks.

d161

I don't have access to the article so I have no idea how well or badly written it was.

Arghus wrote: »

Not entirely.

I stated in my earlier post that his central point about authority being subject to scrutiny is a valid one. I don't believe NPHET are 100% right at all times and I also acknowledged in my post that he does raise the odd good point that throws NPHET's infallibility into question - for instance, their opinion that opening schools isn't that much of a risk, something I would question myself.

Agree with both points. Of course school openings will increase infections, but the schools have to open. It's not fair on our children if they don't.

My main problem with the article is not his viewpoint per se - he believes NPHET should be open to scrutiny and alternative - and I presume he means scientifically rigorous - points of view should be heard. I don't disagree with any of this in principle; how could I? Broadly I'd be in agreement with that. But many of the examples he uses - strewn at random throughout the piece - are a mixture of badly outdated, debunked misinterpretations or shockingly oblivious to many important facts. Question NPHET, by all means, but base your arguments in rigor: don't just repeat the tired old arguments that you'll hear from a certain amount of the denizens of some quarters like here - that can be easily debunked. It undermines his argument.

As I said above, I don't have access.

I have no idea what the Imperial model predicted for Sweden, but my issue with his raising of Sweden is that he implied that Sweden took zero action against the virus and did okay. That isn't actually true - they didn't have a lockdown, but their were numerous restrictions placed on normal life in Sweden. It's a myth that the Swedes "did nothing" and obviously Ferriter doesn't actually know that much about the situation to perpetuate that myth.

Again yes it's a falsehood to say Sweden did nothing. But they did less than us and I would say based on the numbers I've seen that they had an equal outcome in deaths (as a percentage of deaths per age group) and based on current numbers of infection it looks like either they have some herd immunity or social distancing is sufficient.
In either case our medical establishment should be looking to learn from Sweden.

Michael Levitt has been comprehensively factually incorrect in many of his assumptions and predictions since the very beginning of this crisis. Seriously, look it up. The guy is complete busted flush - total. His predictions about death rates, when the virus was going to burn out - about what, 6 weeks ago in Ireland according to him? months ago in the US - even his basic maths don't stack up. Levitt's predictions are a joke and for Ferriter to not be aware of this shows that he's merely seen Levitt's name and hasn't looked much further. Not good enough, in my view.

I have never been impressed by him tbh.

Absolutely: 100% But this piece is a very poor opening salvo, it's misinformed and above all intellectually lazy - if it's sign of things to come then I really wonder about how informed our debate will actually be.

Hardly unusual in Irish journalism.

podgeandrodge

Seamai wrote: »

Well, I'd continue to leave people go to restaurants, cafes and bars that serve food but do everything to limit people visiting houses, unless it's an emergency but we know that's impossible to implement or patrol.

Putting back Fri/Sat closing in pubs (that are open) from 1am clear out to 11.30pm clearout is seriously not helping in terms of persuading people not to finish off the night in a house after having a few scoops.

Someone said to me that some pubs have seen an increase in off license sales to people leaving at 11.30pm. If that's true it says a lot.

growleaves

Roots 2020 wrote: »

A line has to be drawn scientific articles and people with no expertise like Ferriter speaking about the necessity or otherwise of lockdowns. I much prefer to hear what someone with expertise on a virus has to say than a historian, even if it's Luke O'Neill:)

Since we don't live in a bubble with no past events ever having taken place, what we do in the present isn't only a matter for 'neutral' officials simply solving a scientific problem. Since lockdown affects everyone then it's not a neutral matter.

podgeandrodge

Oranage2 wrote: »

The game is up, a lockdown is imminent, get the toilet paper in early.

You still haven't volunteered your formula for others to improve upon it while you are busy.

Roots 2020

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand your point.

He writes for the Irish Times
and has done for many years.

A lot of people write for the Irish Times. His views are no more valid than their fashion correspondent, yours or mine. It's not his area.

He knows the history of the 1918/19 flu epidemic. But he's not medically trained or specialises in any field concerned with this virus.

He shouldn't have a 'prominent' role commentating on something he has no training in. Just because he's a 'name'. Why don't we put himself, Blathnaid, Ray Darcy etc on an expert panel if you need no credentials?

drunkmonkey

Eod100 wrote: »

I think that majorly oversimplifies it. Will likely be a large right wing protest and small left wing counter protest.

I've just realised there won't be any announcement of restrictions until it's over. Government would look like they've no control.

bpb101

Instead of locking down dublin, can we lockdown the rest of the country.

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