Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Roots 2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Comparing a well respected historian and journalist with the irish times is a fair comparision to Jedward. I agree your dead right :rolleyes:

You said it right there, he's a historian and journalist. Would you take George Lee's musings as gospel? He's an economist and respected news correspondent.

Roots 2020

growleaves wrote: »

Since we don't live in a bubble with no past events ever having taken place, what we do in the present isn't only a matter for 'neutral' officials simply solving a scientific problem. Since lockdown affects everyone then it's not a neutral matter.

That's the equivalent of saying since the Irish soccer team bus broke down there are no neutrals, it's a national matter, therefore not neutral. If the bus doesn't arrive at the stadium it effects us all.

Therefore all our opinions on how to fix the bus are equally valid.

growleaves

Arghus wrote: »

I'd rather listen to the opinions of qualified epidemiologists when we are dealing with epidemiology than, I don't know, a car mechanic - or even a historian.

The cranks get called cranks.

We're not 'dealing with epidemiology' exclusively though, the poster said he didn't want to hear what historians think about lockdowns.

Lockdowns are not a purely scientific matter since a prison-like readjustment of society has wide implications - it isn't just a technical detail if someone can't go 2.5km from their house.

I haven't read the Ferriter article so no thoughts on it but I'm defending historical context in general.

Non solum non ambulabit

owlbethere wrote: »

Dublin was a hotspot in the first wave of this. People who are holding out hope that the worst has passed us and a sizeable portion of the population have already been exposed are clutching at straws. Dublin is a hotspot again with cases climbing there.

Hotspot is relative. There are 1,200 active cases in Dublin from a population of 1,387,000 or 0.087% of the population.

That would not qualify as an epidemic in any shape or form.

Epidemic - a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

https://www.todayonline.com/world/covid-19-symptoms-usually-last-months-large-scale-dutch-survey-suggests

Woman flu?

The respondents’ median age was 47, while 85 per cent were female

Eod100

Interesting thread here: https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1304435816756895745?s=19

amadangomor

Ex off to the shops with a cough to get her wine with a cough. Refusing to call doctor. I'm waiting for test and self isolating.

Tried to talk sense and ended up in a shouting match.

JeffKenna

amadangomor wrote: »

Ex off to the shops with a cough to get her wine with a cough. Refusing to call doctor. I'm waiting for test and self isolating.

Tried to talk sense and ended up in a shouting match.

Why are you talking to an Ex?

Arghus

d161 wrote: »

I don't have access to the article so I have no idea how well or badly written it was.

Okay, well thank you for providing a critique to my opinions of an opinion piece that you yourself haven't read.

Agree with both points. Of course school openings will increase infections, but the schools have to open. It's not fair on our children if they don't.

I don't disagree that schools reopening is essential, but do I think the government have rushed into it with poor preparation and planning and a blasé attitude about potential outcomes - yes I do.

As I said above, I don't have access.

See point one

Again yes it's a falsehood to say Sweden did nothing. But they did less than us and I would say based on the numbers I've seen that they had an equal outcome in deaths (as a percentage of deaths per age group) and based on current numbers of infection it looks like either they have some herd immunity or social distancing is sufficient.
In either case our medical establishment should be looking to learn from Sweden.

I think what our medical establishment should primarily be looking to learn from Sweden is how to procure all the extra resources, training and hospital and ICU capacity that will put our health system on par with Sweden's.

I have never been impressed by him tbh.

Okay, then why challenge my issue with Ferriter using him as reference point - considering you also don't rate him?

Hardly unusual in Irish journalism.

Not unusual at all, but I expected better from Ferriter.

yourdeadwright

amadangomor wrote: »

Ex off to the shops with a cough to get her wine with a cough. Refusing to call doctor. I'm waiting for test and self isolating.

Tried to talk sense and ended up in a shouting match.

Sounds like you'd a lucky escape

JP Liz V1

DangerScouse wrote: »

Dublin needs stricter restrictions ASAP. Absolutely riddled at the minute.

121 today in Dublin, yes it needs some restrictions, no none essential travel in or out of Dublin

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

Not entirely.

I stated in my earlier post that his central point about authority being subject to scrutiny is a valid one. I don't believe NPHET are 100% right at all times and I also acknowledged in my post that he does raise the odd good point that throws NPHET's infallibility into question - for instance, their opinion that opening schools isn't that much of a risk, something I would question myself.

My main problem with the article is not his viewpoint per se - he believes NPHET should be open to scrutiny and alternative - and I presume he means scientifically rigorous - points of view should be heard. I don't disagree with any of this in principle; how could I? Broadly I'd be in agreement with that. But many of the examples he uses - strewn at random throughout the piece - are a mixture of badly outdated, debunked misinterpretations or shockingly oblivious to many important facts. Question NPHET, by all means, but base your arguments in rigor: don't just repeat the tired old arguments that you'll hear from a certain amount of the denizens of some quarters like here - that can be easily debunked. It undermines his argument.




I have no idea what the Imperial model predicted for Sweden, but my issue with his raising of Sweden is that he implied that Sweden took zero action against the virus and did okay. That isn't actually true - they didn't have a lockdown, but their were numerous restrictions placed on normal life in Sweden. It's a myth that the Swedes "did nothing" and obviously Ferriter doesn't actually know that much about the situation to perpetuate that myth.





Michael Levitt has been comprehensively factually incorrect in many of his assumptions and predictions since the very beginning of this crisis. Seriously, look it up. The guy is complete busted flush - total. His predictions about death rates, when the virus was going to burn out - about what, 6 weeks ago in Ireland according to him? months ago in the US - even his basic maths don't stack up. Levitt's predictions are a joke and for Ferriter to not be aware of this shows that he's merely seen Levitt's name and hasn't looked much further. Not good enough, in my view.





Absolutely: 100% But this piece is a very poor opening salvo, it's misinformed and above all intellectually lazy - if it's sign of things to come then I really wonder about how informed our debate will actually be.

Levitt’s name seems to raised every two weeks or so to back up some or other point of view. And in fairness to levitt his predictions have been pretty consistent throughout. Consistently disproven, usually within days of making them

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

Interesting thread here: https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1304435816756895745?s=19

Have to laugh at the first one. Inability to exit social distancing measures. Everyone knows we wont be exiting them any time soon

drunkmonkey

amadangomor wrote: »

Ex off to the shops with a cough to get her wine with a cough. Refusing to call doctor. I'm waiting for test and self isolating.

Tried to talk sense and ended up in a shouting match.

There are coughs out there believe it or not. I'd assume she knows her own body at this stage. Has she fever above 38?

amadangomor

JeffKenna wrote: »

Why are you talking to an Ex?

Still living in same house unfortunately.

yourdeadwright

JeffKenna wrote: »

Why are you talking to an Ex?

I presume kids involved ?
I suppose you can be friendly with an ex to,

growleaves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Levitt’s name seems to raised every two weeks or so to back up some or other point of view. And in fairness to levitt his predictions have been pretty consistent throughout. Consistently disproven, usually within days of making them

At least he makes falsifiable claims, instead of hypotheses which can't be verified but are assumed to be true just because and hey you're not an epidemiologist are you, where did you go to medical school etc., etc.

Roots 2020

growleaves wrote: »

We're not 'dealing with epidemiology' exclusively though, the poster said he didn't want to hear what historians think about lockdowns.

Lockdowns are not a purely scientific matter since a prison-like readjustment of society has wide implications - it isn't just a technical detail if someone can't go 2.5km from their house.

I haven't read the Ferriter article so no thoughts on it but I'm defending historical context in general.

I do take what your saying about the wider effect of lockdowns. But, for me anyway, science has to take precedence to protect lives and the health service. That's our starting point. Like all here I want to avoid lockdown if at all possible. For the economy, mental health most especially.

I think some journalists, celebs, historians can over step the mark on what they say as they feel their opinion carries more weight than it does in reality.

amadangomor

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There are coughs out there believe it or not. I'd assume she knows her own body at this stage. Has she fever above 38?

No, you need to self isolate and call a doctor if you have a cough.

I have the same symptoms and i'm waiting for a test even though I'm 99% sure it's a cold.

podgeandrodge

Roots 2020 wrote: »

A lot of people write for the Irish Times. His views are no more valid than their fashion correspondent, yours or mine. It's not his area.

He knows the history of the 1918/19 flu epidemic. But he's not medically trained or specialises in any field concerned with this virus.

He shouldn't have a 'prominent' role commentating on something he has no training in. Just because he's a 'name'. Why don't we put himself, Blathnaid, Ray Darcy etc on an expert panel if you need no credentials?

That nobel winner he refers to that is on the list of 'alternative views' has made a complete tit of himself many times. Called the end of the pandemic for Ireland a couple of months ago, and made many incorrect forecasts. Alternative views are always welcome, but outside uninformed views like most of us on here which is just about debate, the IT shouldn't be giving credence to what amounts to a bunch of attention seeking clowns most of whom aren't qualified to give an opinion, but live in their own echo chamber.

amadangomor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I presume kids involved ?
I suppose you can be friendly with an ex to,

Not if your forced to live in the same house.

Yeh, kids involved and she's saving deposit for her own house.

yourdeadwright

amadangomor wrote: »

Not if your forced to live in the same house.

Yeh, kids involved and she's saving deposit for her own house.

very selfish of her but sure look what can ye do ,

drunkmonkey

amadangomor wrote: »

No, you need to self isolate and call a doctor if you have a cough.

I have the same symptoms and i'm waiting for a test even though I'm 99% sure it's a cold.

You don't have to do anything. If your 99% sure it's a cold, it's a cold. A little bit of due diligence is required to take the strain off.

amadangomor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

very selfish of her but sure look what can ye do ,

Tried to keep my mouth shut when I heard her saying she was going to the shop but couldn't.

Sent her all the info today letting her know what she needs to do due to her symptoms.

In the row she said she doesn't have a cough when she's been coughing her lungs up all day. Self delusional and totally immature.

Treepole

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From our own experience about 2 weeks ago, although busier now.

Refereed Monday evening, text Tuesday morning, test Wednesday 11.30am, result by around 11am Friday and negative

That's week out of the workforce/school for everyone in your household.
That is too long.

amadangomor

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't have to do anything. If your 99% sure it's a cold, it's a cold. A little bit of due diligence is required to take the strain off.

If you are following the advice you have to self isolate and call your doctor when you have a cough.

Arghus

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't have to do anything. If your 99% sure it's a cold, it's a cold. A little bit of due diligence is required to take the strain off.

No: being 99% sure it's a cold means you're 99% sure it's a cold.

A person should still request a test if possible.

tobefrank321

bpb101 wrote: »

Instead of locking down dublin, can we lockdown the rest of the country.

#ControversialOpinions

Lockdown counties where its not spreading and leave open a county where it is spreading?

Funny.

bpb101

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Lockdown counties where its not spreading and leave open a county where it is spreading?

Funny.

Nothing to do with covid.

d161

Arghus wrote: »

Okay, well thank you for providing a critique to my opinions of an opinion piece that you yourself haven't read.

I don't disagree that schools reopening is essential, but do I think the government have rushed into it with poor preparation and planning and a blasé attitude about potential outcomes - yes I do.

See point one

I think what our medical establishment should primarily be looking to learn from Sweden is how to procure all the extra resources, training and hospital and ICU capacity that will put our health system on par with Sweden's.

Okay, then why challenge my issue with Ferriter using him as reference point - considering you also don't rate him?

Not unusual at all, but I expected better from Ferriter.

All this and I mostly agreed with you. A few points.

1) I wouldn't consider supporting the Irish Times financially.
2) The schools and government had almost 6 months to get the schools ready!

My daughter's school have reduced the number of desks in each class room and have 100 girls rotating in and out of the school hall for classes which they watch on their iphones. As my daughters classroom went from a capacity of 23 to 8, she spends 2/3rds of the day in and out of the hall. I wonder how all this movement helps with transmission.

3) Ditto with the HSE and extra resources. From what I can see they have very little to show for their six months. The Swedes pay a lot more tax than we do but they at least get something from it.

But that's the only lesson you can take from Sweden?? Get our health system like theirs.
This is why I challenged you, I don't think you are open to an alternative view.

I think I'd like to get our NPHET like theirs!