Argos can't see fault in tv

Sleeper12

Cork_Guest wrote:

A PCs primary function is not gaming, it isn’t even a secondary function, hence the fact that there are specific gaming consoles for gaming. Please point me towards these sport specific monitors, as they won’t be TVs at that point and I’ll be all over it, great for the rugby and I’m sure they’ll handle Netflix. Thanks.

Hang on. A pcs primary function is to run software. Games & video editing software is software. You are talking rubbish now

Gooey Looey

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

I know an IPTV isnt the best source, which is why i tried looking at football on youtube for reference and i see the same thing. Iv used the android box on a Bush tv from Argos and there’s no such issue, its this tv thats the problem

It might be a cheap tv but im asking to watch football on it, its a basic thing surely. Im not looking for a refund because im getting 28 instead of 30 fps on the PS4

Argos said they’ll only automatically refund something if its unused, otherwise has to be a fault

Im not surprised they arent seeing the fault while testing it in store because they’re watching it for a few seconds in the back room, if it was a ‘more obvious’ fault like a black line that you’d see on anything I’m sure they’d have been fine

Plug it into a decent satellite box, bet you'll not have any issue with a non compressed source

um7y1h83ge06nx

I think people are focusing too much on the soccer. I would imagine this issue affects any relatively fast moving picture including action films, games and some other sports.

SureYWouldntYa

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Plug it into a decent satellite box, bet you'll not have any issue with a non compressed source

What would that show the running youtube on the tv app or the ps4 app, both on wired 250mb broadband, would not show

It's not the source, nothing to do with that

Cork_Guest

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

I know an IPTV isnt the best source, which is why i tried looking at football on youtube for reference and i see the same thing. Iv used the android box on a Bush tv from Argos and there’s no such issue, its this tv thats the problem

It might be a cheap tv but im asking to watch football on it, its a basic thing surely. Im not looking for a refund because im getting 28 instead of 30 fps on the PS4

Argos said they’ll only automatically refund something if its unused, otherwise has to be a fault

Im not surprised they arent seeing the fault while testing it in store because they’re watching it for a few seconds in the back room, if it was a ‘more obvious’ fault like a black line that you’d see on anything I’m sure they’d have been fine

How did you pay? If by credit card then just call them and explain the situation and ask them to refund the cost.
If it were me I’d be in there saying I’m not accepting the product but I’m happy to pay a few extra bucks to change it for a better one.

You’re one downside here is you’re streaming the service, without seeing the throughout, latency and contention on your broadband service and home wifi then you can’t prove it’s the TV.

SureYWouldntYa

Celeste Prehistoric Splinter wrote: »

I think people are focusing too much on the soccer. I would imagine this issue affects any relatively fast moving picture including action films, games and some other sports.

Yes there was similar issues with the f1, its only when they'd change camera and the car comes on screen that you see anything, once its on screen and a bit more static there isn't anything really

For football its most noticeable when the ball has just been passed across the field and with the streak behind it you can't actually see the ball

SureYWouldntYa

Cork_Guest wrote: »

How did you pay? If by credit card then just call them and explain the situation and ask them to refund the cost.
If it were me I’d be in there saying I’m not accepting the product but I’m happy to pay a few extra bucks to change it for a better one.

You’re one downside here is you’re streaming the service, without seeing the throughout, latency and contention on your broadband service and home wifi then you can’t prove it’s the TV.

I did pay by card but doing a chargeback with the bank is a bit of a nuclear option, I'd be hesitant to do that

Store credit would be an acceptable compromise and something I'll propose when they get back to me if they still haven't seen the issue, I'd definitely do that before going to the bank

Sleeper12

https://lcdtvbuyingguide.com/hdtv/motion-lag.html

Worth having a read of the link above

Spleodar

It would be an interesting small claims case. I can’t see how a TV being unable to display a broadcast quality football match is fit for purpose.

Gaming is a different issue, but broadcast television should be displayed without issues.

Try tuning the tv to a match on Saorview, as it will eliminate any issues being caused by your set top box. If that’s still blurring, I can’t really see how the TV meets the requirement of being able to display tv signals.

SureYWouldntYa

Spleodar wrote: »

It would be an interesting small claims case. I can’t see how a TV being unable to display a broadcast quality football match is fit for purpose.

Gaming is a different issue, but broadcast television should be displayed without issues.

Try tuning the tv to match on Saorview as it will eliminate any issues being caused by your set top box. If that’s still blurring, I can’t really see how the TV meets the requirement of being able to display tv signals.

Well even if it interesting there's no way I'd be looking at doing that

I don't have the tv now and don't have any saorview or similar setups anyway, android box, ps4 and whatever apps are on the tv

Gooey Looey

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

What would that show the running youtube on the tv app or the ps4 app, both on wired 250mb broadband, would not show

It's not the source, nothing to do with that

The difference is the bitrate of the the stream after decompression. You cannot use an IPTV stream as a test. Any test of the TV needs to be using satellite or terrestrial

joeysoap

Do all TVs come with Saorview/ freeview now? Can you tune in to GAA match on Rte and is it still faulty?

runawaybishop

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

I did pay by card but doing a chargeback with the bank is a bit of a nuclear option, I'd be hesitant to do that

Store credit would be an acceptable compromise and something I'll propose when they get back to me if they still haven't seen the issue, I'd definitely do that before going to the bank

Ignore anything that lad says, he hasn't a clue. A chargeback will not work.

Argos tend to have very good customer care. Record the issues you are seeing on your phone and you may have a bit more luck. You are reliant on their good will for a refund or exchange so explain that your expectations were not met and ask can you get a different model or shop credit.

You can also try a direct source, i.e sky box, saorview to eliminate any streaming issues and you should Google the exact model and see what options there are for disabling image processing as that can cause blur on fast moving objects.

Edit: what is the exact model of the TV?

Fyi Hitachi seem to call it reel120 - look in advanced video settings and turn that off. It's also called interpolation, motion smoothing etc.

kirving

Cork_Guest wrote: »

right well let’s see if we can get you a better TV for a little extra or if not here’s your money back because I need you as a return customer rather than go to my competitor’

Having the attitude that it’s the OPs fault and so he’s lost his money and stuck with it does all of us no favours!

I agree with all of that, the retailer should be more understanding, as it's a fair expectation to show football to a watchable level.

But at the same time, assessing the TV with a dodgy source isn't an accurate measurement of it's performance.

The first thing many of those streams do is drop the frame rate to minimise bandwidth. In some ways, a newer cheaper TV with poor software is worse than an older cheap TV with no software which tries to correct the image.


It's a toss of a coin really whether your TV (or ANY TV) does a good job of correcting poor streams. Turn off any and all processing and see how it goes. Even settings called "anti-blur" will more often than not make the picture worse rather than better.

whiterebel

The bank very likely wouldn't entertain a chargeback.

beaufoy

antix80 wrote: »

I bought a budget Philips 32 inch for the bedroom and immediately was disappointed by the sound and screen brightness/contrast. That's the problem when you're spolied from watching a 50.inch Samsung.
Need to manage expectations

Funny I bought a 50 inch QLED samsung and it is rubbish, and the samsung engineer did not deny it is rubbish. He agreed the skin tone is not very good and dark scenes leave much to be desired but he blamed it on the upscalling from HD to UHD tv and said the tv is up to normal standard for the lower end of samsungs high budget tvs. In my opinion (apart from waterfalls bridges and sky scraper buildings) the 21inch sony trinitron of 30 years ago gave a much better picture. It is the same reason why analoge LP's give a better sound than digital cds. With the non HD tv everything went up and down with a curve, but with Samsung Qled and to a certain degree all HD tvs things are either yes or no. This shows watching the irish man on netflix on a samsung QLED tv. There is a scene in a dark bar. Al pachino's face on the lite focus point is perfect, but the darker side of his face does not exist on the samsung QLED tv. On the 30 year old sony the better side of al's face would not be so good, but the darker side would be much better thus making a more realistic picture

Cork_Guest

runawaybishop wrote: »

Ignore anything that lad says, he hasn't a clue. A chargeback will not work.

Argos tend to have very good customer care. Record the issues you are seeing on your phone and you may have a bit more luck. You are reliant on their good will for a refund or exchange so explain that your expectations were not met and ask can you get a different model or shop credit.

You can also try a direct source, i.e sky box, saorview to eliminate any streaming issues and you should Google the exact model and see what options there are for disabling image processing as that can cause blur on fast moving objects.

Edit: what is the exact model of the TV?

Fyi Hitachi seem to call it reel120 - look in advanced video settings and turn that off. It's also called interpolation, motion smoothing etc.

Do you work for VISA or a bank to be in the position to say that I don’t have a clue?

VISA dispute resolution is there for exactly this reason.

But thanks for the knock on your first comment to me. Appreciate it ðŸ‘

beaufoy

Dav010 wrote: »

It is fulfilling its basic function, just not to the ops expectation. That does not make it unfit for purpose.

If a 500 euro brand new tv from argos just gives sound and vision that is not good enough, you should expect more

runawaybishop

Cork_Guest wrote: »

Do you work for VISA or a bank to be in the position to say that I don’t have a clue?

VISA dispute resolution is there for exactly this reason.

But thanks for the knock on your first comment to me. Appreciate it ðŸ‘

You haven't a clue. Stop giving the op incorrect advice.

beaufoy

Dav010 wrote: »

Please show me where every TV must meet the purchasers expectations.

Your car should steer in a straight line, but it doesn’t have to go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds.

if the purchaser has reasonable expectations and has paid enough money then the tv should meet purchasers expectations

runawaybishop

beaufoy wrote: »

if the purchaser has reasonable expectations and has paid enough money then the tv should meet purchasers expectations

This is wrong. The TV specifications are published. It is up to the purchaser to ensure those specifications are suitable for their needs.

beaufoy

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Bought a tv in Argos a couple weeks ago, only last week when watching football did i notice a problem with the tv, when anyone hits the ball its like lag with the ball or a bit of motion blur, very annoying and very hard to watch football with, I've also noticed it with anything fast moving on screen

Thought Argos would be happy to give a refund once I explained the issue, but they asked to hold it for the evening to see the issue themselves. Got a call earlier from manager saying she couldn't see anything wrong, asked if i could come in and show her the issue, I did and despite pointing out the issue to them it was hard to see what the problem was so couldn't approve a refund, they asked to hold on to it longer and perhaps bring the issue to the manufacturer

I don't think they'll see the issue even with the extra time, while its the sort of thing you'll clearly see when sitting down to watch the game, setting it up in the corner of a storeroom isn't the same

What might my options be with this? Do I have any recourse if they can't see the issue but I definitely can

Argos are owned by sainsburys but do not have the same level of competence are are both ignorant and stupid. I asked to see the manager at the castlebar branch and the assistant said he will be going to lunch soon come back in one and a half hours. I said I can't I have an important meeting to go to, and I was told I was being ignorant expecting the manager to postpone his lunch by ten minutes just so I could go to a meeting.

beaufoy

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is wrong. The TV specifications are published. It is up to the purchaser to ensure those specifications are suitable for their needs.

Rubbish most people would not understand specs...The picture should be pleasing to the eye

Cork_Guest

runawaybishop wrote: »

You haven't a clue. Stop giving the op incorrect advice.

Wow! You’re a nice person aren’t ya! For someone who’s so adamant I don’t know what I’m talking about, you don’t say much about how the VISA chargeback dispute does work!! Joker! Get anger management, you’re a prime candidate!

kirving

beaufoy wrote: »

Rubbish most people would not understand specs...The picture should be pleasing to the eye

Incidentally, the "pleasing to the eye" standard is actually what's used by many camera and display manufacturers, rather than outright specification, to determine whether a product is good or bad. A perfectly sharp image for example doesn't necessarily look good.

The issue there is that we do not know how much, if any, processing the IPTV box is doing, and at what bitrate and frame rate it's outputting an image.

Cork_Guest

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is wrong. The TV specifications are published. It is up to the purchaser to ensure those specifications are suitable for their needs.

Wow! And you give out to me about incorrect advice! Post these specifications you speak of that align HZ rates in comparison to different speed sports!!

You are exactly what’s wrong with why we all get charged more for things than other countries! Bow down to your retail masters and take it up the hoop why don’t ya, sure why not even pay more than the list price just because why not! Jesus!!!

Nigzcurran

I have an LG OLED and if I dont have all the settings exactly perfect then it suffers with judder and that’s either playing IPTV through a firestick or direct satellite through an amiko alien. Once you get the Trumotion settings on the TV sorted it can give amazing results

L1011

Cork_Guest wrote: »

Wow! And you give out to me about incorrect advice! Post these specifications you speak of that align HZ rates in comparison to different speed sports!!

You are exactly what’s wrong with why we all get charged more for things than other countries! Bow down to your retail masters and take it up the hoop why don’t ya, sure why not even pay more than the list price just because why not! Jesus!!!

Your posting standard leaves a lot to be desired. Calm it down many notches

Cork_Guest

L1011 wrote: »

Your posting standard leaves a lot to be desired. Calm it down many notches

Does RunawayBishops standard meet requirements? First and 2nd ever posts to me publicly saying I haven’t got a clue. Not exactly friendly.

L1011

Cork_Guest wrote: »

Does RunawayBishops standard meet requirements? First and 2nd ever posts to me publicly saying I haven’t got a clue. Not exactly friendly.

If you have a problem with a post, you report it.

Do not reply to this post

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

if the purchaser has reasonable expectations and has paid enough money then the tv should meet purchasers expectations

I’d agree with you if it was HDMI to sky box, but streaming from IPTV? Get a grip.

antix80

Cork_Guest wrote: »

Wow! You’re a nice person aren’t ya! For someone who’s so adamant I don’t know what I’m talking about, you don’t say much about how the VISA chargeback dispute does work!! Joker! Get anger management, you’re a prime candidate!

Chargeback would not be for this type of dispute.

L1011

Cork_Guest has decided that they don't want to abide by the basic rules of the site and has left in a huff. Don't bother replying to their posts

bobbyy gee

how to fix in settings
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ikR13KgQIXU

runawaybishop

beaufoy wrote: »

Rubbish most people would not understand specs...The picture should be pleasing to the eye

Buyer beware. If you don't understand what you are buying them you can't argue it doesn't perform as designed.

Sleeper12

beaufoy wrote:

Argos are owned by sainsburys but do not have the same level of competence are are both ignorant and stupid. I asked to see the manager at the castlebar branch and the assistant said he will be going to lunch soon come back in one and a half hours. I said I can't I have an important meeting to go to, and I was told I was being ignorant expecting the manager to postpone his lunch by ten minutes just so I could go to a meeting.

Eh, manager is entitled to his/her lunch break the same as any other employee. You were out of line trying to mess with a working man's personal time imo. Your business meeting isn't more important than someone's legally entitled break.

This sort of proves that customer isn't always right.

Sleeper12

Cork_Guest wrote:

Wow! And you give out to me about incorrect advice! Post these specifications you speak of that align HZ rates in comparison to different speed sports!!

I posted a link already explaining this exact thing. Read the thread again. This isn’t a new thing HZ rates have effected fast moving objects since the invention of HD TVs. I have read it in literally hundreds of TV reviews.

runawaybishop

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I posted a link already explaining this exact thing. Read the thread again. This isn’t a new thing HZ rates have effected fast moving objects since the invention of HD TVs. I have read it in literally hundreds of TV reviews.

Indeed. TVs display 50 or 60 frames a second, the signal however sends only 25/30 (depending on where you are in the world). Modern tvs use interpolation to predict what the next frame will be and create a new frame to go between the actual frames being received. This can cause a blur or ghosting especially in fast moving objects and is why in lower quality TVs it is recommended to disable this processing for sports especially.

Sleeper12

runawaybishop wrote:

Indeed. TVs display 50 or 60 frames a second, the signal however sends only 25/30 (depending on where you are in the world). Modern tvs use interpolation to predict what the next frame will be and create a new frame to go between the actual frames being received. This can cause a blur or ghosting especially in fast moving objects and is why in lower quality TVs it is recommended to disable this processing for sports especially.

You said it better than I ever could.

kirving

Exactly, and to compound that, many IPTV streams drop this to 15-20fps, and also resolution, in order to get a fluid picture rather than risk buffering live TV.

antix80

Do you remember how great donkey kong country on the snes looked... On your 21" philips tube crt. Imagine how awesome it would look nowadays on a 60" oled display.... . It doesn't work like that.
It's not all rose-tinted glasses. The experience was better and new devices likely can't even display output from old consoles.

Do you remember people still bought plasmas even though LCDs had higher res (and if you bought an lcd, could you bring it back because dark movies looked better on your old CRT and the speakers were better too?)

The best analogy for a tv is a car. They all have an ignition, brake and accelerator but your experience can vary. They're all capable of driving on surfaces other than tarmac. They're all capable of driving at 140kph. Most are capable of carrying 5 adult passengers and luggage in the boot. Why spend €40k when the Dacia Sandero is under €11k?

SureYWouldntYa

antix80 wrote: »

Do you remember how great donkey kong country on the snes looked... On your 21" philips tube crt. Imagine how awesome it would look nowadays on a 60" oled display.... . It doesn't work like that.
It's not all rose-tinted glasses. The experience was better and new devices likely can't even display output from old consoles.

Do you remember people still bought plasmas even though LCDs had higher res (and if you bought an lcd, could you bring it back because dark movies looked better on your old CRT and the speakers were better too?)

The best analogy for a tv is a car. They all have an ignition, brake and accelerator but your experience can vary. They're all capable of driving on surfaces other than tarmac. They're all capable of driving at 140kph. Most are capable of carrying 5 adult passengers and luggage in the boot. Why spend €40k when the Dacia Sandero is under €11k?

Except im not complaining about being unable to see a players shirt number from a distance like you might be able on a €1000+ tv, im talking about the streak the ball creates when its moving on screen

Its more like a car screeching when you put on the heat, or the fog lights only lighting up the ditch as opposed to the road if you’re going to go for car analogies

runawaybishop

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Except im not complaining about being unable to see a players shirt number from a distance like you might be able on a €1000+ tv, im talking about the streak the ball creates when its moving on screen

Its more like a car screeching when you put on the heat, or the fog lights only lighting up the ditch as opposed to the road if you’re going to go for car analogies

Anyway, have you checked the notion blur settings or checked a different source?

SureYWouldntYa

runawaybishop wrote: »

Anyway, have you checked the notion blur settings or checked a different source?

Yes i played around with every setting that googling how to fix motion blur recommended

I tried changing every setting on the tv up and down to see if it made any difference, whether it was high contrast or low brightness whatever it was the same thing was on screen

Iv mainly tried 3 sources - the android box (which has worked perfectly on other tvs so this isnt the problem), as well as youtube on ps4 and the tv app, same thing on all of them

antix80

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Except im not complaining about being unable to see a players shirt number from a distance like you might be able on a €1000+ tv, im talking about the streak the ball creates when its moving on screen

Its more like a car screeching when you put on the heat, or the fog lights only lighting up the ditch as opposed to the road if you’re going to go for car analogies

I'd say it's more like not having power to overtake. Acceleration in a car is analogous to picture quality on a tv.

You can always pick holes in analogies.

You bought a dog of a tv. Post the make and model and we'll see what the reviews say.

Bit of a tip... Do a firmware update. Unlikely to fix anything but small possibility it will.

SureYWouldntYa

antix80 wrote: »

I'd say it's more like not having power to overtake. Acceleration in a car is analogous to picture quality on a tv.

You can always pick holes in analogies.

You bought a dog of a tv. Post the make and model and we'll see what the reviews say.

Bit of a tip... Do a firmware update. Unlikely to fix anything but small possibility it will.

Its a Hitachi 50hk25t74u. Reviews arent great but i thought it would have been serviceable at a minimum, i wasnt looking for the best contrast or framerates or any mad features just a basic tv that does the job

Nigzcurran

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Its a Hitachi 50hk25t74u. Reviews arent great but i thought it would have been serviceable at a minimum, i wasnt looking for the best contrast or framerates or any mad features just a basic tv that does the job

You got what you paid for unfortunately. A basic tv.

antix80

£300 in argos for a 50" screen...

Quick google reveals it's made for argos shoppers.

Older model but for all intents and purposes it's what you bought.. https://www.whathifi.com/hitachi/50hyt62u/review
They gave the Turkish/Argos effort 2/5 and describe it as for people who put a big screen over picture quality. It's described as "It is a sharp picture, it’s true ­– but artificially so. The processing seems a little too zealous,"

If you google harder you might find a similarly mediocre review for your model.

For £100 more i bought this 6 mths ago and it is quality. Samsung 55 Inch UE55RU7020 Smart 4K HDR LED TV
Haven't tested it with football mind you.

Spleodar

joeysoap wrote: »

Do all TVs come with Saorview/ freeview now? Can you tune in to GAA match on Rte and is it still faulty?

If it's a television it can tune to Saorview. Any cheap UHF antenna plugged into the back of it will likely get you a signal.

antix80

Spleodar wrote: »

If it's a television it can tune to Saorview.

Not true