Rushed Covid 19 vaccine

FutureTeashock

<Snip if you have a problem with a moderator decision PM the corresponding moderator. Thanks>

FutureTeashock

Deleted User wrote: »

Genetic modification makes perfect sense to me. I'll enjoy being a genetically enhanced human immune to the virus while you enjoy your 2 weeks sick leave every 3 months.

You are making an informed decision to take the experimental vaccine and that is 100% your right to do so. I respect your choice as I'm sure you respect my choice to say NO.

The Nal

FutureTeashock wrote: »

How many of those deaths were directly due to Covid-19? And how many of the deaths were falsely labelled as below...

Florida COVID-19 fatalities data included man who died in motorcycle accident

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/data-analytics/florida-covid-19-fatalities-data-included-man-who-died-in-motorcycle-accident.html

Already been debunked. Was initially put down as a covid death as he'd tested positive for Covid. Was removed shortly after when they realised the death was from a crash.

statesaver

I won't be first in the queue that's for sure and have talked to no one who wants to be first to take it. Interesting times ahead.

FutureTeashock

The Nal wrote: »

Already been debunked. Was initially put down as a covid death as he'd tested positive for Covid. Was removed shortly after when they realised the death was from a crash.

Even the CDC has confirmed that only 6% of Covid deaths are solely due to the virus.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm


The game is over. Covid is not the deadly virus once thought.

Obviously people with underlying conditions need to be vigilant, but healthy individuals have little to worry about.

MOH

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Even the CDC has confirmed that only 6% of Covid deaths are solely due to the virus.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm


The game is over. Covid is not the deadly virus once thought.

Obviously people with underlying conditions need to be vigilant, but healthy individuals have little to worry about.

This is absolute bollocks. How dare you spread such rubbish!:mad:


(did I do it right? :rolleyes:)

FutureTeashock

MOH wrote: »

This is absolute bollocks. How dare you spread such rubbish!:mad:


(did I do it right? :rolleyes:)

I think you're doing a great job of putting people off taking the rushed, experimental vaccine.

None of your posts will assuage people's concerns about the DNA scrambling vaccine.

Keep it up!:o

Sir Guy who smiles

FutureTeashock wrote: »

You are uneducated.

Genetic Engineering Could Make a COVID-19 Vaccine in Months Rather Than Years


The blueprint is made of DNA or RNA—molecules that hold genetic instructions. The researchers then inject the DNA or RNA into human cells. The cell’s machinery uses the instructions to make virus antigens that the immune system reacts to.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/genetic-engineering-could-make-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-months-rather-than-years1/

Explain it to me so.

How many of a persons chromosomes would be modified by this process? All 46, or just a few?
And does it modify X or Y chromosomes, so there would be a difference in effect between males and females?
Or is it mitochondrial DNA that is modified?

FutureTeashock

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

Explain it to me so.

How many of a persons chromosomes would be modified by this process? All 46, or just a few?
And does it modify X or Y chromosomes, so there would be a difference in effect between males and females?
Or is it mitochondrial DNA that is modified?

The article succinctly explains how these experimental vaccines work. I suggest you take the time to read it (if you can).

The fundamental point is these vaccines are new, experimental, untested, and I won't be taking one.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Even the CDC has confirmed that only 6% of Covid deaths are solely due to the virus.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm


The game is over. Covid is not the deadly virus once thought.

Obviously people with underlying conditions need to be vigilant, but healthy individuals have little to worry about.

You are misrepresenting that figure.
And this conspiracy claim has already been thoroughly debunked.

A bit hypocritical for you to fly off the handle for what you believe were incorrect figures, but then spread this factoid as gospel truth.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

You are misrepresenting that figure.
And this conspiracy claim has already been thoroughly debunked.

A bit hypocritical for you to fly off the handle for what you believe were incorrect figures, but then spread this factoid as gospel truth.

The population of Sweden is 10 million, there have been allegedly 5.860 deaths due to covid 19, which is what, 0.0586% of the country?

There have been no lock downs, mask wearing, social distancing or any of that bollocks.

Debunk that!:o

patnor1011

MOH wrote: »

I'm not sure you realise what a debate it. Generally, there's a topic, one side makes statements in favour of it, the other side challenges and rebuts those claims. And it goes back and forth like that.

It's not "here's my opinion / somebody asks questions / here's more of my opinion; no more questions allowed"

I do, I am not sure you understand what a civilised debate is.
All fine and dandy until one side start throwing insults on another one.

MOH wrote: »

This is a fundamental flaw in your whole theory. Currently there have been a total of just over 30 million cases worldwide, 23 million resolved, 22 million recorded and a million deaths.
(Let ignore the potential long term effects on those who have recovered since there's scant data on that beyond the fact that some people are severely affected, some are totally fine, some are in between.)

Mortality rate is just over 4% and a million deaths in 6 months, during which period most countries had some form of restrictions - if you look at the graph of total cases you can clearly see where it tapers down from exponential growth around the end of March/start of April, which is when most countries started implementing lockdowns. Without that, it's not ridiculous to expect that a huge percentage of the world's population would eventually have been infected.

That number currently stands at 7.8 billion. 4% of that is 312 million.
Lets randomly assume the mortality rate somehow dropped to 1% overall - 78 million.
Let's really restrict the virus, and only allow 10% to get infected - 7.8 million deaths.

Even ridiculously hobbled, your "absolutely harmless" virus is less benign than Hitler.

You are asuming too much. Numbers and data are rather more telling than asumptions.
As of today 950k people died with covid. Undoubtedly some of them died from covid. However, during the same timeframe 36,000,000 people died, roughly 150k of people die every day.

And your asumptions about 4% mortality rate are straight from science-fiction realm.
Take New York which was one of the most dense places and also one of the most affected yet at the peak of pandemic they managed to get just 1.4% infection fatality rate and 0.28% crude mortality rate.

Your 4% asumption is the same as Imperial college of London model failure.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The population of Sweden is 10 million, there have been allegedly 5.860 deaths due to covid 19, which is 0.0586% of the country.

There have been no lock downs, mask wearing, social distancing or any of that bollocks.

Debunk that!:o

Sorry I made a previous point. You have now dodged that point to jump to a new point.
This is a very dishonest tactic.
One I think you'd repeat if I tried to address this new random point.

Why did you do this?
Do you think this is an honest tactic?
Why do you have to resort to things like this?

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry I made a previous point. You have now dodged that point to jump to a new point.
This is a very dishonest tactic.
One I think you'd repeat if I tried to address this new random point.

Why did you do this?
Do you think this is an honest tactic?
Why do you have to resort to things like this?

I presented a link showing only 6% of deaths connected to Covid were due to the virus itself and you said it's been debunked, without explaining how.

You keep using the Journal's tactic of stating something's been debunked but never actually presenting a compelling case.

patnor1011

MOH wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but:

22.8 million resolved cases
950K deaths

=> 4.15%


If you are being serious and that's the level of discussion you employ then I think the world is safe from your crackpot theories.

Crackpot theory is to divide "resolved cases" by number of deaths disregarding number of tested people and mainly what caused the death.
950k of people died with covid and not from it.

bfa1509

This thread sickens me! How dare people question what is being pumped into their circulation system. Unless you have a doctorate in immunology and medicine from RCSI you have no right to know or question anything the Experts tell us.



In all seriousness though, the people who annoy me most in any debate are the people who say "we have to trust the experts" or "you can't have an opinion if you don't have a qualification in this field" - These are absolute bullhsit arguments. Anyone who claims to be an "expert" on anything is filling you up with crap. Some of the biggest idiots I know have phd's so that puts qualifications out the window in my opinion also.

patnor1011

bfa1509 wrote: »

This thread sickens me! How dare people question what is being pumped into their circulation system. Unless you have a doctorate in immunology and medicine from RCSI you have no right to know or question anything the Experts tell us.



In all seriousness though, the people who annoy me most in any debate are the people who say "we have to trust the experts" or "you can't have an opinion if you don't have a qualification in this field" - These are absolute bullhsit arguments. Anyone who claims to be an "expert" on anything is filling you up with crap. Some of the biggest idiots I know have phd's so that puts qualifications out the window in my opinion also.

Some people found their life calling moment in this pandemic. They usually have a lot of time on their hands so they soak up everything they can find on internet and suddenly became infectious disease experts. In their minds that is.

FutureTeashock

People would never get on a plane with an engine newly designed in the space of a few months using experimental technology, so why on earth are they so willing to have a Covid vaccine?

It baffles me to be honest.

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I presented a link showing only 6% of deaths connected to Covid were due to the virus itself and you said it's been debunked, without explaining how.

You keep using the Journal's tactic of stating something's been debunked but never actually presenting a compelling case.

But it has been debunked.
It's pretty obvious how it's been debunked.

Of the other 94% percent of cases of people who died with Corona, what were the other reasons given on the death cert?

On American death certs in particular, the way they fill them out often includes multiple things.
For example: they would give the cause of death as "respiratory failure" with Corona given in the next line, which would mean that it was brought on by the virus.

According to you and the conspiracy theory you're presenting such a person just died randomly of respiratory failure and them having Corona virus was just a wacky coincidence.

This is a silly thing to believe.

So please provide a breakdown of the other 94% of the people listed and show that they all died of stuff unrelated from Corona virus.
If you can't provide such a breakdown, then your claim is debunked.

bfa1509

FutureTeashock wrote: »

People would never get on a plane with an engine newly designed in the space of a few months using experimental technology, so why on earth are they so willing to have a Covid vaccine?

It baffles me to be honest.

Bring up this point in a group of sheeple and some idiot is going to say "flying is 100% safe - you have more chance of dying in a car on the way to the airport than you do during a flight"

I always respond with - find me the statistic that shows your chances of survival if you so happen to be in an accident in one of these vehicles.

The same applies with the vaccine. The companies selling them show us all the rose-tinted statistics. Statistics is the tool you use to communicate exactly what your data is not telling you.

patnor1011

FutureTeashock wrote: »

People would never get on a plane with an engine newly designed in the space of a few months using experimental technology, so why on earth are they so willing to have a Covid vaccine?

It baffles me to be honest.

It gets even better. Even if we accept that it is possible to develop and test new medicinal technology in a relatively short time cos' "its science duh"...
We disregard any potential long term damage which may result and it is not going to be obvious as we cant speed that one up no matter what. While we also hear scary stories about possible long time damage from covid...

So we should be scared about possible hidden covid damage which can manifest later on but we should accept never properly tested new technology with possible hidden risks. If not, then we are branded conspiracy theorists. Lol it cant get any better than that.

FutureTeashock

King Mob wrote: »

But it has been debunked.
It's pretty obvious how it's been debunked.

Of the other 94% percent of cases of people who died with Corona, what were the other reasons given on the death cert?

On American death certs in particular, the way they fill them out often includes multiple things.
For example: they would give the cause of death as "respiratory failure" with Corona given in the next line, which would mean that it was brought on by the virus.

According to you and the conspiracy theory you're presenting such a person just died randomly of respiratory failure and them having Corona virus was just a wacky coincidence.

This is a silly thing to believe.

So please provide a breakdown of the other 94% of the people listed and show that they all died of stuff unrelated from Corona virus.
If you can't provide such a breakdown, then your claim is debunked.

A genuinely deadly virus would kill a hell of lot more people without needing coexisting conditions to do the job.

The same scam is in place in Ireland: only 100 of the 1700 deaths were due to covid alone.

The average age of a covid death (84) is also crucial given the average life expectancy in Ireland is 80.

There is no need whatsoever for a vaccine based on the numbers alone, never mind the experimental and highly rushed nature of said vaccine.

auspicious

Will the companies providing said vaccinations stand by and recompense 'victims ' if the vaccines throw-up untoward, irreversible, detrimental effects after administration? That is to say there should be no get out clause with government if the undesirable happens.

FutureTeashock

auspicious wrote: »

Will the companies providing said vaccinations stand by and recompense 'victims ' if the vaccines throw-up untoward, irreversible, detrimental effects after administration? That is to say there should be no get out clause with government if the undesirable happens.

No chance.
Covid-19 vaccine makers lobby EU for legal protection

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/covid-19-vaccine-makers-lobby-eu-for-legal-protection-1.4339157

patnor1011

King Mob wrote: »

But it has been debunked.
It's pretty obvious how it's been debunked.

Of the other 94% percent of cases of people who died with Corona, what were the other reasons given on the death cert?

On American death certs in particular, the way they fill them out often includes multiple things.
For example: they would give the cause of death as "respiratory failure" with Corona given in the next line, which would mean that it was brought on by the virus.

According to you and the conspiracy theory you're presenting such a person just died randomly of respiratory failure and them having Corona virus was just a wacky coincidence.

This is a silly thing to believe.

So please provide a breakdown of the other 94% of the people listed and show that they all died of stuff unrelated from Corona virus.
If you can't provide such a breakdown, then your claim is debunked.

Nope. Your theory is debunked by data from New York for example. Wjile I can not supply you with couple thousands of death certificates for you to study here is a breakdown for you:

When analyzing the breakdown of deaths by age and condition, we can observe how, out of 15,230 confirmed deaths in New York City up to May 12, only 690 (4.5% of all deaths) occurred in patients under the age of 65 who did not have an underlying medical condition (or for which it is unknown whether they had or did not have an underlying condition).

Underlying illnesses include Diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease, GI/Liver Disease, and Obesity [source]

Under 65-year-old (0.09% CMR to date)
85.9% of the population (7,214,525 people out of 8,398,748) in New York City is under 65 years old according to the US Census Bureau, which indicates the percent of persons 65 years old and over in New York City as being 14.1% [source].

We don't know what percentage of the population in this age group has an underlying condition, so at this time we are not able to accurately estimate the fatality rate for the under 65 years old and healthy.

But we can calculate it for the entire population under 65 years old (both healthy and unhealthy): with 6,188 deaths (26% of the total deaths in all age groups) occurring in this age group, of which 5,498 deaths (89%) in patients with a known underlying condition, the crude mortality rate to date will correspond to 6,188 / 7,214,525 = 0.09% CMR, or 86 deaths per 100,000 population (compared to 0.28% and 279 deaths per 100,000 for the general population).

So far there has been 1 death every 1,166 people under 65 years old (compared to 1 death every 358 people in the general population). And 89% of the times, the person who died had one or more underlying medical conditions.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-daily-data-summary-deaths-05132020-1.pdf

So stating that if there are no death certificates at hand for everyone to see they all died from corona is silly too.
Why did you do this?
Do you think this is an honest tactic?
Why do you have to resort to things like this?

King Mob

FutureTeashock wrote: »

A genuinely deadly virus would kill a hell of lot more people without needing coexisting conditions to do the job.

The same scam is in place in Ireland: only 100 of the 1700 deaths were due to covid alone.

The average age of a covid death (84) is also crucial given the average life expectancy in Ireland is 80.

There is no need whatsoever for a vaccine based on the numbers alone, never mind the experimental and highly rushed nature of said vaccine.

Yea sorry, once again you guys have just dodged points you can't address.

Why do you do this?

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

Nope. Your theory is debunked by data from New York for example. Wjile I can not supply you with couple thousands of death certificates for you to study here is a breakdown for you:

But the claim is coming from the CDC data solely.
So if the claim is "the CDC data shows that only 6% of people died of Corona virus" then the data must show that the remaining 94% of people must have died from things completely separately from Corona virus and that the Corona virus had no role in their deaths.

But that's not what the CDC data says, is it?

Similarly you are trying to move the goalposts from the original claim I was addressing.
You are now arguing that of those 94% of deaths they are all (or a majority) caused by underlying conditions.
Since that's the case please show in the CDC data where is says that.
But I don't think it says that either.

You also argue that any sort of underlying condition would make the death not count.
But your list includes things like obesity, which is very very common.
At the same time your list of discounting underlying conditions is so wide open and broad it's would include huge chunks of people anyway.

So if you include all the old people and all of the people you are discounting for their underlying conditions, what percentage of the remaining population is "healthy"?
I suspect it's lower than you think.

patnor1011 wrote: »

So stating that if there are no death certificates at hand for everyone to see they all died from corona is silly too.
Why did you do this?
Do you think this is an honest tactic?
Why do you have to resort to things like this?

That wouldn't be an honest tactic.
But that's not what I said or I'm saying.

FutureTeashock

This is truly shocking!:eek:



Internal document reveals Covid-19 vaccine trial participant's serious symptoms

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/09/17/covid-19-vaccine-trial-astrazeneca-participant-symptoms-cohen-dnt-ebof-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

patnor1011

King Mob wrote: »

You are now arguing that of those 94% of deaths they are all (or a majority) caused by underlying conditions.

I did not say that. I said that majority of the people who died with covid had one or more serious underlying health issues.

King Mob wrote: »

You also argue that any sort of underlying condition would make the death not count.

Nope. I did not say that either.

King Mob wrote: »

But your list includes things like obesity, which is very very common.

Yes, primarily in western countries. It is also one of the factors determining your outcome when infected with corona virus. Not only that, obese people fare bad with any other medical condition. Also have hard time to tie their shoelaces. Believe me I know. I am overweight.

King Mob wrote: »

At the same time your list of discounting underlying conditions is so wide open and broad it's would include huge chunks of people anyway.

Well, it is not my list. It is list compiled by: The Official Website of the City of New York
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-daily-data-summary-deaths-05132020-1.pdf

King Mob wrote: »

So if you include all the old people and all of the people you are discounting for their underlying conditions, what percentage of the remaining population is "healthy"?

Not a lot in NY and not a lot in ireland mainly when obesity is concerned. But I would go out of a limb here saying tha I do not think you are correct lumping "all the old people" with people with underlying conditions. I know a lot of old people who are healthy and also few who had covid and beat it without any problem.

King Mob wrote: »

I suspect it's lower than you think.

I have no illusions about that. Not when I look in the mirror or at the people who surrounds me pretty much anywhere I go. Our obsession with fast food make it easier for covid to inconvenience us. Are all obese people going to die when infected? Absolutely not.

patnor1011

FutureTeashock wrote: »

This is truly shocking!:eek:



Internal document reveals Covid-19 vaccine trial participant's serious symptoms

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/09/17/covid-19-vaccine-trial-astrazeneca-participant-symptoms-cohen-dnt-ebof-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

Well stuff like that happens. That is why more time is needed when testing and even more time is needed to asses any future complications. Years, not months.

I know it is unpopular here but so far the only one with credible results is the Russian one. We will see how effective it will be and if there will not be some delayed complications it looks like a winner so far anyway.
We know very little about chinese vaccines and western vaccines are still in development.