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Government urged to drop novels with 'racial slurs' from Junior Cert syllabus

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    #62
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I actually think movements such as blm should be a part of the curriculum, do kids truly connect with books such as mocking bird, and is the curriculum truly designed to suit us adults more so? Younger generations are different, they see the world differently, they want a different world than us adults

    It is an english course not a civics or politics course.


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    #63
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I'm sure you'd change your tune if these kids started bringing up crime statistics in America.

    Depends. Would your version go beyond "blacks are criminals" and discuss the causes of the issues in American society?


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    #64
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It is an english course not a civics or politics course.

    Maybe it's time to move on from old books and writing essays about them and educate kids about the world? Their homework can be to choose and read books.


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    #65
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Maybe it's time to move on from old books and writing essays about them and educate kids about the world? Their homework can be to choose and read books.

    is that not what a civics course is for?


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    #66
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    Should have the entire Famous Five and The Secret Seven catalogue on the syllabus. Will tell the kids everything they need to know in life:-

    - Bring a torch everywhere with you. Never know when you're going to run into an adventure (especially where there are lighthouses and tunnels.

    - Same with rubber soled shoes.

    - Great lessons on how to get out of locked rooms

    - For some unexplained reason, drink infinite amounts of lemonade on warm summer days.

    - There's nothing wrong with a girl trying to dress and look like a boy and getting offended if referred to as a girl.


    Legends. All of them.


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    #67
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    White savour teachers will save the little kideens and make it all better.


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    #68
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    flasher0030 wrote: »
    Should have the entire Famous Five and The Secret Seven catalogue on the syllabus. Will tell the kids everything they need to know in life:-

    - Bring a torch everywhere with you. Never know when you're going to run into an adventure (especially where there are lighthouses and tunnels.

    - Same with rubber soled shoes.

    - Great lessons on how to get out of locked rooms

    - For some unexplained reason, drink infinite amounts of lemonade on warm summer days.

    - There's nothing wrong with a girl trying to dress and look like a boy and getting offended if referred to as a girl.


    Legends. All of them.

    Ginger beer.


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    #69
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Ginger beer.

    Lashings and lashings of ginger beer


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    #70
    8-10
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    No one said it was. His point was in relation to wider society. It is wider society that is being used to decide these matters, he's simply point out the hypocrisy.

    Wider society might be driving attention to these matters, but in this case it's the Department of Education who are deciding based on letters it received. Nothing to do with music.

    It's about time they looked at overhauling the reading list so it's of less concern what drove the change. The Junior and Leaving Certs are both inadequate in my view and slow to change


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    #71
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    A degree from any Western University isn't going to be worth anything in a few years if they keep watering down curriculum and removing "problematic" material.


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    #72
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Mr. Karate wrote: »
    A degree from any Western University isn't going to be worth anything in a few years if they keep watering down curriculum and removing "problematic" material.

    is it truly worth anything now, many leave our educational system lacking critical life skills, and are poorly prepared for adulthood


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    #73
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,312 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    is it truly worth anything now, many leave our educational system lacking critical life skills, and are poorly prepared for adulthood

    Critical life skills? Like those that parents teach?

    An overwhelming majority of adults functioning pretty well would tend to contradict your point.


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    #74
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    is it truly worth anything now, many leave our educational system lacking critical life skills, and are poorly prepared for adulthood

    They are all adults by the time they leave and most of them are before they start . It is not the job of a University to impart critical life skills. The roll of the University is to deliver academic courses to degree level and above.


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    #75
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Ginger beer.

    Oh ya :o:o


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    #76
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    endacl wrote: »
    Critical life skills? Like those that parents teach?

    An overwhelming majority of adults functioning pretty well would tend to contradict your point.

    I always think this too. Is there a widespread phenomenon of people failing to function as an adult that I'm missing? Saying people are "unprepared for adulthood" is a vacuous non-fact that people trot out as if it means anything.


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    #77
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,654 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    is that not what a civics course is for?

    Its CSPE now


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    #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Its CSPE now

    whatever they are calling it now it doesn't belong in an english class.


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    #79
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    endacl wrote: »
    Critical life skills? Like those that parents teach?

    An overwhelming majority of adults functioning pretty well would tend to contradict your point.

    our modern society has changed radically, since the design of our educational system, which hasnt changed much in order to reflect this radical change. our system was ultimately designed when most homes had only one main income, this is generally no longer the case, most homes now needing at least two full time workers to maintain the home, our system doesnt reflect this at all, or reflects it very poorly.

    you ll find many normalised dysfunctional behaviors such as eating disorders, alcohol and illegal drugs consumption etc etc, are signs of adults not truly functioning pretty well, we all know mental health issues are on the rise, this is also another sign of adults not functioning pretty well...
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    They are all adults by the time they leave and most of them are before they start . It is not the job of a University to impart critical life skills. The roll of the University is to deliver academic courses to degree level and above.

    our educational system in fact should have a multi function, including delivery of academic training, working life preparation, critical life skill training etc etc. drop out rates are relatively high in many areas of study at third level, particularly at the early stages of many courses, another sign of system failure
    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    I always think this too. Is there a widespread phenomenon of people failing to function as an adult that I'm missing? Saying people are "unprepared for adulthood" is a vacuous non-fact that people trot out as if it means anything.

    ...see above


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    #80
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    If they really have to replace Mockingbird, Paul Beatty'S THE SELLOUT, is a modern novel by an African American, that deals very well with contemporary issues. The race baiting hucksters won't like it


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    #81
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    TheBlackPill wrote: »
    If they really have to replace Mockingbird, Paul Beatty'S THE SELLOUT, is a modern novel by an African American, that deals very well with contemporary issues. The race baiting hucksters won't like it


    Honestly, I was fairly underwhelmed with The Sellout. It had its moments but a lot of the jokes fell flat and the ending just kind of fizzled out. I bought the book expecting to like it too.


    Never cared that much about TKAM, but I've always liked Steinbeck's work. Of Mice and Men is a good gateway to his longer books like the Grapes of Wrath. I expect his legacy will endure far longer than the zeitgeisty ****e being pushed to replace it.


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    #82
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Honestly, I was fairly underwhelmed with The Sellout. It had its moments but a lot of the jokes fell flat and the ending just kind of fizzled out. I bought the book expecting to like it too.


    Never cared that much about TKAM, but I've always liked Steinbeck's work. Of Mice and Men is a good gateway to his longer books like the Grapes of Wrath. I expect his legacy will endure far longer than the zeitgeisty ****e being pushed to replace it.
    Really liked the Sellout. Just noted the same publisher released Marlon james A brief hx of 7 killings. Now that is epic.


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    #83
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    8-10 wrote: »
    I don't think hip hop is on the Leaving Cert syllabus

    Give it time. The way Western society, culture and education is going it might well be at some point.


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    #84
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Threads merged, title updated

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #85
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Lashings and lashings of ginger beer

    Ginger Beer would be a great name for a Dominatrix. Lashings indeed...


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    #86
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Scuid Mhór wrote: »
    I've never read Of Mice and Men but To Kill A Mockingbird should absolutely be removed from the educational curriculum. I remember having to study it when I was doing my Junior Certificate. I read it cover to cover several times that year and sure, it captured a demented time and place in American history through the prism of children's innocence and offered the personification of the natural law in Atticus Finch and provided a moral lesson in justice and the law not necessarily always being synonymous with one another, but not once, on any page, did Ms Lee detail how one is supposed to kill a mockingbird. I always thought this was highly suspect and, if I may be so bold, false advertising.


    If you think that's bad, then I strongly advise you never to watch the Irish movie called "Eat the Peach" - a film in which absolutely no fruit eating of any kind occurs.


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    #87
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    As Aristotle always urged his followers: 'If it ain't woke, don't fix it.'


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    #88
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Ginger Beer would be a great name for a Dominatrix. Lashings indeed...

    I shall keep that in mind....


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    #89
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    is it truly worth anything now, many leave our educational system lacking critical life skills, and are poorly prepared for adulthood

    Don't know about here, but in the US the School system is nothing but overglorified propaganda centres for decades.


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    #90
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Mocking bird certainly is a powerful book, but the whole curriculum needs a major overhaul, to drag it out of the 20th century!
    Of Mice and Men is also excellent and written by a Nobel Prize winner. It's also very short and students are really saved the trouble of reading it by some excellent screen adaptations. I'd much rather see an end to these "feelings" towards literature and a return to actually analysing them.


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    #91
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    our modern society has changed radically, since the design of our educational system, which hasnt changed much in order to reflect this radical change. our system was ultimately designed when most homes had only one main income, this is generally no longer the case, most homes now needing at least two full time workers to maintain the home, our system doesnt reflect this at all, or reflects it very poorly.

    you ll find many normalised dysfunctional behaviors such as eating disorders, alcohol and illegal drugs consumption etc etc, are signs of adults not truly functioning pretty well, we all know mental health issues are on the rise, this is also another sign of adults not functioning pretty well...



    our educational system in fact should have a multi function, including delivery of academic training, working life preparation, critical life skill training etc etc. drop out rates are relatively high in many areas of study at third level, particularly at the early stages of many courses, another sign of system failure



    ...see above

    A University is for adults to study particular subjects and specialities to degree level and to facilitate independent study and research at post graduate level. The people who attend are adults. It's function is not to teach people how to be grown ups. Most of us figure that out by ourselves, many, incidentally, while attending University.


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